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Author Topic: Soul opinions  (Read 126928 times)
Zetor
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Reply #175 on: March 16, 2011, 06:44:30 AM

Probably posted before, but for clerics at medium-high levels (with decent amounts of spellpower) an inquisitor[31+]/cabalist[11]/sentinel[10] build works wonders, it's kind of like oldschool WOW affliction lock soloing. Tag 6-7 mobs at a time with vex, break LOS to pull ranged mobs in close, fanaticism + soul drain, and most will die on the spot; use circle of oblivion to finish the stragglers, use vex on any adds and repeat. Use healing breath if needed (usually only if I get 5 stacks of exposed during the round-up part). Every 2-3 mob packs use decay to 3 stacks -> obliterate (with sigil of power) to refill mana bar. It gets even better at 44 inquisitor with the automatic pbaoe damage field. No real risk of dying unless mobs dispel vex (VERY rare) and/or you don't reapply vex in time against healer mobs or mobs with lots of hp.

This spec easily soloes all minor rifts, except for the last phase (if it's a melee elite and/or there are no green crystals left). For soloing elites you can just switch into a random justicar tanking spec and win... eventually.  awesome, for real

Threash
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Reply #176 on: March 16, 2011, 06:57:11 AM

Up to 26 so far on my necro/pyro/dom mage - full necro, 7 or 8 in dom for squirrel and 2 insta DDs, and 0 in pyro for another insta DD.

The upgraded skeletons are awesome, and I have a feeling the mage skele should be badass in pvp, but it doesn't seem as good as the stabby damg skeleton right now, as the stabby guy cranks out some insane damage with multiple deathly calling stacks, necro and looming demise.

Pve is EZ-mode up to 3 or 4 mobs, after that it depends on if the skeleton's AOE taunt grabs everything.  The DPS is pretty sick too - I was fucking around with moki's warrior earlier and my necro killed the same stuff at least 2x as fast at the same level.

Wanting to try out some other roles, but I'm afraid of fucking up and having bad combos/useless roles - they really need to put in the option to respec soul choices themselves, not just points within souls.

Also, is archmage the only pvp soul for mage, or are there others too?


If a soul has zero points spent in it you can switch it out whenever you want, you don't even need to respec for that.

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Segoris
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Reply #177 on: March 16, 2011, 07:34:16 AM

Pure paladin tanking is good mitigation but not so great for threat gen and aggro, also very single target with a couple exceptions

For tanks past level 18 - I could not disagree more. At 18 pallies can be full pally and pick up plague bringer when using reaver as their secondary soul, pretty much solving their AE threat issues they had previously. It only gets better from there on out, especially at 32 when you pick up Light's Decree.

Ok, this looks like an opportunity for me to learn a bit about game mechanics.  Reavers don't benefit from +spell power, so I had to assume their damage was based on attack power.  Strength gives me attack power.  Does strength not increase the damage of my non-physical abilities?  If not, is there anything that does?

Strength does have some effect on non-physical abilities for wars, but the scaling rate with gear is really bad to the point of being almost unnoticeable. IIRC, the difference between being naked and using dps gear when using flamespears was roughly 15%. This is why I was against the riftblade nerf they did, and the way they did it since once people have resists, riftblade damage will be worse than it is now compared to something like champ/bm. What they need to do is remove the nerfs from riftblade and simply adjust the values from lower level abilities, or keep the nerfs in and allow the abilities to scale off of AP better.

Though, the current way non-physical abilities are barely effected by str/ap is an advantage when leveling up and before you get any good weapons/gear, since flamespear and similar skills that aren't based on weapon damage will still hit for a good amount. You just have to look for a different spec at 50 after getting gear.
Sobelius
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Reply #178 on: March 16, 2011, 03:16:14 PM

This is why I was against the riftblade nerf they did, and the way they did it since once people have resists, riftblade damage will be worse than it is now compared to something like champ/bm. What they need to do is remove the nerfs from riftblade and simply adjust the values from lower level abilities, or keep the nerfs in and allow the abilities to scale off of AP better.

And yet here is Falconeer saying that at 30 Riftblade has a one-trick-pony-I-win with its riftsurge ability -- so wouldn't it be the case for Riftblades (even at 50) that they'll be effective compared to champ/bm?

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Rendakor
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Reply #179 on: March 16, 2011, 03:20:46 PM

I got tired of my rogue and rolled a cleric last week and came up with a pretty badass leveling build: Justicar/Shaman/Druid. Up to 19 you focus on Justicar,
like so. Before the teens you're just a half decent tank, but once you get Even Justice fully specced you start pulling packs of 3-5 and smashing them all at once; spam EJ mostly, using Doctrine of Valiance and Glacial Shield (along with passive healing from the 0p druid pet) to keep yourself alive. 2h weapon is mandatory because EJ's damage is weapon based. In the event that you're fighting only one mob, you can use the following macro (it also works to help aggro mobs at range):

Post 19 you start to pump the shaman tree; this is what I look like now at level 28. I've now got two separate 1m CD mana skills that give back 10% mana per melee swing which fixes the only issue the build ever had; this is aided by Endless Winter which restores 4% mana whenever I crit. EJ is still the primary skill, although I do use Fated Blow whenever it's up.

By 39 I'm going to finish the Shaman tree like so, to get another AoE that includes a dot*, 30% more damage on my next swing when I crit, and a 1m CD that makes everything crit for 6s.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS After that I'll probably drop 10p in the Druid tree for 5% more crit, but that's not set in stone yet.

Thoughts?

*I'm honestly not sure if Strike of the Maelstrom will be worth using, due to the damage reduction non-Justicar skills take from Mien of Leadership.

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Segoris
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Reply #180 on: March 16, 2011, 03:54:59 PM

This is why I was against the riftblade nerf they did, and the way they did it since once people have resists, riftblade damage will be worse than it is now compared to something like champ/bm. What they need to do is remove the nerfs from riftblade and simply adjust the values from lower level abilities, or keep the nerfs in and allow the abilities to scale off of AP better.

And yet here is Falconeer saying that at 30 Riftblade has a one-trick-pony-I-win with its riftsurge ability -- so wouldn't it be the case for Riftblades (even at 50) that they'll be effective compared to champ/bm?

Initially yes, not after a while though since the ability doesn't scale almost at all.
kildorn
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Reply #181 on: March 16, 2011, 04:12:51 PM

RBs just need scaling based off weapon, and their base damage values slashed in response.

All of their abilities scale fine, the reason the nerf was stupid was that they increased the DD portion of their primary attack and removed the silly DoT. Which helped them a bit in high end pve (without addressing scaling issues) but made them even more bullshit in pvp.

But Rift Surge in general needs a swing of the nerf bat, even if the nerf is to simply make it dispellable. Right now, it's a death sentence to any non tank player (you can avoid it's damage by not doing anything! While the RB gets ~10 seconds to dismantle you without retaliation), and you can abuse it by running around with 3 AP built up that will never decay out of combat.
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Reply #182 on: March 17, 2011, 08:03:36 AM

I'm running my defiant as 1hd+board Justicar/Druid/Warden.  I don't kill fast, but I'm nigh unkillable in PvE.  Unless its something that is grossly over my level or a super-elite, it dies.  Even con mobs I've taken on 6-7 at a time and walk out full health.  The shield from Druid and the 0pt hot from Warden compliment each other very well for solo PvE.  Not to mention that if I get in a group and someone draws aggro from me, I can hot them real quick to take the edge off.  I'm liking it so far.
Segoris
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Reply #183 on: March 17, 2011, 10:24:59 AM

RBs just need scaling based off weapon, and their base damage values slashed in response.

All of their abilities scale fine, the reason the nerf was stupid was that they increased the DD portion of their primary attack and removed the silly DoT. Which helped them a bit in high end pve (without addressing scaling issues) but made them even more bullshit in pvp.

But Rift Surge in general needs a swing of the nerf bat, even if the nerf is to simply make it dispellable. Right now, it's a death sentence to any non tank player (you can avoid it's damage by not doing anything! While the RB gets ~10 seconds to dismantle you without retaliation), and you can abuse it by running around with 3 AP built up that will never decay out of combat.

When they removed the dot from flame spear, they did not increase the direct damage portion - they lowered that by around 30%. People read the patch notes that said "damage values updated" and made incorrect assumptions that it meant increased, which was proven to be false. That was a huge nerf to that ability, which was needed at lower level when people had no good gear and no resists making riftblade abilities stronger than their counterparts, but with poor scaling (which no, the RB abilities do not scale fine by any means) it becomes a much weaker ability compared to almost any other dps any-time ability. To give an idea of the scaling difference, in t1/t2 gear flame spear has to crit in order to come close to non-crit damage from Path of the Wind from the paragon tree.

For rift surge, I wouldn't mind rift surge being dispellable, just as long as it starts scaling.
kildorn
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Reply #184 on: March 17, 2011, 12:59:45 PM

It may have been nerfed in the high end, but the damage on the sub20 ranks of flame spear were increased when the dot was removed. We were comparing beta tooltips to live and seeing the increase of about 20%.

The note would make more sense if they buffed and nerfed it at different ranks, because otherwise they should have just said "increased" or "decreased"

I still maintain my huge complaint: Trion's patch notes need to include some damned numbers, not just "we edited a skill!"
Nebu
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Reply #185 on: March 18, 2011, 06:48:12 AM

Any suggestions on speccing a cleric in purifier?  I was sentenel spec for the ae, but found it to be far too power intensive to be worthwhile.  I switched to purifier on my late 40's cleric and still feel underwhelmed by my healing ability particularly on Rift bosses.  While my most efficient heal does a great job, it has too long a cast time against hard-hitting mobs to be useful.  I find myself relying too heavily on bubble and my insta coupled to my faster cast heals.  For tanks, it's just not enough. 

Perhaps I just need to learn a better rotation?  Any advice welcome.

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Zetor
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Reply #186 on: March 18, 2011, 07:05:30 AM

This isn't strictly a purifier thing, but with respect to mana regen (from a 'healing pug pvp / instances / rifts' point of view), I've had good results with putting 10 points into druid for fae hammer. It's a very powerful cooldown: gives you ~60% total mana every minute if you can stop healing for 10 sec and spam fervent strike on something -- make sure that you don't buy higher ranks of fervent strike, so each "strike" only costs you 8 mana while regenerating 10% of your total. I suspect it isn't viable in high-end raids and expert dungeons, but it's very good for everything else. It is also a decent counter to the massive manadraining that goes on at 50.

(bonus: if you put 1 more point into druid, you can pick up slumber - a solid pvp / emergency cc. The other points in druid aren't all wasted either, since you get an instant heal on 10sec cd, a physical self-bubble and some extra crit. Tier 1 is kind of useless though, since 5% endurance is the best choice and it's not so hot)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 07:08:30 AM by Zetor »

kildorn
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Reply #187 on: March 18, 2011, 07:08:10 AM

Invasion bosses are usually not inteded to be solo healed, I believe. But fromo the tanking side of it, I found the long heal to be plenty, you just have to cast-cancel like other MMOs (pre cast it before damage has been taken. If you're at 20% of the cast time left and there's still not a HP dent to fix, jump/move to cancel the cast and restart it)

Instance wise so far, I've found nothing that will immediately murder my rogue tank. But I've found a lot of healers with big heals who wait until I'm at 30% health to start casting a giant heal, and I die in the window between cast starting and hp bottoming out.

Raid wise, I found Wardens to be awesome at spreading hots around everywhere. Easily as functional as my Bard for keeping an entire raid up while someone else keeps the tank topped off.
kubodhi
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Reply #188 on: March 18, 2011, 07:10:58 AM

+1 on wardens for mana efficiency, at least in my experience.  They can also effectively burst on the tank with Deluge (assuming a fair number of HoTs).  Can't really speak to the other specs yet, though.
EWSpider
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Reply #189 on: March 18, 2011, 08:01:48 AM

Any suggestions on speccing a cleric in purifier?  I was sentenel spec for the ae, but found it to be far too power intensive to be worthwhile.  I switched to purifier on my late 40's cleric and still feel underwhelmed by my healing ability particularly on Rift bosses.  While my most efficient heal does a great job, it has too long a cast time against hard-hitting mobs to be useful.  I find myself relying too heavily on bubble and my insta coupled to my faster cast heals.  For tanks, it's just not enough. 

Perhaps I just need to learn a better rotation?  Any advice welcome.

I'm shooting for something like this for end game healing:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00Gej.Ex0V0zz.xE0xqkRqz.t

As mentioned, if you pre-hot your tank before the engagement Deluge is a great main heal.  It can be painful to micromanage stacks of Soothing Stream, but it's quite effective.  You also have the two Purifier insta-heals and the Shield still to give you a buffer leading into a Deluge.  Cascade helps with mana issues and you still have several options for dealing with AoE damage.  Orbs of the Stream is great for dealing with any initial damage bursts at the beginning of an encounter.  I usually put it on the main tank a few seconds after he initiates an encounter.

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Venkman
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Reply #190 on: March 18, 2011, 04:53:25 PM

Up to 26 so far on my necro/pyro/dom mage - full necro, 7 or 8 in dom for squirrel and 2 insta DDs, and 0 in pyro for another insta DD.

That might be my next route. At 21 I'm mostly Pyro with 4 in Elem and 6 in Chloro for Bloom. The Earth pet is getting weaker but still holds aggro well enough. And while I'm drinking after every fight, anything up to 4 level+1 is easy mode as long as I keep remembering to keep Withering Vine and Radiant Spores going. But I keep hearing great things about Necro pets and DoTs and haven't messed much with Dom.
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Reply #191 on: March 23, 2011, 08:51:39 AM

I was thinking of dropping my earth ele. pet at 30 but with "mind wipe" (sheds aggro) in the Dom. tree it's like having a pet with lvl 50 taunt ability.  Problem is the cooldown. 

Anyone have any advice for a Warlock build?

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Reply #192 on: March 23, 2011, 03:58:01 PM

Reaver question: does Grisly Works trigger when something you damaged dies or only when you strike the killing blow?

I'm rocking my Reaver/Paladin at 39 now.  Swapped out 0-point Champion around 33?, which I kept mostly for it's Bull Rush, for RiftBlade and its Storm Blade once I got the Pally's Shield Rush and it was like shifting into the next higher gear.  Still very happy as a warrior, which is unusual for me, and I love all the theorycrafting with the characters even though I'm too busy with my warrior to do more than dream about the other classes.  Too bad I really really hate some of the Vision design decisions like cloning WoW's Auction House instead of EQ2's broker but without the possibility of using addons to alleviate the suck, seriously low prioritizing of crafting issues, lack of housing, lack of appearance tab, lack of mentoring, single-point bank, piss-on-you moneysinks EVERYWHERE and that infuriating running away debuf  Mob have led me to switch from the 6-mo Founders Subscription to the monthly plan so I can bail at will.  It looks like I'll last more than one month, but I have serious doubts about making it through 3 months.  And since the pressure for leaving is building up from deliberate annoyances by the devs rather than just a general boredom from having consumed all the content I was interested in, I'm likely to leave bitter and much less willing to give it another try later.  And that really saddens me.

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Reply #193 on: March 27, 2011, 08:30:25 PM

Anyone have a good low level warrior PVP build? I hear Riftblade is pretty nice, but I wasn't sure what to pair with it. Reaver? Champion?

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Reply #194 on: March 27, 2011, 08:33:57 PM

Riftblade + reaver rocks the early levels, all the way up to the 40s were riftblade stops scaling and the reaver aoe dots stop doing any significant dmg.

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nurtsi
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Reply #195 on: March 27, 2011, 10:04:56 PM

Riftblade/Reaver as mentioned. It can do basically anything expect heal others with one spec.

If you don't want to run around with the same build as everyone else, I also like BM/champion. Ridiculous damage both single target and AOE (with dots, so it sucks a bit in PVP) and you can self heal which makes soloing pretty trivial.

Both are getting nerfed hard in 1.1, so enjoy while it lasts.
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Reply #196 on: March 27, 2011, 10:38:41 PM

I went with the champion / paragon / riftblade build on my alt that I level exclusively via PVP... it's nothing special until 18, but then it starts to pick up steam and at the mid-30s (where I'm now) it becomes a one-dwarf pain train. I'm almost always top damage (usually by a large margin) even if our side doesn't have healers. The build is insane at killing any kind of FC / fang-holder / node-defender, since battlefield intimidation can aoe fear enemy zergs (most importantly healers), you get a knockback early on that can punt undesirable tanks off hills and whatnot (or people out of LOS for their healers), a reliable hamstring, a passive mortal strike that's basically always up (VERY important in my experience), an interrupt, an execute, and the ability to kill someone in 2 GCDs if you get some procs lined up, preferably from just having killed someone. Oh yeah, and +30% damage if someone crits you (even with a dot tick or something silly), which stacks with the base finisher in paragon that gives you +30% ability damage for 12 sec.

Go heavy into champion first, picking up the AOE fear (very important), the in-combat charge and the talent that makes you stun people when you charge. Put leftover points into paragon, avoiding all DW talents; after you get 31 points in champion for titan's strike, put the other points into paragon until you get the disarm.

fake edit: tanks/riftblades are the hardest to fight, but disarm helps push things into your favor... also jousting and using the 3-second intercept every 15 seconds.

real edit: Note that this build IS getting a nerf next patch, but as I understand it, it's mostly the length of titan strike's stun, and fixing the 100% armor bypass bug. Also, you'll need a good blue-quality weapon that you upgrade every 5 levels; puzzles/cairns are good for that, or you can do instances / use the AH.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 10:41:45 PM by Zetor »

nurtsi
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Reply #197 on: March 28, 2011, 10:25:19 PM

I went with the champion / paragon / riftblade build on my alt that I level exclusively via PVP...

I tried this yesterday and (at 36) and it does bring the pain if you can just reach your target. Sometimes critted for 1300+ on peeps (around 30% of their health typically at this level). I didn't manage to weave the paragon finisher for 30% boost yet though, so it should hit even harder if the bonus stacks with everything else.

Is there some PVP trinket that breaks all CC effects? The champion ruthless pursuit doesn't break the most common one where you just stand and can't do shit (mez?). I might try replacing the riftblade with PVP soul to get break free.
Zetor
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Reply #198 on: March 28, 2011, 10:40:55 PM

Yea, riftblade is kind of a tack-on in this build, so pvp soul should work. I actually don't see that many mezzes (when in doubt I just go for bards, they go squish after I interrupt that verse of fascination thing) compared to stuns/roots/slows. People'd rather kill me than CC me most of the time...

That's actually kind of a weakness: no real defenses outside that fear, hamstring kiting [har] and disarm at low levels. Later on you'll get a sprint to help against casters and 1-minute cooldown that gives you +75% parry chance for 10 sec to help vs melee. Still, if you have a healer (and most wfs I've done so far do have at least 1-2) against a team that doesn't know how to cc and focus fire properly (ie. most pug WFs), you become an almost-unstoppable wrecking ball.

edit: I don't use Strike Like Iron that much (you are trading off momentum for burst, and the former is generally more useful), but it's handy in some situations, ie. coordinated healers on the other team. Designate a primary and a secondary target, start working on the primary, pop SLI at 3 points if secondary target is below 75% hp, aoe fear, switch over to the secondary and burst him in the fear's duration. If you catch the healers in the fear, they'll have to choose and let one of the two die...

Another use for SLI is to use as an opener when you have 3 points going into a battle to make your early pressure much nastier. You can also use it if you're at range and won't get into melee range anytime soon (and need to spam path of the wind... which is getting a 4-second cooldown next patch btw)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 10:55:58 PM by Zetor »

Threash
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Reply #199 on: March 29, 2011, 05:53:42 AM

Popping SLI after a kill so I can bull rush bloodthirst frenzied strike flinching blade rising waterfall Deathblow is basically my main source of chain kills, it's down right scary when I can keep that going.

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Ghambit
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Reply #200 on: March 29, 2011, 05:59:17 AM

Popping SLI after a kill so I can bull rush bloodthirst frenzied strike flinching blade rising waterfall Deathblow is basically my main source of chain kills, it's down right scary when I can keep that going.

what?

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Hutch
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Reply #201 on: March 29, 2011, 06:59:38 AM

Popping SLI after a kill so I can bull rush bloodthirst frenzied strike flinching blade rising waterfall Deathblow is basically my main source of chain kills, it's down right scary when I can keep that going.

what?

I don't know what all of those things do, but maybe try reading it like this:

After a kill, activate Strike Like Iron (paragon buff that consumes attack points)
Bull Rush (champion charge) to the next target
Activate Bloodthirst, which I assume is a combat buff
Use Frenzied Strike
Use Flinching Blade
Use Rising Waterfall (paragon attack, that must follow other attacks)
Use Deathblow
Profit

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Threash
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Reply #202 on: March 29, 2011, 08:12:48 AM

Bloodthirst is an instant no global cooldown attack that autocrits which becomes available each time you kill someone, frenzied strike is an instant no global cooldown attack which becomes available each time you crit, flinching strike is a paragon no global cooldown attack that interrupts spells with a 10s cooldown and it triggers follow up attacks, rising waterfall is a paragon follow up attack that hits hard and has extra chance to crit, deathblow is a finisher which does a shit ton of damage but is only available when the target is under 30% health.  Basically i charge someone, unleash 4-5 instant hits and then finish them.  

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Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #203 on: March 29, 2011, 08:37:53 AM

what?

I think what he said was 6, 1, E, Q, ctrl+3, 2, 5.

(Actually I lie, I don't have Strike Like Iron in my hotbar atm, but I keep meaning to shove it in there somewhere. I used to use the Riftblade fire damage proc in much the same way, however.)

Bloodthirst with the 100% crit upgrade was also the point where PvE entered ezy-grind mode for my Champion. Two extra instant attacks (one of which is guaranteed to crit) at the beginning of each fight makes everything die a lot faster.
dd0029
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Reply #204 on: March 29, 2011, 09:26:31 AM

So I had some fun last night with my Paladin/Reaver tank. I had just noticed and respeced into the Paladin tier 6 talent "Tip the Balance". For 1 point this heals the you for 50% of the damage done from "Balance of Power" which does 160% of weapon damage on blocked attacks. So with my crappy sword it heals for about 40 with 1 point.

So, I'd tried it out on packs of four-eight and it worked well. I was ending fights with 90-95% health, but I thought most of that healing was coming from Plaguebringer/Soul Feast/Soul Devour. 

There was a big invasion in Gloomwood. That first outpost in from Silverwood in the north was completely over run. So I figure to try out the new block heal thing on this pack. I accidentally/on purpose pulled maybe 15 mobs. They could not hurt me. I pulled everything. Maybe 6 full invasion packs. They could not even dent me.  Granted I had 15 levels on them, but still.  awesome, for real
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Reply #205 on: March 29, 2011, 11:48:24 AM

They are nerfing the crap out of that Paladin Tip the Balance heal so its going to be worthless later this week, and they are nerfing the Reaver's damage based heals.  As they are now I could effectively solo a non boss elite mob of an equal level as a Pally/Reaver, about 5 equal mobs, or hordes of lower level mobs.  It was also a good tank build because the healer wasn't under so much pressure.

But after the changes go in this week there's not going to really be an awesome true tank build anymore.  Too many people made videos showing players owning 30+ grey con mobs as Reaver+RB or Pally, and so morons at Trion decided that you can't be a tank without a dedicated pocket healer available at all times.

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Threash
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Reply #206 on: March 29, 2011, 11:56:32 AM

Oh please, as a pali/reaver i've charged stacks of equal level invasions and easily finished them off and come out with full health.  It's not just grey mobs, you can tank 12-15 equal level mobs easily and finish them off without any trouble and with zero downtime.  It was obviously ridiculously overpowered, frankly the crying people are doing over nerfs to things that were incredibly broken is just retarded.

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waylander
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Reply #207 on: March 29, 2011, 12:28:47 PM

Oh please, as a pali/reaver i've charged stacks of equal level invasions and easily finished them off and come out with full health.  It's not just grey mobs, you can tank 12-15 equal level mobs easily and finish them off without any trouble and with zero downtime.  It was obviously ridiculously overpowered, frankly the crying people are doing over nerfs to things that were incredibly broken is just retarded.

And that same build will get destroyed in an expert dungeon as it currently stands without a pocket healer paying close attention.  So if it scales so that normal mobs are an actual threat, then I can't wait to see how badly it performs in expert dungeons.

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Reply #208 on: March 29, 2011, 12:37:39 PM

I'd be thrilled if Warriors lose their role as the tank class.  What better shift from standard diku if clerics/rogues became the tanks, warriors became dps, and mages became healers. 

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Reply #209 on: March 29, 2011, 01:02:16 PM

And that same build will get destroyed in an expert dungeon as it currently stands without a pocket healer paying close attention.  So if it scales so that normal mobs are an actual threat, then I can't wait to see how badly it performs in expert dungeons.

If your reactive heals were doing so much healing that experts will now be difficult for the healer, or the "build" will get destroyed, the issue isn't they are over nerfed. No, the issue is the healer is either using a really bad spec or is really bad at healing and the other possible issue is that the tank has other stat/gear issues going on and possibly bad as well. There are many tanks not even using specs with those reactive heals and have no problems plowing through all the content available.


I'd be thrilled if Warriors lose their role as the tank class.  What better shift from standard diku if clerics/rogues became the tanks, warriors became dps, and mages became healers.  

FWIW: There are guilds using rogue tanks in raid rifts and green scale currently and doing just fine, after the itemization patch I'm sure we'll hear more of this as that is more the issue than anything - it's tough to get the toughness and tank stats on non-warrior tanks currently but is doable. I haven't heard of clerics main tanking in GS yet, but I'd guess they're out there as we've used cleric tanks for GS trash/off tanking and raid rifts
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