The Hobbit (2012/2013)

[Cyrrex]

If only there was some kind of facepalm emoticon that could be used to express my exasperation.  There are three kinds of people in this world.  Those who really enjoyed the film adaptation of the LOTRO books done by Jackson, even if they recognize (or not!) that it doesn't always conform to the source material.  Then there are those Nerdragers who are so fucking obstuse about everything that they refuse to appreciate anything that doesn't exactly conform to their grand and ridiculous expectations.  These people hate everything.  They never create, they always destroy.  In the last group are your grandparents.  They don't like the movies because they are just too noisy, why does it have to be so loud for chrissakes!  And why does that Gandalf fellow hang around with all those little boys all the time!

Seriously, just go read your 600 page novel cover to cover.  You are nobody's target audience for anything, so stop having an opinion already.

 

[Margalis]

Who are you even talking to?

It's really odd that people are discussing the movies in common movie discussion vernacular and the response is just repeated "omg rage more that they don't exactly match the books nerds!"

I read the books in like 7th grade, and while I enjoyed them enough I have no great affinity for them. Judging the movies just as movies (which seems fair) they just aren't very good IMO - conformity to source has nothing to do with it. I don't really care if Frodo looking longingly at Samwise as they climb the exact same 4 meter mountain set for 2 hours is faithful to the books or not, it's just not compelling in movie form.

[Sir T]

Dude, allow me to repeat myself. Aside from a total of one scene I was looking forward to (which actually is in the third movie so I had already formed my opinion that the second movie was shit) I don't give 2 shits that they don't conform to the book. I'm sorry if you think Aragorn just tapping an Orc and the Orc falling over stone dead repeated 2 million times equals compelling action. I'm sorry that you think the Ents having a meeting because the Orcs were chopping down the woods and then deciding to do nothing, go home and die, only to change their minds when head Ent sees that the Orc are... uh... chopping down the woods is compelling tension filled drama. I cant even remember the bullshit that was in the third one as it was so fucking dull and I was facepalming througout, aside from someone reminding me up thread about the Elf surfing on a CGI elephant, woohoo. And I'm sorry that you think everyone having the same facial expression through the entire 2 movies and speaking in a serious monotone is fabulous acting.

Seriously get a new goddam argument willya?

Hey. In my generous moments, I marvel that the movies weren't dumbed down more. With the amount of money dumped into them, I imagine they were a hair's breadth from having Sauron drive a giant seam-powered mechanical spider out of Mordor.

Hell, that would have been an improvement and I would have been bloody well cheering Sauron on at that point.

[Cyrrex]

At the end of the day, it is because you are out of touch with reality.  These movies were huge commercial AND critical successes.  People, by and large, loved all these movies.  You are trashing them the same way one might trash the Transformers movies.  Sorry, but I am calling bullshit.  At least be a little more self aware and admit that you are the outliers in this case.  It is all well and fine to say you didn't like the movies, but calling them outright terrible just makes you look stupid.

[lamaros]

I didn't like the movies all that much (Don't think I saw the last one at the cinema, even). But I dislike the book more.

Does that make me a grandparent?

At the end of the day, it is because you are out of touch with reality.  These movies were huge commercial AND critical successes.  People, by and large, loved all these movies.  You are trashing them the same way one might trash the Transformers movies.  Sorry, but I am calling bullshit.  At least be a little more self aware and admit that you are the outliers in this case.  It is all well and fine to say you didn't like the movies, but calling them outright terrible just makes you look stupid.

What the fuck do popular views have to do with anything? If you disagree with the comments people are making here how about you address those comments? Going "arguh, you're all losers and nerds" isn't really providing a compelling reason for why the movies are so wonderful.

[Arthur_Parker]

I didn't like the movies all that much (Don't think I saw the last one at the cinema, even). But I dislike the book more.

I thought the books got better as they went along and the movies got worse.  There's not much I'd fault in the first movie, while I just don't like thinking about the third one.  The paths of the dead was such a key moment for me reading the books as a kid, it brought together the full weight of the history of the world and forced the lost heir onto a path that meant he had no choice but to reclaim the throne.  In the movie it went all "pirates of the caribbean".  

One of the worst examples of overuse of special effects since the Matrix 2/3 rubber pole fight.

The hobbit might be good though.  

[Margalis]

I would bet a massive amount of money that in another 10 years or so critical opinion will have turned on the movies.

Ebert's review of ROTK is pretty good. He liked the movie but the main point of his review is that it elevates spectacle over substance. In 10 years nobody is going to be wowed by the spectacle.

[Cyrrex]

I would bet a massive amount of money that in another 10 years or so critical opinion will have turned on the movies.

Ebert's review of ROTK is pretty good. He liked the movie but the main point of his review is that it elevates spectacle over substance. In 10 years nobody is going to be wowed by the spectacle.

That's fine, and a valid point.  What just gets under my skins is when the vast majority of the universe believes something to be good (or even great), including most critics, and then some of you come in here and claiming they were just absolutely terrible piles of garbage?  Sorry, that makes you the outliers.  It isn't wrong to have those opinions, not at all.  But acting like the terribleness of the movies is a given, and that everyone else are just stupid sheep...that's where you go wrong.  Very few people actually agree with you.  Just have some self awareness, is all.

[lamaros]

Again, what does groupthink have to do with anything? Since when is "most people think X" in any way a meaningful point, unless you are talking about polling?

[Ratman_tf]

At the end of the day, it is because you are out of touch with reality.  These movies were huge commercial AND critical successes.  People, by and large, loved all these movies.  You are trashing them the same way one might trash the Transformers movies. 

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: $836,303,693 BO.

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers: $925,282,504 BO.

I would say that people, by and large, loved Transformers 2 and TT equally. 

[Tannhauser]

Give it up Cyrrex, you're being trolled. We'll see these same trolls here in a year griping about the movie.  After plunking down $10 to see it. 

Our only hope is daybreak when they turn to stone. :)

[Cyrrex]

At the end of the day, it is because you are out of touch with reality.  These movies were huge commercial AND critical successes.  People, by and large, loved all these movies.  You are trashing them the same way one might trash the Transformers movies.

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: $836,303,693 BO.

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers: $925,282,504 BO.

I would say that people, by and large, loved Transformers 2 and TT equally.  

No, they did not, and you know they did not.  This is the deliberately being obtuse thing I was talking about.

Look, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with not liking the movies.  There are many things I don't like at all that most people really like.  Happens all the time.  But standing in the face of overwhelming common opinion, I'm not a big enough tool to categorically state that those things are unquestionably bad.  That's just fuckstupid.  But by all means, keep arguing.

[Margalis]

I am trying to talk about the movies in actual movie criticism terms, and your response is to alternate between the "lol nerd rage" non-sequitur and "well plenty of people like them!"

Sure, plenty of people do like them, and yes, some people are total nerds and rage about differences between the books and the movies. But that doesn't make the ridiculous climbing the volcano scenes in ROTK any better, or make dull CGI battles with no emotional weight behind them suddenly compelling.

[Cyrrex]

For what it's worth, I think your comments have been generally fair.  I'm reacting (and possibly over-reacting) to those who give off the impression that movie one was at best a passable, facepalming snoozefest, and the last two were downright horrible in every way., and therefore the movies were categorically terrible and irredeemable, and those facts should just be accepted as truth.  And then the false equivalencies of "hey, Transformers made even more money!".  Utter bullshit, all of it.

[Margalis]

They are better than Hall Pass.

[Sir T]

Dude, I think the consensus here was that people liked the first movie to varing degrees, rather than considering it a "snoozefest." And people said that "Well I liked the Hobbit book better" and no-one jumped down their throat. That's a fair opinion, got no problem with that.  Its just that you started off with "ha ha, you nerds just don't like it cause its not like the book. And it made loadamoney so you're all wrong neener" and then you start saying "oh I meant that you are all going against the common wisdom is all. And I didn't mean it about the money really!"

Fact is people are giving reasons WHY they didn't like the movie, and your comment about being nerds was just an insult as it basically ignored those reasons.

I'm reminded of when the movie Philadelphia came out and critics gushed over how brilliant it was, and a year later when the DVD came out I read a review which began "Is it ok to say Philadelphia was a boring movie yet?" I have a feeling when when they release their inevitable 10th anniversary edition that's whats going to be the consensus of the critics.

[Ironwood]

Here's an idea :

Can those who didn't like the 3 hobbit-featuring movies directed by Jackson please FUCK OFF out the thread about the new Hobbit-featuring movie directed by Jackson ?

Because it's been clear for about a page and a half that what we have here is trolling and self-importance, rather than bringing anything to the table we haven't already been nauseated by in the LotR threads.  Hey, you can even go back in there to talk about them since, frankly, no-one will give a flying fuck about you nor your opinions.

Honestly, this is like me commenting on the Newest Twilight film in that thread*.  What's the fucking point apart from being an utter Fucking Arsehole ?

*we have one, right ?

[Sir T]

Amazingly we don't have a Breaking Dawn thread. Care to start one? 

[Ironwood]

Don't.  My friend brought that bloody Red Riding Hood movie round, you know, the one that's got 'The Best Thing Since Twilight' or something on the cover.  She's the chapess that's been subjecting me to the other Twilight movies.

We watched Conan instead.

 

[Margalis]

Red Riding Hood was no good because it took too many liberties with the source material.

[shiznitz]

For all Jackson's annoying tweaks and over-emphasis on Sam loves Frodo, the movies all had incredibly awesome scenes that I think we can all agree on if we ignore their book accuracy and just appreciate them as good movie making:

1) Moria fight and flight
2) Balrog scenes
3) Fight at the end of Fellowship
4) Rohan plains flght against mounted orcs
5) Helm's Deep defense
6) Ents at Saruman's tower
7) Shelob
8) The charge of the Rohirrim and the fighting against the oliphants.

My awe and enjoyment of those scenes has withstood the test of multiple viewings and makes the trilogy the great MOVIE experience that it is.

[TheWalrus]

Red Riding Hood was no good because it took too many liberties with the source material.

But the hood was still red. You can tell the director loved what he was doing with all he did in the film.

[Sir T]

...  makes the trilogy the great MOVIE experience that it is.

So why did you capitalize movie considering we have been discussing the trilogy as movies all thread?

[Draegan]

...  makes the trilogy the great MOVIE experience that it is.

So why did you capitalize movie considering we have been discussing the trilogy as movies all thread?

Heh, funny.  You're acting just like the people you get frustrated with in politics. 

[Sheepherder]

I might actually be able to enjoy The Hobbit.  It's a shorter and simpler piece, probably better suited for movies because if Jackson fleshes it out a little bit it wouldn't be a bad thing, and there's significantly less Tolkien derp to trim.

[Ironwood]

Nah, you're going to hate it.

Go see something else.

[Ingmar]

Here's an idea :

Can those who didn't like the 3 hobbit-featuring movies directed by Jackson please FUCK OFF out the thread about the new Hobbit-featuring movie directed by Jackson ?

Because it's been clear for about a page and a half that what we have here is trolling and self-importance, rather than bringing anything to the table we haven't already been nauseated by in the LotR threads.  Hey, you can even go back in there to talk about them since, frankly, no-one will give a flying fuck about you nor your opinions.

Honestly, this is like me commenting on the Newest Twilight film in that thread*.  What's the fucking point apart from being an utter Fucking Arsehole ?

*we have one, right ?

 

[Ratman_tf]

At the end of the day, it is because you are out of touch with reality.  These movies were huge commercial AND critical successes.  People, by and large, loved all these movies.  You are trashing them the same way one might trash the Transformers movies.

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen: $836,303,693 BO.

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers: $925,282,504 BO.

I would say that people, by and large, loved Transformers 2 and TT equally.  

No, they did not, and you know they did not.

[Sheepherder]

Nah, you're going to hate it.

Go see something else.

Honest question: what's the worst he can do?  Cut bipedal dogs and Gandalf hobnobbing with eagles?  Excuse me if I don't cry over their absence.


 

[Arthur_Parker]

"nae trainers"

Got me good.

[Ironwood]

Honest question: what's the worst he can do?

I don't know, but you've been worried about it since page 2.  It's not a good sign.

 

[lamaros]

The worst thing he can do is what he did to LotR: make everything EPIC an lose all the quieter and more subtle moments.

Which he probably will, because that's what the fans of the other movies will expect, and what the trailer indicates. Never mind that they're very different kinds of stories.

[Ironwood]

Shit got pretty fucking epic at the end.

[lamaros]

I never really felt like that reading the books. It was always Bilbo going "oh shit, there's a big world out there I know fuck all about", do it was a very removed epic.

I haven't read the book for a while though.

[Merusk]

One of the last chapters ain't called "The Battle of Five Armies" for no reason.

That's pretty epic.


The problem, in truth, will be if it's 2 movies the first one will be a lot of walking and talking until the Goblin caves and end on a less-than-epic note with the wood elves (probably.)   Then the 2ond one will be way too much epic crap crammed in, with Smaug's attack on Laketown and the Bo5a getting less than an hour to do both.