S#3 - Playoffs Quarter Finals!

[Sky]

New teams, new coaches for our league. The actual new coaches got slaughtered.

What is the list of actual new coaches to the game entirely. I know there is Haem and me and maybe Ginaz?

[Modern Angel]

I don't think I mentioned brand new coaches.

[lamaros]

I'm a brand new coach. Bought the game for the f13 league.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

I also bought the game for the league.

That said, I roll my eyes at those putting forth a couple of teams making it deep into the playoffs as anecdotal evidence that the brand new teams were not at a disadvantage this season. AndyDavo is an extremely experienced coach and Lamaros was in the only division with only a single high-TV team. Newer players in tougher divisions pretty regularly had their asses handed to them in ways they clearly found frustrating.

That's not an argument that the way the league was organized was wrong, there were tradeoffs to be made, but the dismissive attitude gets a little  .

[Ingmar]

I was new-ish, I had only played in one and a half 4 team leagues with the Dark Elves edition, otherwise just some single player. So 7 or 8 games against live players, something like that. I'm sure if I hadn't had that experience though I would have had a much harder time. I guess I did have some relevant experience with other minis games that helped me pick this one up faster too.

[AndyDavo]

This is quite obviously a bunch of lies. There is no way new teams can compete with the established ones.

I would point out that i'm in the final and my team started (and prob is) a brand new Tv1000 team. I do have alot of experience though.

[AndyDavo]

I would add that it IS hard for lower tv teams to compete effectivly, but the number one thing i look to get every game is a wizard. With any agile team you should be able to turn a  defence into a score and with a bash team you should be able to prevent a score. Assuming that you can score yourself that should be a win, at worst a draw.

[Modern Angel]

I'm probably (definitely) overstating my feelings on this but there were pretty vehement posts periodically at set up time that there was absolutely no way that new teams could compete. Now, obviously I'm flogging that dead horse hard because I'm a dickhole and obviously they're at something of a disadvantage but it's pretty equally obvious that it's simply not true that the brand new teams were at a disastrous disadvantage.

[Kail]

What is the list of actual new coaches to the game entirely. I know there is Haem and me and maybe Ginaz?

This was the first time I've played against non-AI opponents, played the single player game a bit before this, though.

[Ingmar]

I'm probably (definitely) overstating my feelings on this but there were pretty vehement posts periodically at set up time that there was absolutely no way that new teams could compete. Now, obviously I'm flogging that dead horse hard because I'm a dickhole and obviously they're at something of a disadvantage but it's pretty equally obvious that it's simply not true that the brand new teams were at a disastrous disadvantage.

The argument was never really about new teams as much as it was about new coaches. Experienced player vs experienced player with a TV difference could still go either way. New player vs. experienced player with a large TV difference in the experienced players favor *really* favors the experienced player.

It is what it is at this point though, and now everyone is blooded for S4, right?

[Modern Angel]

Now that I'll agree on but I think, on balance, the new coaches were good sports and did pretty well for themselves.

[AndyDavo]

Now that I'll agree on but I think, on balance, the new coaches were good sports and did pretty well for themselves.

That they did.

And they got alot better too. 

[Falconeer]

Off to Jacksonville in a few hours. I passed Commissioner rights for the Playoffs to Modern Angel (Brocktoon).

Have a nice end of the season without me, I'll celebrate you all when I'll be back. And there's a prize too, remember?

[Modern Angel]

Just post here, I guess. I visit several times a day for updates. I'm not certain if replays are still needed at this point for BB Manager but go ahead and have the winner upload them to be safe.

[Sky]

Now that I'll agree on but I think, on balance, the new coaches were good sports and did pretty well for themselves.

I had a bit of a snit, but I think that was just part of the learning experience. Once I realized that I was both out-gunned and out-classed by most of the competition (I mean, my first game against a human was Comstar's amazons!) it took a couple matches to adjust. Then I started having a blast. Reflecting on it, the thing that frustrated me most this season was the UI - couple bad misclicks and end-of-turn non-follow-ups.

It does help that I had some lucky dice toward the end of the season and was able to influence the playoffs a wee bit. I think knowing I had nothing to lose made it more fun than those who expected to win, because my win condition was just some spp to build the team and no deaths. Once I set that win condition for myself and set about treating each match as a way to practice formations and tactics, the game got a lot more enjoyable.

[HaemishM]

New coaches with new teams make a huge difference over experienced coaches with new teams. I know my first 2 games at least I had no chance not so much because of my team as because I made a metric fuckton of huge mistakes and got rolled. I got a lot better at making choices and not getting fucked by the clock. The fact that the game is hugely dice dependent and the dice are fickle motherfuckers doesn't help the n00bs overcome frustration. And yes, the UI is ball-licking bad.

I am jonesing for Season 4 and the new league as well.

[Comstar]

The fact that the game is hugely dice dependent and the dice are fickle motherfuckers doesn't help the vets overcome frustration.

Andy got off two 1-Dice blocks to knock down my ball carrier, and I failed three times on a 2-dice block to do the same to him - If I'd made any one of them 3 attempts I made in the last 3 turns of the 2nd half, I would have won 1-0. 

Nuffle is a bitch.

[AndyDavo]

Andy got off two 1-Dice blocks to knock down my ball carrier, and I failed three times on a 2-dice block to do the same to him - If I'd made any one of them 3 attempts I made in the last 3 turns of the 2nd half, I would have won 1-0.  

Nuffle is a bitch.

I would just like to point out it was only 1, 1 dice block on the balll which (with RR in hand) had a 1/36 chance of failing (ie dislodging the ball) and had the witch only achived a push result then i would of surfed the player too. At the end i was Deliberatly letting you get 2 dice blocks on the ball (for everyone else you need to watch the replay to understand why) since if u had dislodged the ball you couldnt make it safe. I was activly trying to get you to burn rerolls and slowly get the str4 guy to a point where i  could surf him. I would also point out your score came about because my opening plan utterly failed (no surf from middle and a failed dodge with RR gifting you a TD).

While some of your dice were bad, so where mine, also at critical points.

I just checked the dice logs:

On the block dice you had a sucsess of 49% i had 40%, we both rolled more 1's and 2's than statistically likely and we both rolled less 6's than normal, i did slightly roll more 1's and less 6's than you. But as i  said i think it was dice at critical moments that screwed us, I failed a catch on turn 6 to run away a score, you failed a block on turn 8 to make 2-0. One thing was for sure it was a close and tense game decided in the 19th turn!

[lamaros]

Double overtime. One dead, one -str. 2-1 to Llyse.

Pissed off. Llyse was fucked by dice early (I got a couple of early injuries, my only for the game) and I probably could have won with some more conservative play. Misused my wizard and then got smashed by kos and injuries.

When the luck turned I was screwed. My two GRs and Stormvermin spent too much time on the side, very hard to score with only 1 or 0 grs on the ground. Rat Ogre again went missing when it was needed.

Fair play to Llyse, played the better game with fewer mistakes. Bloody tired here, will maybe write more later.

[Modern Angel]

So awesome news, nerds! My rights as assistant league administrator are not high enough to validate the match!

That's right: the finals must wait until Falc's return.

[AndyDavo]

oh well, thats sad times.

Even i think i  dont stand much chance in the final - when the last 2 games i thought i had a reasonable chance. i think 600tv and a killer necro team might just, just, prove 1 bridge too far.

[lamaros]

Damn you Falc. I wont to get this season over with so the hurt can depart...

In hindsight playing at 10:30pm after getting 3 hours sleep the day before was a bad idea. I really misplayed my last two attempts to score, failing to adjust for the fact I only had one or two GRs and being overly aggressive without the means to pull it off. What can I do now though? Nothing! 

Just a question for those that wont bother to watch the replay:

On the 15th turn Llyse's WW was sitting right next to the endzone. He had no one else with in range and had the ball in hands. He had no rerolls. It was 1-0 my way.

I could have used my Wizard on him. If it didn't fail and I broke armor I won the game. If he failed to pick up the spilled ball I won the game.

Or I could have saved the wizard for overtime and my chance to score and make it 2-1.

What would you have done?

[Strazos]

I would have burned the wizard. Saving for OT would involve more variables.

[Ingmar]

I'd use the wizard, because even if it fails you still get your chance to score and go 2-1. You lose nothing by doing it, essentially, other than a potential opportunity to use it later.

[Megrim]

Damn you Falc. I wont to get this season over with so the hurt can depart...

In hindsight playing at 10:30pm after getting 3 hours sleep the day before was a bad idea. I really misplayed my last two attempts to score, failing to adjust for the fact I only had one or two GRs and being overly aggressive without the means to pull it off. What can I do now though? Nothing! 

Just a question for those that wont bother to watch the replay:

On the 15th turn Llyse's WW was sitting right next to the endzone. He had no one else with in range and had the ball in hands. He had no rerolls. It was 1-0 my way.

I could have used my Wizard on him. If it didn't fail and I broke armor I won the game. If he failed to pick up the spilled ball I won the game.

Or I could have saved the wizard for overtime and my chance to score and make it 2-1.

What would you have done?

Haven't watched the rep yet, but it would have depended on what your gameplan was, and how many players down you were. You were receiving in OT I think, so I would have let him score, saved the Wizard and used it to guarantee a TD in overtime - if you thought that you still had a good shot at scoring come OT. If not, for example if you felt too pressured to be able to carry the game any further, then using it would have been the right thing to do.

[Llyse]

Extra late Match report:

So it's a last minute decision but Lamaros decides to buy Morg n Thorg and a wizard for his significant amount of inducements.

I win the toss and elect to kick and get a Perfect Defense to begin play. I reset my line but somehow fail to notice that I only have 2 players on the line of scrimmage and so my guard, sure hands ghoul is tossed to face Hostus the Juggernaut Rat Ogre. Lamaros 1 of 2 wrestle gutter runners fails to catch the ball and takes down the stalwart zombie lineman before attempting to rip Katze's face off with Hostus. This however leads to a 2 die against and Attacker down is duly rolled and chosen.

Calvin the Menace blitzes his Stormvermin counterpart and Rohmulus the 2nd is knocked off the field until overtime not wanting to follow in his predecessor's footsteps. A ballsy play for Katze the ghoul to dodge twice (once into a TZ) suceeds but instead of pressuring the ball attempts to pick up with 3 TZ and sure hands. This fails and leads to a serious concussion from Morg and Thorg next turn possibly ending his career as the ball carrier.

The Skaven continue to get good the better deal with Hostus taking out Vince the Kicker zombie for 2 matches but decides to play careful and refuses to pick up the ball with 4 tackle zones around it. While stalling continues both gutter runners are knocked before Lamaros makes a run for the TD line with his thrower. By this time, the Necromantic team are down 4 players, 2 permanently and the Skaven are actually up in numbers.

A critical UI mistake means that Instead of Blitzing the ball carrier with Calvin the Legendary Menace, Lamaros runs in for an easy score on the 6th giving 3 turns for Alive not Dead to equalise with only 1 reroll vs Lamaros' 3. Play starts solidly enough with a linerat missing the next game. But Calvin just doesn't seem that agile failing dodge roll after dodge roll dropping the ball next to a gutter runner's hands and an opportunity for Lamaros to go 2 up. He fails the pass however giving Alive not Dead a chance to equalise with a pickup, 2 GFIs and a handoff.

Sadly the pass fails and it's 1-0 to the Skaven team. Both teams receive 1/2 players from KO recovery so both sides have 10 men on the field. It's Brilliant Coaching and Lamaros has 4 rerolls to play with this half. Overall the dice rolls aren't great with a reroll burnt early for Alive not Dead by Calvin the Menace. Luckily the kick is off field and a Werewolf has it in hand.

Morg and Thorg shows his strength and pushes through to pressure the Necromantic team to hand off to the werewolf behind only to fail after burning the reroll to 2/4 for Llyse.

It's about now that Hostus really starts to act up failing Wild Animals turn after turn and with both teams fighting to the tooth and nail the lost of such a key player is telling, however Calvin the Menace fails more dodge rolls giving the rats a sniff of victory. Hostus keeps up failing to move AND eating one of Lamaros' precious (but plentiful rerolls). Calvin picks up the ball after burning 3/4 rerolls on hand-offs, blitzes, and dodges picks up the ball and runs to the sideline.

It's close to overtime, and Llyse only has 1 reroll left but a guarantee score holding the middle quite well with guard and GREGOR. Morg is finally brought down an opportunity to foul with 2 assists appears... however Rob the Zombie needs to make a GFI and fails, idiotically the fear of Morg and Thorg pressures Llyse to reroll to get the foul and the last reroll is gone.  

Lamaros elects to use the lightning bolt now and it strikes Calvin down but not enough to stun him so he needs to pick up the ball at this critical moment with no backup from the team. He does so and succeeds for the equaliser on the 16th turn! (Benson the Hedge Knight was around to make the pick up but would have needed 2 GFIs in order to cover for Calvin.

It's extra time and the Necromantic team get their full complement of wolves back and have a man advantage vs the rats. Hostus continues to bring the team down failing Wild Animal blocks and Benjamin the linerat decides to switch sides to the Necromantic by killing himself on Rob's rotting fists.

The Skaven are heavily pressured now with the thrower very far back but Benson and Gui aren't far behind pressure the quarterback. In the mean time Gutter runners and receivers are marked and blitzed for entering the Necromantic territory. Gregor and Morg face off and Gregor stands firm while Hostus fails his Wild Animal check, forcing the rats to dodge away which eventually fails.

Hobbes shows that he's no slouch compared to Calvin and KOs Rheemus the Guarding Stormvermin calling an apothecary to keep him on the field. This opens up enough space and the Quarterback is sacked and the ball loose. Before Calvin picks up the ball once again to finally give Alive not Dead the lead 2-1!

Hostus is KOed and double overtime is played giving Lamaros to equalise with 7 on the pitch vs a full 11 Necromantic (1 ex Skaven). Without Vince their key kicker the ball is off field and handed to Morg to run in for an equalising TD. A 2 die against is attempted by Benson but fails to dislodge the ball from the Legendary Ogre and slow progress is made while a gutter runner sets up to receive a pass.

However there are enough bodies in the way that Morg can't get free for a Pass and score ends at Double Overtime at 2-1.

Another great semifinal but costing the Necromantic team their valuable kicker and ball carrier ghoul.

Bring on the Wildcards  

[lamaros]

I think the right answer was to use it earlier in the half, there were a few turns I could have used it to get a free run at the ball. Or to lock it up. However I didn't. And by the time I realized my mistake he had ran it down to my end and I was locked up on halfway.

Really really missed those GRs.

Can't remember for sure but I had at least one GR and Stormvermin out, maybe more. Was down to maybe 7 on the pitch with 2 out for good and 3 KOs.

Wasn't confident about scoring in OT as I was struggling to move the ball w/o more GRs, but I did have a reroll left, and he had none.

[Llyse]

Haven't watched the rep yet, but it would have depended on what your gameplan was, and how many players down you were. You were receiving in OT I think, so I would have let him score, saved the Wizard and used it to guarantee a TD in overtime - if you thought that you still had a good shot at scoring come OT. If not, for example if you felt too pressured to be able to carry the game any further, then using it would have been the right thing to do.

Yeah, I always wondering if instead of Morg you had gotten 2 merc gutter runners and see how that would have played. You would have had more money of Bloodweiser girls or bribes etc. You had 2 gutter runners and 2 Stormvermin and I focused them hard so you really only had 1 of each key player on the field for extended periods.

I would have gone for the latter, especially since I'm a careless player. Any injury rolls or failed pickup would have given the 1-0 win in normal time. What I should have done was score on the 15 and not risked that. But I'm a retard  

[drogg]

Double overtime. One dead, one -str. 2-1 to Llyse.

Pissed off. Llyse was fucked by dice early (I got a couple of early injuries, my only for the game) and I probably could have won with some more conservative play. Misused my wizard and then got smashed by kos and injuries.

When the luck turned I was screwed. My two GRs and Stormvermin spent too much time on the side, very hard to score with only 1 or 0 grs on the ground. Rat Ogre again went missing when it was needed.

Fair play to Llyse, played the better game with fewer mistakes. Bloody tired here, will maybe write more later.

my efforts were not in vain! thus always to tyrants

[lamaros]

Good writeup Llyse.

I would add that on the final turn on the game I made the pass to the GR from Morg. The GR then needed to make a 3+, 3+ and 2+ dodge sequence to tie the scores at 2-2. He had dodge, but failed it anyhow.

Also in the first half, when I failed to make it 2-0, I had the chance to hit the guarding ghoul on my GR (that failed to catch the handoff), and failed to stand up players to mark the area in case of handoff failure.

For inducements I think I would have gone with my original plan if I did it again; get the other big Rat Ogre and a babe (was never planning on the bribes, just a bit 'o misdirection) as I don't think GRs with loner would have been enough. I usually play GRs with two deep to receive and keep the opponent guessing, one to hang mid field and take the pass so he can give a handoff to the ones deep, and one around to pinch hit with assists, picking the ball up and etc.

The Block GRs are the ones who play deep, and I didn't have any this game. Realising that I should have changed my strategy and gone for a more caging game. This is what I was thinking when I picked up Morg; I would use the two big guys to get some hurt on Llyse and keep the ball carrier safe, playing more of a bashy game.

Except I didn't think it through, and whacked my GRs deep anyhow. Every single drive. Leaving them on the ground (wrestle doesn't help you stay up) or getting them KOd.

It was a really poorly thought out plan, and poorly executed. To be honest I was only in the game to the end because Llyse had some shocking dice in the first half and he deserved it more. If we did it again now, rested and having thought it through I would probably play a whole heap better but without that luck in the first half I'd probably lose still anyhow.

[lamaros]

Just did the odds on the train: 42% chance to win the game with my wizard. Wizards have let me down all season.

Rolled SEVEN 1s on Wild Animal rolls.

Also Llyse: That's the first time you've beaten me.  

(Someone play me. I can't get this game out of my head!)

[Kalle]

Yeah, I always wondering if instead of Morg you had gotten 2 merc gutter runners and see how that would have played. You would have had more money of Bloodweiser girls or bribes etc. You had 2 gutter runners and 2 Stormvermin and I focused them hard so you really only had 1 of each key player on the field for extended periods.

I would have gone for the latter, especially since I'm a careless player. Any injury rolls or failed pickup would have given the 1-0 win in normal time. What I should have done was score on the 15 and not risked that. But I'm a retard  

I wouldn't get merc gutter runners because having players with the loner skill doing any kind of ball handling is just too risky for my tastes. Skaven are kind of boned in the cyanide game because they only get one unique star player and it's a Rat Ogre without block. Morg will always be their best option, but as an alternative I'd get merc storm vermin with an extra skill, probably guard.

[lamaros]

Allready had 2/2. You can't get mercs if you have a full quota.

[Llyse]

I watched the replay again and I don't think I played better than you at all. For most of the match I felt on the back foot. I could have done better pressuring you to pick up the ball but otherwise it was quite fortunate I got the game into overtime.

One thing that might have helped you was Blitzing with morg more and giving up on your rat ogre but you never know how the dice rolls.

Best of luck vs Avaia!

[lamaros]

I watched the replay again and I don't think I played better than you at all. For most of the match I felt on the back foot. I could have done better pressuring you to pick up the ball but otherwise it was quite fortunate I got the game into overtime.

One thing that might have helped you was Blitzing with morg more and giving up on your rat ogre but you never know how the dice rolls.

Best of luck vs Avaia!

Yeah, having thought about it more now I think I did the inducements the right way. The real problem I made was not trying to cage up and bash with Morg and Co more, and foolishly sacrificing my GRs to you by leaving them unsupported in your end. If my RO hadn't fallen apart on me I probably had a decent chance of getting the first score in OT. That one where he failed and failed the loner when I needed to clear your WW to run up the side was the killer one.

When that happened I was very tempted to dodge my GR free and throw a long pass to it. Would have got the ball in your end, and with my GR around and no re-rolls either side probably have given me a chance to take it. I probably should have done it too. I was scared of leaving the ball loose and giving you numbers around it, but you had no rerolls and it was no worse than where it was; Leaving my thrower with the ball unprotected near the middle was the wrong choice in the end.

Next season I'll have 4 GRs and some leveled champs hopefully, so there will be some chance at revenge.