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Author Topic: Preview of 1.2 - Lots of awesome changes and fixes  (Read 46631 times)
Simond
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Reply #35 on: April 22, 2011, 08:17:04 AM

Also:
Quote
* Many bosses have had a pass done to bring them in line with their intended difficulty, and to make them more fun for melee damage characters in general. In a number of cases, some encounters were more challenging than intended. These changes should also help with forming appropriately matched groups through the upcoming Looking for Group system.
(emphasis mine). Nice to have it confirmed rather than "We're looking into it".

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
March
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Reply #36 on: April 22, 2011, 09:22:53 AM

Heh... fuck you Blizzard:

* You may now hide your character’s shoulder armor in much the same way as the Hide Helmet option works.
Lantyssa
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Reply #37 on: April 22, 2011, 10:03:40 AM

Hahaha.  Appearance tab and hide shoulders.  That's my last major complaint about the game gone.  (Still not too interested in a DIKU, unfortunately.)

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Nebu
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Reply #38 on: April 22, 2011, 01:54:00 PM

Hahaha.  Appearance tab and hide shoulders.  That's my last major complaint about the game gone.  (Still not too interested in a DIKU, unfortunately.)

Come and join us on Dimroot, damnit!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Tannhauser
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Reply #39 on: April 22, 2011, 02:22:41 PM

I'll believe an appearance tab when I see it.  Blizzard hasn't done it so it must be impossible.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Sky
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Reply #40 on: April 22, 2011, 03:44:05 PM

Come and join us on Dimroot, damnit!
I'd consider it except for small things like money and time  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Lantyssa
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Reply #41 on: April 22, 2011, 11:27:07 PM

Ditto.  Plus I needed a change.  Been playing CoX using the month of time from when I bought Going Rogue on the $10 Steam sale.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Falconeer
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Reply #42 on: April 23, 2011, 08:00:09 AM

Slivers sound fascinating. Anyone has any idea what they will be like (other than a way to uncover a new raid instance)?

Tannhauser
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Reply #43 on: April 23, 2011, 08:10:54 AM

My thought was that they were mini-instances.  Which would be cool.

Edit:  They are 10-man raid instances.  I might be up for these if raids in Rift are better than in WoW.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 08:21:10 AM by Tannhauser »
Draegan
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Reply #44 on: April 23, 2011, 04:30:51 PM

Cadence wasn't nerfed, the patch note was a mistake.

Bards still suck though.

Edit to clarify:
A Bard's buffs don't suck, but playing a Bard is truly shit.  Essentially the more people you play with the worse off a Bard becomes.
Threash
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Reply #45 on: April 23, 2011, 05:47:05 PM

Man this appearance tab thing came out of fucking nowhere and is such a huge fuck you to WoW.  Trion continues to impress me.

I am the .00000001428%
Nebu
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Reply #46 on: April 23, 2011, 05:51:39 PM

Man this appearance tab thing came out of fucking nowhere and is such a huge fuck you to WoW.  Trion continues to impress me.

Are you not aware that Hartsman was an EQ2 developer?  Rift screams of EQ2 with artifacts, exploration, and cairns.  I assumed it would only be a matter of time until we got an appearance tab and housing.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Threash
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Reply #47 on: April 23, 2011, 06:05:23 PM

No i have no idea who he was and i never played EQ 2, although i hear it is the best game nobody plays.

I am the .00000001428%
Tannhauser
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Reply #48 on: April 23, 2011, 09:19:22 PM

Anyone know if LFG tool will be server-specific or what?

And I'm glad bards aren't getting nerfed. 
Shatter
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Reply #49 on: April 24, 2011, 07:33:41 AM

Anyone know if LFG tool will be server-specific or what?

And I'm glad bards aren't getting nerfed. 

Scott said months ago that it would be server specific only.  If that didnt work out then they would try it cross server.  Also glad they didnt nerf bards, I am already close enough to shit canning mine since its 1v1 cannon fodder.  The Sin/BD changes will definitely make me consider a new build if they turn out to be any good but the changes to those class seem sub par still compared to mages
Xanthippe
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Reply #50 on: April 25, 2011, 08:42:53 AM

Heh... fuck you Blizzard:

* You may now hide your character’s shoulder armor in much the same way as the Hide Helmet option works.

Indeed.

With an appearance tab.

 Thumbs up!

Xanthippe
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Reply #51 on: April 25, 2011, 08:50:23 AM

Cadence wasn't nerfed, the patch note was a mistake.

Bards still suck though.

Edit to clarify:
A Bard's buffs don't suck, but playing a Bard is truly shit.  Essentially the more people you play with the worse off a Bard becomes.

I don't understand this - "the more people you play with the worse off a Bard becomes."
Draegan
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Reply #52 on: April 25, 2011, 09:55:05 AM

Cadence wasn't nerfed, the patch note was a mistake.

Bards still suck though.

Edit to clarify:
A Bard's buffs don't suck, but playing a Bard is truly shit.  Essentially the more people you play with the worse off a Bard becomes.

I don't understand this - "the more people you play with the worse off a Bard becomes."

Bard buffs aren't unique, just slightly better.  The more people you bring with you the less unique you become.

Bards have anthems, of which you can only use one: Resistance, Armor, Combat Run Speed, Ability Cost Redux
An Archon can cover armor and resistance.  And a Chloromancer can cover Ability Cost Redux (though not as well 10% vs. 13%).  So you no longer have a meaningful choice to make, you always have combat run speed on (which is unique and very good).

So that's once choice taken away from you.

Bards have Debuffs that increase physical and non-physical damage on the target.  But Archons (and a few other classes/souls) have the same debuffs that do the same thing, that last longer.

So that's another element that's taken from you.

Bards have Fanfares.  Fanfare of Power (+str/dex) is a 16 pt root ability and Knowledge (+int/wis) is a 40pt ability.  Why the hell they are so far apart in the root is beyond me.  In any case, the more people in your group the more you will need additional buffs.  It's a weak argument, but in any case, if you have to put 40 pts in Bard, it takes away some interesting combinations of playing a Half Bard/Half Ranger and still bring 99% of the buffs (minus knowledge)

Bard's healing is pretty small.  So you're pretty much taking care of AOE splash/environmental damage.  Coda of Restoration heals pretty decently but you need to use a 2 second channel and another ability to prep it so it's not reactionary unless you sit there at 5CP spamming cadence waiting for it.  That being said, the more people in the group, the more healers you will have.  Your healing will be trumped by clerics and chloromancers pretty easily.

In any case, the more people in the group the larger the opportunity someone brings your buffs as well and better ones.  So in the end you're just casting the same 5 Motifs every 30 seconds.  Then spamming cadence and coda of restoration over and over.  Very boring and not very fun.  It's also tedious refreshing 30 second buffs throughout the whole fight.  

There is not strategy, or no intelligent input in playing the class.  Outside of using Virtuoso every 3 minutes, there is no direct ability that helps turn the tide of a battle or contributing in any large way.  Everything is pretty much passive.  You could play a Bard with a G15 and autofollow.

To clarify: Strictly a PVE perspective.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 09:57:14 AM by Draegan »
Threash
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Reply #53 on: April 25, 2011, 10:07:05 AM

I don't see how another class having a worse version of one of your buffs removes that choice from you.

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Draegan
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Reply #54 on: April 25, 2011, 10:11:44 AM

I don't see how another class having a worse version of one of your buffs removes that choice from you.

Because instead of saying, "Hmm in this fight should we use buff X or Y?" it's just, "Ok that guy's buff is nearly as good so just stick with buff X". 

There's never any need to switch a buff mid-fight or at least change buffs for different boss encounters.  Essentially the only Anthem a Bard is going to be using is Combat Run Speed because it's just that much better than 3% more ability cost reduction.
Shatter
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Reply #55 on: April 25, 2011, 12:44:36 PM

I have played Bard since Beta 1 and they are a weaker class at end game, although they start strong as other classes develop Bard is left behind.  While the argument is Bard is a support class many other classes do a bards job of support only better...Draegan pointed much of that out.  1V1 Bards are pretty much a joke without Virtuoso up and even then by the time 15 seconds runs out you will probably be dead.  If they dont want to change Bard dmg or heals I feel that bards should have much better buffs and debuffs or at least make them stack more.  Is it really overpowered to let a bard have 2 Fanfares up?  Keep in mind that while a bard at 50 does around 95-100dmg per tick off cadence(non-crit) other classes are doing thousands of dmg.  Here are some bard improvement ideas:

1)  Armor buff is a joke and needs a signifigant increase
2)  Allow fanfares to stack and increase motifs to 1 minute. 
3)  More / better debuffs
4)  Out of combat res
5)  Group shielding
6)  Increase the magic resistance of Anthem of Defiance
7)  WTF is a useless ability that "charms" 5 "creatures"(ie squirrels) a 36 f*cking talent?  Its useless all around and costs a retarded amount of point.  Replace it with something useful. 

Just some ideas. 
Draegan
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Reply #56 on: April 25, 2011, 12:55:05 PM

You can use all three fanfares at once.  Just group everyone who wants a specific fanfare away from each other.  Cast whatever fanfare you want and hit each group individually.  They don't stack, but you can get people to have whatever buff they want.

All you need to do is just play with line of sight.
Shatter
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Reply #57 on: April 26, 2011, 07:06:43 AM

You can use all three fanfares at once.  Just group everyone who wants a specific fanfare away from each other.  Cast whatever fanfare you want and hit each group individually.  They don't stack, but you can get people to have whatever buff they want.

All you need to do is just play with line of sight.

Bards are a bit of a cluster fuck in this game.  Where to start....ok Motifs.  5 of them that last 30 seconds.  By the time you cast all 5 you have 25 seconds left.  In PvP having to stop and cast motifs every 30 seconds means you are dead...they should be at least 1 minute and castable in stealth/conceal.  They should reduce them down to 2-3 only and still make them 1 minute so you dont spend your entire time pvping having to rebuff people every 25 seconds. 

Next up is Anthems.  Anthem of glory(armor) sucks.  500ish armor at level 50 is virtually useless.  The fact I have to cast this anthem for an armor buff and have to lose my run speed buff in the process which doesnt work in combat anyhow without spending a point in improved competence is stupid.  Anthem of Defiance...also sub par.  What they need to do is remove that shitty 36 point motif of encouragement that no one uses and replace it with a skill that allows the bard to stack buffs on themself like 2 fanfares and 2 anthems or something.  If a bard specs that far into the tree at least make it worthwhile. 

Im not sure what the vision is for Bards in this game.  Are they supposed to be a class that runs around and just spams buffs on everyone else vs taking part in actual combat and you know...having fun?
Zetor
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Reply #58 on: April 26, 2011, 07:21:11 AM

The Motif business reminds me of vanilla WOW paladins. "Have fun keeping 5minute buffs up on the entire 40man raid... hope you have decursive / pallypower / action prioritizer mod X!"  why so serious?

Simond
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Reply #59 on: April 26, 2011, 07:39:21 AM

They remind me of...bards. From EQ.   Ohhhhh, I see.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #60 on: April 26, 2011, 07:54:12 AM

They remind me of...bards. From EQ.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Yeah but what they fail to understand is that the eq bard while having one of the most punishing playstyles was also one of the most versatile classes if you were good at it. They were always wanted and very very useful to compensate for that spamming of buttons.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Draegan
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Reply #61 on: April 26, 2011, 08:45:14 AM

The Motif business reminds me of vanilla WOW paladins. "Have fun keeping 5minute buffs up on the entire 40man raid... hope you have decursive / pallypower / action prioritizer mod X!"  why so serious?

I would kill for Bard Motifs lasting 5 minutes.  Then I might be able to have fun in combat.  God forbid.
Maledict
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Reply #62 on: April 26, 2011, 08:50:41 AM

They remind me of...bards. From EQ.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Nah, bards in EQ were very different. Whilst you did have the stupid, extremely short duration buffs to keep up, any bard worth his salt was doing tons of other things as well. In particular, bard Cc was great and bard pulling was *amazing* - but hell to play on the wrists. I think they tried to give bards in Rift a bit of that (with the 8 second duration mezz), but it hasn't worked at all so all you have is the buff botting part of bards and none of the other stuff. Even if you *wanted* to be an ace player, there's nothing actually there for a bard to do outside of a very fixed rotation.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 09:52:43 AM by Maledict »
Draegan
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Reply #63 on: April 26, 2011, 09:18:15 AM

It's not even a rotation it's Cadence->Power Cord->Coda of Restoration (Maybe Wrath if you're feely saucy).  All the while healing for nothing and pumping out 150 dps when in a dps spec you're pushing 1200 dps with the same gear.
Shatter
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Reply #64 on: April 26, 2011, 10:28:14 AM

It's not even a rotation it's Cadence->Power Cord->Coda of Restoration (Maybe Wrath if you're feely saucy).  All the while healing for nothing and pumping out 150 dps when in a dps spec you're pushing 1200 dps with the same gear.

Yup this is why Rift bards fail.  The buffs bards do don't make up for the bad DPS and bad heals and its very evident at 50.  When other classes are doing thousands of dmg and your little bard cadence is healing for 100 per tick its pretty laughable.  Like Ive said I have played Bard since beta 1 but with the new sin/bd changes Ill probably go to a new spec that can maybe actually put some hurt on people.  They need to split up bard abilties to 2 categories then the 1 they do today.  An example would be Cadence does more dmg and the bard received 100% of that dmg in heals but the raid / group only gets 50%.  Same for buffs.  Bard gets higher values from their buffs and raids / groups get the standard amount.  Most abilities a bard has are always based around group which at a solo level hurts the bard signifigantly. 
Maledict
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Reply #65 on: April 26, 2011, 10:59:20 AM

There's nothing wrong with solo play for bards being bard. Not every soul has to be able to soul well - that's part of the point of the system. Dominators and Archons don't solo well either. They just need fixing so that having one in a 5 player group is actually a benefit and not a drag.

(Draegon - hate to be picky but a rotation is *exactly* what you outline there... :) You're hitting those 3 abilities in that order repeatedly. It's not a very long rotation, but it's definitely a rotation rather than a proc based system or a priority based system like other classes have).
Draegan
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Reply #66 on: April 26, 2011, 12:17:52 PM

There's nothing wrong with solo play for bards being bard. Not every soul has to be able to soul well - that's part of the point of the system. Dominators and Archons don't solo well either. They just need fixing so that having one in a 5 player group is actually a benefit and not a drag.

(Draegon - hate to be picky but a rotation is *exactly* what you outline there... :) You're hitting those 3 abilities in that order repeatedly. It's not a very long rotation, but it's definitely a rotation rather than a proc based system or a priority based system like other classes have).

1st Point:  Bards actually solo very well.  They're actually fun too, slow but fun, because you can augment them with other souls.  Bard/Ranger Bard/Blade Dancer.  Fun stuff.  To be worthwhile to a group/raid you have to go higher in the Bard root for buffs and you're play style is crippled.

The kicker is that they ARE needed in a Raid.  And their mechanics make them terribly boring to play and ineffective.  So people are "stuck with bard duty".

2nd Point:  Well no shit?  Thanks for informing me on that fact.  Ohhhhh, I see.
Maledict
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Reply #67 on: April 26, 2011, 12:24:17 PM



2nd Point:  Well no shit?  Thanks for informing me on that fact.  Ohhhhh, I see.

I only mentioned it because in your previous post:

Quote from: Draegan
It's not even a rotation


:)
Draegan
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Reply #68 on: April 26, 2011, 12:27:19 PM

Don't be a tard.
Shatter
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Reply #69 on: April 26, 2011, 01:24:19 PM

Solo play for bards is fine, maybe even a bit overpowered.  Solo PvP for bards is a free kill. 
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