Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 20, 2025, 04:18:58 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Movies  |  Topic: The Dark Knight Rises 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 Go Down Print
Author Topic: The Dark Knight Rises  (Read 124688 times)
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240


Reply #420 on: August 31, 2012, 08:46:00 AM

For what it's worth, I agree with you entirely.

It needed work.

I enjoyed it.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19324

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #421 on: August 31, 2012, 10:28:54 AM

-Wow, the first Catwoman portrayal that had an ounce of dignity. The body suit isn't skin-tight with the cleavage cut out, and she isn't an overly flirty sexpot and the whole goggles-into-catears thing was clever as hell.

Very much agree.  Also by far the sexiest Catwoman IMO, precisely because she wasn't a teenage boy's caricature of "sexy".
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240


Reply #422 on: August 31, 2012, 11:21:28 AM

Oh, be fair Sam :  she was still Anne Hathaway.

Which is a teenage boys caricature of 'sexy'.

Also, fight scenes where legs were impossibly splayed and bending over batbike.

There was a LITTLE caricature there.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19324

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #423 on: August 31, 2012, 11:45:52 AM

I think my point is best illustrated by comparing Anne Hathaway's Catwoman to Halle Berry's Catwoman.  It's not like either of them are hard on the eyes, but stuff like this is just too stupid to be sexy:

HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #424 on: August 31, 2012, 12:02:47 PM

God, Halle Berry's Catwoman was so bad on so many levels. The worst part was that Berry was probably the BEST THING IN THE MOVIE. IN THAT IDIOTIC OUTFIT.

Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978

~Living the Dream~


WWW
Reply #425 on: August 31, 2012, 12:34:42 PM

Oh, be fair Sam :  she was still Anne Hathaway.

Which is a teenage boys caricature of 'sexy'.

Also, fight scenes where legs were impossibly splayed and bending over batbike.

There was a LITTLE caricature there.

And she's still the most dignified version of Catwoman to hit the screen. Kinda gives you an idea of the quality we're working with here in terms of Batman movies.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #426 on: August 31, 2012, 12:42:06 PM

Hey, Eartha Kitt was all dignity.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240


Reply #427 on: August 31, 2012, 01:46:47 PM

Ok, point taken.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
shiznitz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268

the plural of mangina


Reply #428 on: September 04, 2012, 11:32:17 AM

Michelle Pfeiffer catwoman > Anne Hathaway catwoman.  Anne Hathaway is not even in the ballpark of Michelle Pfeiffer hotness.

I have never played WoW.
Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848


Reply #429 on: September 04, 2012, 12:14:47 PM

Disagree.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590


Reply #430 on: September 04, 2012, 01:03:05 PM

Batman2 catwoman was slutty, hot but slutty.  Rises catwoman was sultry, biiiig difference once you become an adult.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #431 on: September 04, 2012, 02:55:32 PM

Pfeiffer Catwoman was WAY WAY too campy. It was the best part of Batman Returns because other than 1 scene that had nothing to do with costumes in the middle of the movie, the rest of the movie was utter and complete shit.

Hathaway's Catwoman was superior in every single way unless you are measuring campiness.

Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240


Reply #432 on: September 04, 2012, 03:02:20 PM

Didn't her catwoman actually lick herself at one point ?  I was fairly sure that was when I stopped watching.

Then again, that movie played Catwoman as a brain damaged secretary that had fallen out a building, so maybe it scanned.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #433 on: September 04, 2012, 03:03:58 PM

Didn't her catwoman actually lick herself at one point ? 

Yes, she did. And a Danny Devito Penguin that add raw fish by biting their heads off, bled and drooled black bile and ran for mayor of Gotham.

It really was fuckawful.

Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240


Reply #434 on: September 04, 2012, 03:05:02 PM

Wasn't that only the second one ?

Jeez.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590


Reply #435 on: September 04, 2012, 05:35:16 PM

Overall I didn't mind the burton films for what they were but I was also a teenage boy at the time.  Watching them again they just don't hold up but I believe that's because of me and not the films.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #436 on: September 05, 2012, 04:05:49 AM

Hathaway's Catwoman was superior in every single way unless you are measuring campiness.

Or unless you are measuring by number of Michelle Pfeiffers. Which is probably the most important measurement.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Minvaren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1676


Reply #437 on: September 05, 2012, 07:25:20 PM

Overall I didn't mind the burton films for what they were but I was also a teenage boy at the time.

The entire theater cheered in the first one when the Batwing paused in front of the moon.  Myself included.   Ohhhhh, I see.

That's many times the reaction of any studio audience I've seen for the Nolan films (though I didn't see Begins in the theater).

"There are many things of which a wise man might wish to remain ignorant." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8046


Reply #438 on: September 07, 2012, 12:48:32 AM

Michelle Pfeiffer catwoman > Anne Hathaway catwoman.  Anne Hathaway is not even in the ballpark of Michelle Pfeiffer hotness.

I've got to agree. Anne Hathaway did a good job but her character was written sort of oddly. One of many elements of the movie that are jarring once I've had some time away from it to think about it. I just caught Returns on cable the other night and was struck by how much more interesting Michelle Pheiffer's take on the character was. Ignoring the supernatural elements her character was just flat out more interesting. Insane, predatory, and sexy as hell. Sure there was a bit of camp but it wasn't that bad with her character.

I don't know, the longer I've been away from TDKR the weaker it feels as a movie especially as a third movie for the Nolan Batman series. It's not a bad movie but it's just not worthy of being part of the Nolan Batman mythos. The writing in it just felt....lazy in so many ways.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #439 on: September 07, 2012, 08:14:27 AM

how much more interesting Michelle Pheiffer's take on the character was.

I...

Quote
Ignoring the supernatural elements her character was just flat out more interesting.

I...

Quote
Insane, predatory, and sexy as hell. Sure there was a bit of camp but it wasn't that bad with her character.


Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240


Reply #440 on: September 07, 2012, 08:52:03 AM

Yeah, I didn't really get it either.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8046


Reply #441 on: September 07, 2012, 08:41:31 PM

Batman Returns in general had lots of camp especially in everything involving the penguin but the camp with Catwoman was more restrained. *shrugs* I just found her take more interesting than Anne Hathaway's. I think I'm having trouble getting past the way her role was written and how her relationship with Batman/Bruce Wayne played out in TDKR. It feels like maybe there was a big section of script that disappeared.

1) She steals his mother's necklace, oh, and also kicks his cane out from under him. Also, gets his fingerprints which are used to ruin him financially later in the movie.
2) He shows up and helps her out, offers her the software program to clear her record. She betrays him and he gets his back broken for his trouble. Sure, she looks guilty while she watches but still...
3) He returns after healing and she helps him after apparently growing a conscience.
4) After his "Death" she shows up with him in a scene that clearly alludes to them being romantically involved despite them having had no onscreen time to develop feelings for each other.

 Basically, that whole plot line makes Batman seem like a naive chump, has her inconsistently characterized and has them get romantically involved in the final frame of the movie and the only reason for it seems to be "Hey, it's in the comics."

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #442 on: September 07, 2012, 09:43:55 PM

I thought there was enough onscreen sexual tension between her and Wayne to justify a bit of the old in-out later in the movie off screen. As for Wayne being a naive chump, well, he did fall into bed with Talia pretty quickly. And then there's the whole "I'll give up being Batman to have Maggie Gyllenhall" thing in The Dark Knight even though she clearly chose Harvey Dent. His track record with women in the movies and the comics has never been healthy.

As for how you see Pfeiffer's Catwoman as restrained... really? At one point in the movie, SHE LICKS HERSELF AND FUCKING MEOWS. While her performance was good, the whole part was campy as hell and would have fit right in alongside Adam West's Batman.

Ubvman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 182


Reply #443 on: September 08, 2012, 02:19:35 AM

The Burton movies haven't aged well in the light of subsequent (and arguably) better superhero movies made by both Marvel and DC.

What I will give Burton though is that he was the first major film-maker that actually read the contemporary (late 80s) source comicbook material, took into account comic reader sentiment and at least had a healthy respect for the source material. From what I remember, I believe Burton stated that he was a comicbook reader and fan himself (the first major filmmaker to be so). Is that true?*

As for Hathaway's Selina Kyle (never called Catwoman at all in the movie), any number of actresses could have taken the role and done a competent job at it. The character is very blandly written. While I don't expect Pfeiffer's crazy cat lady shtick, at least Pfieffer was memorable to say the least. Selina Kyle is the CATWOMAN. Here she is just a kinda above average cat burglar with funky ear-peices. Ya, kind of missing the leather whips and claws and the bdsm imagery.

The same can be said for Talia Al-Ghul too. You establish her as an ultimate kick-asser in the movie that escaped the most hellish prison pit in existence but all she does later is stab batman in the ribs and get croaked in a truck mishap.





Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15189


Reply #444 on: September 08, 2012, 04:15:30 AM

Wait, Burton had respect for the source? For one, casting Michael Keaton is pretty much taking a dump on the character right at the start. In Returns, Batman kills a henchman casually and gloats about it. I wasn't wild about the movies at the time but they're just terrible to watch now--Burton's trademark plot incoherence plus awful scripts really make them hard to endure. The only respect I see for the source material is in the visual designs.
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #445 on: September 08, 2012, 08:05:59 AM

At one point in the movie, SHE LICKS HERSELF AND FUCKING MEOWS.

So has just about every version of Catwoman.

Quote
Lee Meriwether was even more catlike with her poses and behavior. In the movie, she is even seen licking herself as cats do, taking Catwoman a bit more to the cat side




To be honest. In comparison to every single version of catwoman on screen, on the little screen or animated. The Anne Hathaway catwomon is one of the most conservative, and understated characters presented. She was a stiff board in comparison.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:22:13 AM by Mrbloodworth »

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Margalis
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12335


Reply #446 on: September 08, 2012, 08:17:31 AM

What I will give Burton though is that he was the first major film-maker that actually read the contemporary (late 80s) source comicbook material, took into account comic reader sentiment and at least had a healthy respect for the source material. From what I remember, I believe Burton stated that he was a comicbook reader and fan himself (the first major filmmaker to be so). Is that true?

I am pretty sure this is pretty much exactly the opposite of reality. IIRC Tim Burton was proud of the fact that he had never read a comic book.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #447 on: September 08, 2012, 08:29:42 AM

I'm not sure what people were expecting with Catwoman.  This entire Batman trilogy has been a bit more "realistic" in its portrayal of the characters than previous versions.   I thought the way they included Catwoman seemed perfectly plausible for the world they created for this trilogy, a nutty catwoman running around meowing wouldn't have fit at all.
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8046


Reply #448 on: September 08, 2012, 10:28:35 AM

I thought there was enough onscreen sexual tension between her and Wayne to justify a bit of the old in-out later in the movie off screen. As for Wayne being a naive chump, well, he did fall into bed with Talia pretty quickly. And then there's the whole "I'll give up being Batman to have Maggie Gyllenhall" thing in The Dark Knight even though she clearly chose Harvey Dent. His track record with women in the movies and the comics has never been healthy.

Oh, there was sexual chemistry for sure but that ending scene more or less implied that she was who Wayne settled down with which didn't fit her character and wasn't really supported on-screen.

Quote
As for how you see Pfeiffer's Catwoman as restrained... really? At one point in the movie, SHE LICKS HERSELF AND FUCKING MEOWS. While her performance was good, the whole part was campy as hell and would have fit right in alongside Adam West's Batman.

No, she wouldn't have fit alongside Adam West's Batman at all. Also, keep in mind what I actually said:

Batman Returns in general had lots of camp especially in everything involving the penguin but the camp with Catwoman was more restrained.


Added bold for emphasis. I didn't say there wasn't any camp at all in her character, just that in comparison to the rest of the movie she was less campy. She had that one scene which is definitely an eye-roller but in general her performance was really good IMO. Like I said, I just watched it on cable a week or two ago so both performances are relatively fresh in my mind. Still, don't even get me started on the rest of the movie like the damned penguins with rockets on their backs...

Wait, Burton had respect for the source? For one, casting Michael Keaton is pretty much taking a dump on the character right at the start. In Returns, Batman kills a henchman casually and gloats about it. I wasn't wild about the movies at the time but they're just terrible to watch now--Burton's trademark plot incoherence plus awful scripts really make them hard to endure. The only respect I see for the source material is in the visual designs.


I have to totally disagree here. Michael Keaton is the best thing about the Burton Batman movies. In particular his take on Bruce Wayne is excellent within that particular movie-verse. He played Bruce Wayne as a little crazy and damaged and I liked that.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #449 on: September 08, 2012, 10:44:15 AM

Yea I didn't dislike Michael Keaton after I saw the movie. I did dislike the choice when it was first announced though. And I really didn't like Burton doing it, nor the result. I don't know why he keeps getting gigs. He needs to be a video game world designer or a IP world builder or something that focuses on the thing he loves doing (set pieces) instead of the everything-else he isn't good at.
naum
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4263


WWW
Reply #450 on: September 08, 2012, 11:32:18 AM

I liked the Michael Keaton Batman movies, the 2nd one (with Danny Devito and Christopher Walken) even better than the 1st. Keaton had the good sense to jump off that steamer before that series rendition went totally adrift. I know I smack against a lot of folk, but the Jack Nicholson joker was wrong, and so much so, that he got top billing for it, and failed to do the role justice. He transformed the role into "Jack Nicholson" stock, instead of playing "the Joker". In TDK, Heath Ledger performance renders Nicholson's take as amateur hour.

AFA Catwoman in the 2nd Keaton flick, I found Pfeifer depiction rather unremarkable, plus or minus.

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15189


Reply #451 on: September 08, 2012, 02:26:05 PM

Man, I think "Returns" is a horrible mess of a film. It's a queasy mix of Burton's trademark Gothic whimsy and camp, with fecal characterization and an incoherent plotline to stank it up even more. Christopher Walken is kind of fun in it and I don't hate Pfeiffer's Catwoman except when she's compelled to deliver terrible lines.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #452 on: September 08, 2012, 05:06:44 PM

Yeah, Burton's take on Batman was a goddamn joke. The first one was closer to the source material than any of the three that followed but it still had too much of Burton's stink on it. Keaton did a fantastic job with the role, and he was actually better as Bruce Wayne in Returns than the original but he had more of a conflicted role with the romance with Selina Kyle than Vicki Vale. Returns works great if you just take out all the parts with costumes in it - the scene with Kyle and Wayne dancing is one of the most perfect moments of cinematic genius I've ever seen. The rest of the movie is Burton taking a steaming dump on the entire Batman mythos. I can appreciate the first Batman movie for what it is, but it doesn't age well.

As for Selina Kyle "settling" for Bruce Wayne, I don't think she does. Her whole reason for doing what she does during the entire movie is to scrub her criminal past. She clearly wants to get a fresh start, to escape who and what she has been and will do anything to get that. She'll do anything to get it, even set up the Batman, who she didn't know was Wayne. When she finds out, she's remorseful. Being trapped in a Gotham that has gone 99% crazy, she starts to see what the "do what I want to please myself" thing has done to her reflected in the chaos of Gotham. That's why she risks herself to save Batman and Gotham. I think her character has a lot more nuance than you give her credit for.

Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #453 on: September 08, 2012, 06:46:18 PM

The soundtrack for the first Batman movie is enormously important historically, in that it marks probably the biggest step to date in the mainstreaming of electronic music, at the time it came out.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
UnSub
Contributor
Posts: 8064


WWW
Reply #454 on: September 08, 2012, 07:29:14 PM

The soundtrack for the first Batman movie is enormously important historically, in that it marks probably the biggest step to date in the mainstreaming of electronic music, at the time it came out.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I blame you for making me watch this:

Prince - Batdance

Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Movies  |  Topic: The Dark Knight Rises  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC