Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution

[Bunk]

You are all getting quite amusing in this thread. I think hal sprained his brain during his last post.

Personally, I've made a point of checking labels for high cholesteral when I shop, and avoiding those items. I'm limiting myself to overly fatty things likes sausage to no more than once a week. I started buying the odd bottle of high fibre V8 for the mornings (it tastes palatable if its cold enough). I've cut down the high fat junk snacks like chips to weekends only. I've actually adjusted to drinking 1% milk. I buy far more chicken and fish than I do beef and pork.

I still don't buy fresh veggies as often as I should, which is silly because I actually really like things like broccoli. Unfortunately, my favoriite veggies are the most expensive ones, like artichokes and asparagus. I do try to cook meals from scratch at least three times a week. Doesn't really matter though, apparently I am going to soon die of mercury poisoning from all the Sushi I eat.

As to the specific topic, douche or not, at least Oliver has people talking about this stuff. It really comes down to changing people's base attitude towards food, and that really is not likely to happen anytime soon in corporate america, because big corporations don't make money off of locally farmed produce. Oliver is a step in the right direction, but until you get Fox news telling middle America that eating crap makes Baby Jesus Cry, you guys are gonna have a hell of a time changing things.

[Paelos]

Pretty much any doctor will tell you the same things about your eating habits for the past 20 years.

Eat more fruits and vegetables with an emphasis on leafy greens.
Stay away from white flour and sugars, eat more whole grains.
Exercise 3 times a week for at least 30 minutes.
Stay away from high fat foods and proteins, eat more fish and chicken.
Don't eat fried crap.

I mean there's a lot of other wacky stuff we toss in there, but hell, if you just did those things, you're pretty much gold.

[Ironwood]

Which is true, of course, but let's all not forget the other salient fact that a brain aneurysm or any one of a number of horrible, horrible and unpreventable accidents can kill you stone dead in a heartbeat.

So, don't be afraid to live a little either.

You fucking Fatties.

[K9]

I eat pretty terribly, but I cycle ~6 miles per day and gym for 1.5-2hrs 2-3 times a week, and it seems to balance out. I get a lot of enjoyment out of my food.

[Malakili]

So, don't be afraid to live a little either.

Joking aside, this attitude is odd to me.  I feel like SHIT after I eat stuff that is bad for me.  Stomach aches, lethargic, etc.  I always find it odd that people don't seem to derive enjoyment from eating healthy foods and seem to think that its some kind of self flagellation to eat vegetables.

[HaemishM]

People enjoy what their bodies are trained to eat - and your bodies get trained to eat what you ate as a kid. Shifting gears, especially later in life, is downright hard because the brain has linked certain tastes to certain feelings, both good and bad. People who have not been eating fatty, salty, processed, meaty foods who try to eat a Big Mac are going to feel like shit because their bodies aren't used to it. People who are used to it don't have the same reactions.

[K9]

I don't think Ironwood is taking about McDonalds here, or avoiding vegetables. You couldn't pay me to stop eating fruit and veg, but neither could you deter me from all thee other good stuff: steak, chorizo, dark sugar on my porridge, chocolate, scallops, butter, fudge etc etc. I can also only tolerate fast food about once every few months, for a given type of fast food. I fucking love a good kebab, filled with greasy meat off the hibachi, pickles, tomatoes, garlic and chilli sauce, maybe some hummous and lettuce too. I can barely tolerate food from Burger King and their ilk though. Sometimes I will get a craving to sit down and eat a four-person portion of profiteroles, but I really don't give a fuck since I pay it back hard in the exercise I do, and I also consume a ton of fruit and veg.

I accept some people do not enjoy or cannot handle rich food; but the implication that the only right way to eat is a very puritanical way doesn't carry any weight with me.

[Mrbloodworth]

Just a bit of a tangent, to something Haem said: Processed supermarket food tastes like shit. Or at least it does to me, someone who grew up eating brown rice and beans and miso soup, and had parents who didn't let him eat processed food and sugars.

I haven't been a vegetarian eating such a nutjob diet for over 15 years, but I am still very sensitive to rich foods (like chocolate cake) and meats. I have a physical response to a lot of stuff that my body isn't as familiar with as other (can't eat any pig, can't eat meat pies, cream and dairy heavy stuff makes me feel ugh etc).

Point is: Diet and habit are very very hard to change, and expecting the bodies of children to be able to happily adjust between different food at school at home is a big thing. You're not gong to get kids who grew up on the reverse diet to mine to enjoy 'healthy' lunches just by getting Jamie to stick his head in, you need the parents to address fundamental changes - which can be very very hard.

I think targeting schools is a futile exercise to be honest, but perhaps in terms of raising awareness it is a good trigger point.

Isn't that what his training schools are all about? Change the culture and educate for the next generation?

[Wasted]

If the food at these schools are so crap is it such a big deal to give your kids a packed lunch?

Cafeterias are so foreign to me, we have school canteens here but generally getting money for a lunch order was a special treat (or a running too late in the morning to make lunch solution).  We give our kids a sandwich, piece of fruit and another snack like plain chips/muesli bar for their lunches. 

i don't even know properly how school cafeteria's work like how I see them in movies.  Do you pay each meal or is it free for the kids and paid with the school fees?

[Ironwood]

Over here, the tax subsidise the school food.

So if you do the packed lunch, you're paying twice.  Furthermore, the once you pay is paying for shite that's killing people.

It's a worry.

[Malakili]

If the food at these schools are so crap is it such a big deal to give your kids a packed lunch?

Cafeterias are so foreign to me, we have school canteens here but generally getting money for a lunch order was a special treat (or a running too late in the morning to make lunch solution).  We give our kids a sandwich, piece of fruit and another snack like plain chips/muesli bar for their lunches. 

i don't even know properly how school cafeteria's work like how I see them in movies.  Do you pay each meal or is it free for the kids and paid with the school fees?

The problem with your first statement is EXACTLY the one Oliver is trying to overcome.  The families that know better/care already do this, but this is about increasing awareness and creating a different culture, and to do this you really need to reach the people who don't already do that.

Usually you have to pay for school lunches, I don't know how much it costs these days or how much of the cost is subsidized in the normal price.  They do have fully subsidized plans for kids that have a hard time affording food.  I imagine all this varies by district though, I'm just remembering how it was when I was in school.

[Mrbloodworth]

In LA, they spend 77c per child. 

[Wasted]

The problem with your first statement is EXACTLY the one Oliver is trying to overcome.  The families that know better/care already do this, but this is about increasing awareness and creating a different culture, and to do this you really need to reach the people who don't already do that.

Yeah the culture here (AUS) seems very different, the teachers are very involved in promoting healthy eating.  The whole time so far that our kids have been going to school (They are 7 and 9) they have been required to bring at least one piece of fruit with their lunches, and too much crap gets a note from the teacher.  Hand in hand there has also been been increases in the PE components of the curriculum and increasing the amount of exercise the kids get.  

I still see lots of fat kids though.

[Paelos]

Can we all just agree that this is a case of the stupid lazy people ruining it for the rest of us, as usual?

[HaemishM]

Can we all just agree that this is a case of the stupid lazy people ruining it for the rest of us, as usual?

No, because that's only one part of the equation. The part Oliver is running smack dab into is the systemic problems - corruption in the school board, reluctance to spend money on education in general, which translates into decreased budget for school lunches, as well as the HUGE problem of how most of our food is grown, produced, packaged and sold in order to make the food cheaper. Things like the pink slime process, lack of proper space for animals to move or breathe, overuse of pesticides, overuse of hormones without proper testing for the effects of human consumption, preponderance of untested sweeteners like high fructose corn syrup, overuse of preservatives, transfats and on and on and fucking on.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, all those recent E Coli outbreaks? Directly related to our farming system. Cows covered in shit from birth to slaughter.

[Xanthippe]

In LA, they spend 77c per child. 

Can't be.  Maybe the District pays that much, but it's on top of the money they get from the Feds, and the money from the kids who pay for lunch gets figured in as well.

"In July 2008, the USDA announced the new federal reimbursement rates for the NSLP for the 2008-09 school year: $2.57 for free lunches, $2.17 for reduced-price lunches, and 24 cents for paid lunches in the 48 contiguous states serving less than 60% free and reduced-price lunches."  More here on that.

[Mrbloodworth]

Its 77c per child.  Ill find the articles I read about it, it was a LA times piece about the show, and the school food.

EDIT:

In response, the district invited reporters Wednesday to its Eastside food preparation facility. District officials said they provided students with fresh and healthy meals -- a herculean task, considering the volumes of meals they serve and that they have only 77 cents per meal with which to do it.

Link

Oliver advocates fresh foods, organic if possible, and reconnecting with family values, social values, along with that "invisible food education." Cook a meal together, grow food and share it, try eating a fresh-cooked chicken, instead of low-quality prepackaged processed food. The same can be done in schools, he said.

"It's actually possible on a fairly healthy budget," he said. "They say in LA (schools) it's about 77 cents on the plate. In New York (schools), it is about 96 cents on the plate. ... It's quite easy to upgrade to free-range eggs and things like organic milk without really upsetting the budget."

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=275&articleid=20110412_275_D1_CUTLIN837168&allcom=1

Link2

[Xanthippe]

Over here, the tax subsidise the school food.

So if you do the packed lunch, you're paying twice.  Furthermore, the once you pay is paying for shite that's killing people.

It's a worry.

But it's a heck of a lot easier to pack lunch for your kids than it is to revamp the entire school lunch program.  

In the states, unless you qualify for free- or reduced rate- lunches, you pay twice anyway. I can feed my kids cheaper and healthier than the school does (last year it was $4.00, after going up from $2.50 after hiring the consultant who said to feed kids fresh local foods, and it was so not worth it).

[Xanthippe]

Its 77c per child.  Ill find the articles I read about it, it was a LA times piece about the show, and the school food.

EDIT:

In response, the district invited reporters Wednesday to its Eastside food preparation facility. District officials said they provided students with fresh and healthy meals -- a herculean task, considering the volumes of meals they serve and that they have only 77 cents per meal with which to do it.

Link

Yes, but they get money from the USDA for the school lunch program.  So that's what the District spends, but that's added to the pot of money they get from the Feds, not the entire amount spent.  If it was, I guarantee you the kids would be eating rice and beans, and nothing more.

[Mrbloodworth]

The 77 cents is described as "On the plate, per meal". I assume they get huge bulk discounts from vendors, we are not talking about the things you and i find on the shelves. We are talking about mass produced junk. A "waffle" in a bag like cots a few cents. Especially when you buy 600k a day.

Yes, but they get money from the USDA for the school lunch program.

And it goes right to the venders who make minimum requirement items.

[Nebu]

Yes, but they get money from the USDA for the school lunch program.  So that's what the District spends, but that's added to the pot of money they get from the Feds, not the entire amount spent.  If it was, I guarantee you the kids would be eating rice and beans, and nothing more.

Ironically, rice and beans would be healthier than what they currently get for lunch.  

[Numtini]

Free range eggs and organic milk? Oliver comes off as completely out of touch bordering on insanity.

We can't get past deep fried high fructose corn syrup and he's talking about organic milk?

It's like some kind of parody.

[Ironwood]

But it's a heck of a lot easier to pack lunch for your kids than it is to revamp the entire school lunch program.  

But it's a heck of a lot easier to revamp the entire school lunch program than it is to do away with Taxes.

[Numtini]

I'm actually a skeptic on how easily things can be revamped. The key is finding foods that are health and the kids will eat. We had healthy food when I was a kid and it all went into the bin because it was disgusting. Finding people who can mass prep good food without using fast food techniques of boosting flavor (ie, loads of fat) is hard particularly when you're swimming against the national tide on this stuff.

[Xanthippe]

The 77 cents is described as "On the plate, per meal". I assume they get huge bulk discounts from vendors, we are not talking about the things you and i find on the shelves. We are talking about mass produced junk. A "waffle" in a bag like cots a few cents. Especially when you buy 600k a day.

Yes, but they get money from the USDA for the school lunch program.

And it goes right to the venders who make minimum requirement items.

Of course it goes to the vendors.  Schools haven't made lunches on-site since the dark ages when I went to school 4 decades ago.  Why?  Costs are too high for salaries and benefits for state employees to be able to provide nutritional, high quality lunch to kids.  Heck, vendors are struggling to do that as well.  

School Districts would rather spend their budget on education.  As a parent and a taxpayer, I applaud them for that, since that is why we have school districts in the first place.  Parents ought to be able to feed their kids as a priority over everything else.  If they do not do so, they are the definition of loser parents. (/rant about free lunch kids getting dropped off to school by their parents in new Cadillac Escalades deleted - no not the norm but it still pisses me off).

Minutiae.  The 77 cents gets added to the reimbursements they get from the USDA.  So, lunches cost a total of:

Free lunches: $2.57 plus 77cents
Reduced rate lunches: $2.17 plus 77cents
Paid lunches: $0.24 plus 77cents

The USDA also allows:
Free snacks: $0.71
Reduced-price snacks: $0.35
Paid snacks: $0.06

In addition to these funds, the USDA provides commodity foods (usually dairy):
In addition to cash reimbursements, schools are entitled by law to receive commodity foods, called
"entitlement" foods, at a value of 20.75 cents for each meal served in Fiscal Year 2008-2009.
Schools can also get "bonus" commodities as they are available from surplus agricultural stocks.

(Above taken from here, including link to NSLPFactSheet.pdf)  

Note:  "Café LA is supported solely by federal and state reimbursements for meals served."  The lion's share of the cost of the school lunch program is from the USDA, and also largely subsidized by those who pay full-price.

Long way of saying that although the LASD (one of the worst managed districts in the country) only spends 77 cents per student lunch, the student lunches being provided cost a great deal more than that.

[Malakili]

I'm actually a skeptic on how easily things can be revamped. The key is finding foods that are health and the kids will eat. We had healthy food when I was a kid and it all went into the bin because it was disgusting. Finding people who can mass prep good food without using fast food techniques of boosting flavor (ie, loads of fat) is hard particularly when you're swimming against the national tide on this stuff.

This is missing the point entirely.  The point here is to promote a culture of eating such that kids actually get used to eating healthy from the beginning, so its not such a hard thing to do later.  Kids don't magically hate vegetables, hell I LOVED fruits and vegetables as a kid - because they were the snacks we had and were normal in my household. Sure, I liked candy too,  to just say "oh kids don't eat it because it doesn't taste good" is to miss the point entirely.  

[KallDrexx]

If the food at these schools are so crap is it such a big deal to give your kids a packed lunch?

When I was in high school (99-03), to get a lunch from the school cafeteria cost $1.39.  Not sure how a parent is going to pack a school lunch for their kids that is healthy and comes anywhere close to that on a regular basis.

[Malakili]

If the food at these schools are so crap is it such a big deal to give your kids a packed lunch?

When I was in high school (99-03), to get a lunch from the school cafeteria cost $1.39.  Not sure how a parent is going to pack a school lunch for their kids that is healthy and comes anywhere close to that on a regular basis.

Peanut Butter and Jelly and an apple or banana was my staple growing up.  Cheap and pretty good for you.

[Xanthippe]

This is missing the point entirely.  The point here is to promote a culture of eating such that kids actually get used to eating healthy from the beginning, so its not such a hard thing to do later.  Kids don't magically hate vegetables, hell I LOVED fruits and vegetables as a kid - because they were the snacks we had and were normal in my household. Sure, I liked candy too,  to just say "oh kids don't eat it because it doesn't taste good" is to miss the point entirely.  

But your parents aren't the norm, any more than you are.

Numtini is right.  Most kids don't eat carrots.  They end up in the trash.  It's amazing how much good food ends up in the trash.

Simply providing the choices isn't enough, but even if you were to grab a person and force them to watch nutritional videos (a la Clockwork Orange) it won't fix the situation.  

Parents and the choices they make - good and bad - influence children a thousand times more than what they learn at school.  Want to change nutrition in school?  Target the parents.  And good luck with that.

[KallDrexx]

Peanut Butter and Jelly and an apple or banana was my staple growing up.  Cheap and pretty good for you.

Which is pretty much what I ate because I'm not picky, but I hated eating the same thing every day while watching all my friends get to choose between pizza or the 4-5 other things they had to choose from on a regular basis.  Hell, even as an adult I don't like eating the same thing over and over again and like to vary it up, but it's hard to do if you are trying to be healthy and beat a $1.39 price point.

Btw that $1.39 also included a carton of milk, so it wasn't just food you got for that price.  

[Numtini]

This is missing the point entirely.  The point here is to promote a culture of eating such that kids actually get used to eating healthy from the beginning, so its not such a hard thing to do later.

No, I understand the concept, I'm disagreeing on where an intervention can be effective. I think school lunches are probably already too late, particularly with the entire food-industrial complex stacked against them. Change the food culture of the country and school lunches will follow. Toss the current budget at a school cafeterias in the current food climate and tell them to serve healthy food and based on my experiences with healthy pre-contractor lunches, you will see most of the healthy food go straight to the bins.

On packed lunches, at least back in my day, it was almost a complete class division between middle class kids with packed lunches and working/poverty class kids with school lunch. I don't know if that's changed as everyone bought lunch on pizza day and checking the old NHS website, now thanks to contracting out food, every day is pizza day. Literally.

[Malakili]

This is missing the point entirely.  The point here is to promote a culture of eating such that kids actually get used to eating healthy from the beginning, so its not such a hard thing to do later.  Kids don't magically hate vegetables, hell I LOVED fruits and vegetables as a kid - because they were the snacks we had and were normal in my household. Sure, I liked candy too,  to just say "oh kids don't eat it because it doesn't taste good" is to miss the point entirely.  

But your parents aren't the norm, any more than you are.

Numtini is right.  Most kids don't eat carrots.  They end up in the trash.  It's amazing how much good food ends up in the trash.

Simply providing the choices isn't enough, but even if you were to grab a person and force them to watch nutritional videos (a la Clockwork Orange) it won't fix the situation.  

Parents and the choices they make - good and bad - influence children a thousand times more than what they learn at school.  Want to change nutrition in school?  Target the parents.  And good luck with that.

Yes and no.  This isn't just baout offering carrots with school lunches, this is making it a deliberate part of education in very young kids.   Its about having part of your school day set aside to learn about food and talk about food, and not just slapping healthy choices into school lunches.    This thread has been all over the place, especially with the emphasis on school lunch contents that it is missing the point that Oliver doesn't want just healthier choices, he wants food education.  And that CAN make a difference even if they choices aren't great athome

[Mrbloodworth]

This is missing the point entirely.  The point here is to promote a culture of eating such that kids actually get used to eating healthy from the beginning, so its not such a hard thing to do later.  Kids don't magically hate vegetables, hell I LOVED fruits and vegetables as a kid - because they were the snacks we had and were normal in my household. Sure, I liked candy too,  to just say "oh kids don't eat it because it doesn't taste good" is to miss the point entirely.  

But your parents aren't the norm, any more than you are.

Numtini is right.  Most kids don't eat carrots.  They end up in the trash.  It's amazing how much good food ends up in the trash.

Simply providing the choices isn't enough, but even if you were to grab a person and force them to watch nutritional videos (a la Clockwork Orange) it won't fix the situation.  

Parents and the choices they make - good and bad - influence children a thousand times more than what they learn at school.  Want to change nutrition in school?  Target the parents.  And good luck with that.

Yes and no.  This isn't just baout offering carrots with school lunches, this is making it a deliberate part of education in very young kids.   Its about having part of your school day set aside to learn about food and talk about food, and not just slapping healthy choices into school lunches.    This thread has been all over the place, especially with the emphasis on school lunch contents that it is missing the point that Oliver doesn't want just healthier choices, he wants food education.  And that CAN make a difference even if they choices aren't great athome

People do seem to forget this is a multi-pronged movement.

One of the issues raised by a mother on the show was that how can she give healthy food to her children, when not only does she have to fight children's inherent hate of broccoli, but she also has to fight the fact that when he goes to school, he can have a Tony's pizza with gravy on top. 3 times a week.

[Xanthippe]

Yes and no.  This isn't just baout offering carrots with school lunches, this is making it a deliberate part of education in very young kids.   Its about having part of your school day set aside to learn about food and talk about food, and not just slapping healthy choices into school lunches.    This thread has been all over the place, especially with the emphasis on school lunch contents that it is missing the point that Oliver doesn't want just healthier choices, he wants food education.  And that CAN make a difference even if they choices aren't great athome

You do have a good point here, but I wonder how sticky the message is when it goes against everything a kid is learning in the home.  

Lady Bird Johnson's Keep America Beautiful campaign was awesome, and I believe it was one of a few factors in birthing the environmental movement that grew in the 70s.  Our school had a great many littering pick up days as a result. (I liked that a whole lot more that JFK's Fitness campaign).

My kids are being indoctrinated with Fast Food Nation, Food, Inc., An Inconvenient Truth, and similar such films, but then I live in an ultraliberal community (similar to Berkeley).  I wouldn't mind if the other sides were presented, but they aren't.  But I'm not going to swim up that stream, I indoctrinate my kids plenty at home.