LFD

[Rasix]

Yegolev quality.  Good work.

Point stands, derpity derp derp as it is it.  IMO, WoW was at its absolute best for casuals when it removed as much need for social interaction as possible.

[Malakili]

Basically, I would have to re-learn how to play if I wanted to do it the allegedly "optimal" way, but I doubt very much it would rocket my gaming ability up so high it would be worth the effort.

I think this is the disconnect.  To me that learning to play IS the fun part of any game.  So if it means I have to really start from scratch, well, not such a big deal in principle. Granted, sometimes I reach a point where I really need to start from scratch, but I don't have the time to invest, usually I quit those games.

[Ratman_tf]

Yegolev quality.  Good work.

Point stands, derpity derp derp as it is it.  IMO, WoW was at its absolute best for casuals when it removed as much need for social interaction as possible.

There was a time when I would have agreed with you. Now, I think those kinds of players would be better served with a solo online game that has ongoing content patches. It's already happening with Bioware style DLC.

[Paelos]

I think this is the disconnect.  To me that learning to play IS the fun part of any game.  So if it means I have to really start from scratch, well, not such a big deal in principle. Granted, sometimes I reach a point where I really need to start from scratch, but I don't have the time to invest, usually I quit those games.

Don't take this as a shot, man, but we covered this with you already in that other thread. I think we can point to that as the reason and move on. You are different than a lot of gamers on this community and the fact that you only have two speeds: zero or 200mph, is a mentality you may eventually want to temper as you get older. Lest it drive you nuts.

[Malakili]

You are different than a lot of gamers on this community and the fact that you only have two speeds: zero or 200mph, is a mentality you may eventually want to temper as you get older. Lest it drive you nuts.

Its not really a choice...

[Paelos]

You are different than a lot of gamers on this community and the fact that you only have two speeds: zero or 200mph, is a mentality you may eventually want to temper as you get older. Lest it drive you nuts.

Its not really a choice...

This isn't like being born a certain race. Saying you aren't in control of your mental approach to your entertainment is a copout.

[Merusk]

Alternatively, if you really ARE that much of a Type-A, why are you wasting that drive on a video game instead of your career.

[Malakili]

Alternatively, if you really ARE that much of a Type-A, why are you wasting that drive on a video game instead of your career.

I'm not going to derail this thread with a discussion of my approach to video games, so I'm bowing out.   If you want to talk to me about it, PM me.

[apocrypha]

I think it's easy to forget how much of a difference to your DPS it can make if you're not paying attention, are slow to target & change targets, if you sausage-finger your rotation badly, etc.

Did a LFD dungeon today for the first time in 2 weeks (had shingles, been too painful to sit down) and managed to pull about 8k on my elemental shaman. Normally I do 12-14k, and I did indeed manage than on the end boss (it was Grim Batol), but I was all over the place at first.

So if being a bit out of practice (and away with the fairies on meds) can almost halve my DPS I can easily see how keyboard turning, button clicking, bad gear choices (I'm sure I've mentioned our guild enhance shaman who for the longest time wore caster gear cos she casts lots spells), not focussed, throw in some latency and low framerate for good measure could all combine to produce very, very low DPS from people.

[Sjofn]

Shingles sucks! My dad had it once when I was little, I wasn't allowed to hug him. :(

[Kageru]

I'm trying to work out why I just don't feel any love for wow any more.

I think it's a combination of things. A large part of which is also the age of the game and the boredom that engenders.

1) The LFD thing means these people are totally anonymous. So there's little reason to consider them as fellow players. We're not going to chat, we're not going to discuss tactics and in most cases if stuff goes badly they're going to cancel out.

2) They've tried to make the instances like mini-raids. Reasonably challenging and full of scripted events. That's great for the easily bored and ADHD console players but old farts and chatty social gamers not so much (I'm in both). This is an intentional side effect of them going for the mass market.

3) The dungeon is a points dispenser primarily. So people expect to be able to run it fast to get to the points. I somewhat miss the old EQ "camp an area and chat" (though I wonder if I'd find that boring if I had to re-do it). The loot is not interesting, working out tactics is inefficient. You should have watched the youtube tactics video in advance so you don't have to stop running forward. And if you fail then expect PUG's to fragment. The random drops from a deep drop table did not encourage this hamster wheel sprinting in the same way. Likewise if the content is old, forget it.

4) I just don't really care (due to the fatique with the game). I'm not excited to get points which might buy a piece of armor with bigger numbers.

Heck, I'm even enjoying Eve (which is a terrible game) because I can sort of chill out and chat while playing it). Though it goes maybe a little too far.

[Paelos]

I'm just going to point to this recent blue post about something from LFD and their design points:

We know there’s room for improvement, though. For example, we understand that it's probably not the best idea to have optional bosses dropping loot that's BiS. Giving those bosses side-grades (rather than strict upgrades) or similar items could make the "extra loot" vs. "quicker run" decision less stressful. We also feel that optional bosses in general might work better in raids than in dungeons because raids tend to be made up of players who know each other and/or have a strong leader who's empowered to make calls about which bosses to kill.

Heroic Halls of Origination is a good example of where optional bosses can cause conflicts. In retrospect, we feel that it may have been better to require players to kill all four of the "top" bosses -- Isiset, Ammunae, Setesh, and Rajh -- to get credit for their random Heroic dungeon rewards (instead of just Rajh). While we don't yet know if retrofitting the dungeon or the random dungeon reward requirements is the best course of action, we've learned a lot from watching groups, reading your feedback, and just playing ourselves. We’re definitely keeping those lessons in mind as we develop future content and if we do make any changes, we'll be sure to let you know.

I think they are right to look back on their content are draw the correct conclusions. Optional bosses in 5 mans are a stupid idea since it's all about points. However, I still don't understand their policy of throwing their hands up and saying there is nothing they can do. If you feel it may have been better to require people to kill all the bosses, just change it. We're not talking about something very complicated here. It's another situation where it's actions speaking louder than words, and Blizzard is taking the stance that changing anything (even if it's admittedly stupid) is a long, drawn out process if it happens at all.

[Sjofn]

If they changed it, the fury would be amazing, that's why.

[Rendakor]

An easy fix for HoO would be to just split it into two instances, upper and lower, then require full clears for each (say, put a gate in front of Rajh that doesn't open until you kill the other three). Suddenly you've taken the longest (if you full clear) heroic and made it into two new, short ones.

[Paelos]

If they changed it, the fury would be amazing, that's why.

Oh it would be classic. I just don't understand people who admit they messed up and do absolutely nothing to fix it.

[Fordel]

That's how Blizzard rolls, they fix it in the NEXT dungeon/class-review/expansion etc.