2011 College Football

[01101010]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6784149/ncaa-hits-lsu-one-year-probation-recruiting-restrictions

Did not see this coming.. could have been worse, and in terms of NCAA sanctions, this is probably the least penalty the Tigers could have got - and from the article, it seems the LSU athletic dept are responsible for not getting the team fucked. And all because of an assistant coach...

[Paelos]

It's pretty much how you should handle the situation. Go figure that LSU would be the one to learn that the coverup is always worse than the crime.

[Hutch]

Columbus Dispatch: NCAA finds no new violations in Ohio State investigation

(alternative title: Suck It, OSU Haterz)

Well I'll be damn. This doesn't mean there won't be more sanctions, come Aug 12.  But, if the NCAA didn't find anything new in their investigation, maybe they'll take what's already been self-imposed, add to that their own looming hypocrisy on the matter, and call it a draw.

[Paelos]

I agree with that finding. There's no evidence it was anything other than Tressel ignoring the rules. That said, they still can't let them off for playing ineligible players all season with no suspensions or scholarship loss.

[ghost]

Remember when I told you OSU wouldn't be getting a big penalty........?   

[Paelos]

Remember when I told you OSU wouldn't be getting a big penalty........?   

I never believed it was a lack of institutional control. That's a bigger deal. This was Tressel fucking the system, and they should be held accountable for not doing anything about that. I don't think they should be given the same penalty as USC. I think they should lose 3-10 scholarships, get a 1 year bowl ban, and a 3 year probation.

[ghost]

I never believed it was a lack of institutional control. That's a bigger deal. This was Tressel fucking the system, and they should be held accountable for not doing anything about that. I don't think they should be given the same penalty as USC. I think they should lose 3-10 scholarships, get a 1 year bowl ban, and a 3 year probation.

But it was a lack of institutional control.  There are verified instances of Tressel being chastised by the University for lack of "self reporting" incidents around the program.  That, combined with Tressel fucking the system, is the very definition of lack of institutional control. 

[Paelos]

I think it's a lack of common sense, not control. They obviously were doing their job of internally investigating and making their stuff known. Short of firing him earlier, I'm not really sure what they could have done from an institutional standpoint. They weren't ignoring it, they just kept expecting him to stop. Some could say, well you're fucking idiots for not realizing he wasn't paying attention. That could be true, but it's not an issue of control. They were doing the due diligence to say, look dude, cut this shit out.

If it were for a couple of years, I'd say the NCAA would accept their "punishment" and move on. I think the fact that they kept giving him second and third chances after so many years will probably cost them more. Thus, the bowl ban and loss of scholarships should be part of the equation. However, I don't really expect they will get the bowl ban for a year. I absolutely believe they will lose some scholarships. That's standard operating procedure in these cases.

[ghost]

I've got to disagree with you here.  They knew that Tressel wasn't reporting known violations or keeping good tabs on his players.  That is a lack of institutional control.

[Paelos]

I've got to disagree with you here.  They knew that Tressel wasn't reporting known violations or keeping good tabs on his players.  That is a lack of institutional control.

I can see where you would make that leap, but I'm not sure that it matters if it's contained to one guy.

[ghost]

The most important guy.   

[Paelos]

One guy does not make an institution though.

[Montague]

The most important guy.   

Lack of institutional control has to do with athletic department oversight and compliance, not with the head coach. It's sorta like government regulations in some respects. For example, a mechanic cutting corners and not following procedures for an airline can result in an FAA fine. If the FAA finds that the airline in question willfully disregarded the mechanic's shortcuts or lacked the system to properly oversee him and prevent that sort of thing it gets a massive fine and all of its aircraft grounded.

[Paelos]

I think we can all agree that they knew Tressell was screwing up and tried to reign him in, but they couldn't. I think we also know that his winning blinded them further. The reality is that while it wasn't a lack of control, they should certainly be punished for what happened under their watch.

[ghost]

They still aren't going to do anything to OSU.  That's the overriding point.  And it stinks of favoritism. 

[SnakeCharmer]

I gotta agree with Ghost here for the following bolded reason:

I think we can all agree that they knew Tressell was screwing up and tried to reign him in, but they couldn't. I think we also know that his winning blinded them further. The reality is that while it wasn't a lack of control, they should certainly be punished for what happened under their watch.

To me, that's textbook lack of institutional control when you can't get your head coach to quit breaking the rules.   Regardless of whether CJT was winning or fucking the football in his spare time:  they knew.  I don't blame institutions or coaches for what boosters or fans do (see Alabama/Albert Means case).  I do blame them when they (specifically "they" being the compliance staff) know and do nothing about what their staff is doing.  I see your point as well and to some degree I agree with you, but I just can't see how this ISN'T LoIC. 

[ghost]

I'm actually shocked that Paelos is sticking up for tOSU.  I mean fuck, it's goddamned Ohio State.   

[Paelos]

They still aren't going to do anything to OSU.  That's the overriding point.  And it stinks of favoritism. 

You don't know that. There's a meeting in August to determine the outcome.

I can really see 3 sides of the case here. There's the rules, there's what should have been common sense, and there's what we think should be the rules.

- On the first case, Ohio State violated the rules, but the NCAA rules it's not lack of institutional control. Meetings next month will finalize the punishments.
- On the second case, common sense would dictate that if you were telling you coach to stop violating rules and reign things in, you should have fired him rather than keep issuing warnings
- On the third case, I think Ohio State knew they were covering their asses by issuing formal warnings but it was understood that as long as Tressel won nobody would give a shit. However, at the moment the NCAA showed up they could be like, OH LOOK AT THE WARNINGS! ALL THAT GUY! HE'S GONE NOW SO WE'RE GOOD RITE?!?!

[CmdrSlack]

One guy does not make an institution though.

Tell that to the Bear.

[ghost]

- On the second case, common sense would dictate that if you were telling you coach to stop violating rules and reign things in, you should have fired him rather than keep issuing warnings
- On the third case, I think Ohio State knew they were covering their asses by issuing formal warnings but it was understood that as long as Tressel won nobody would give a shit. However, at the moment the NCAA showed up they could be like, OH LOOK AT THE WARNINGS! ALL THAT GUY! HE'S GONE NOW SO WE'RE GOOD RITE?!?!

You have described a lack of institutional control. 

[Paelos]

Can't prove it though. That's the problem.

[ghost]

OSU proved it themselves.  They sent letters to Tressel officially reprimanding for not self reporting known violations.  Then they did nothing about it until they were already in trouble.  AND, they weren't even going to fire him until their feet got super hot. 

[Paelos]

The NCAA Committee on Infractions provides the following list as a roadmap for institutions to avoid a finding of a lack of institutional control:

* The NCAA rules applicable to each operation are readily available to those persons involved in that operation.
* Appropriate forms are provided to persons involved in specific operations to ensure that they will properly follow NCAA rules.
* A procedure is established for timely communication among various university offices regarding determinations that affect compliance with NCAA rules.
* Meaningful compliance education programs are provided for personnel engaged in athletically related operations.
* Informational and educational programs are established to inform athletics boosters of the limitations on their activities under NCAA rules and of the penalties that can arise if they are responsible for rule violations.
* Informational and educational programs are established for student-athletes regarding the rules that they must follow
* An internal monitoring system is in place to ensure compliance with NCAA rules.
* An external audit of athletics compliance is undertaken at reasonable intervals.
* The chief executive officer and other senior administrators make clear that they demand compliance with NCAA rules and that they will not tolerate those who deliberately violate the rules or do so through gross negligence.
* The institution and its staff members have a long history of self-detecting, self-reporting and self-investigating all potential violations.

They maybe flubbed the second to last one, but it's up for interpretation. The rest, it's hard to fault them for. That's my point.

[ghost]

The last two have been broken by them and those are clearly the most important.  Other schools have been tagged with LOIC for less.  If it wasn't Ohio State they would be under a lot more scrutiny. 

[Paelos]

I disagree they broke the last one. They reported more than any other program for the last decade.

Lets not let our dislike of the program change the facts of the situation, Common Sense is not a bylaw.

[ghost]

However they clearly reprimanded their coach for not self reporting known violations.  So they obviously didn't report enough.  Note that in the rule it says all violations.  Not just the ones that they want to report. 

[Montague]

However they clearly reprimanded their coach for not self reporting known violations.  So they obviously didn't report enough.  Note that in the rule it says all violations.  Not just the ones that they want to report. 

Andy Geiger's reprimand was for not reporting violations in a timely manner, not for not reporting them at all. That was also six years ago, though Gene Smith's lack of written reviews doesn't give me warm fuzzies and I still think he should have gone along with Tressel.

[Paelos]

However they clearly reprimanded their coach for not self reporting known violations.  So they obviously didn't report enough.  Note that in the rule it says all violations.  Not just the ones that they want to report. 

Don't get me wrong, there will be blood over this. Just not as much as I think people who dislike the program's previous smug attitude would like. There won't be the dramatic fallout. It will be a few lost scholarships and probation. I doubt much more.

There should be a bowl ban for a year, but that's wishful thinking on my part.

[Paelos]

37 DAYS!

[ghost]

37 DAYS!

 

[01101010]

Davis gone at UNC . . .

Oddly enough, it seems more a line of thought that he had to know rather than proof he did know... makes me wonder how Oregon has hung on to Kelly this long.

[Paelos]

The NCAA has been up UNC's butt since the third week of last season. I'm shocked they didn't move him out earlier.

[ghost]

UNC is a huge bunch of smug assholes.  I'm surprised they didn't can him immediately.  So now I guess they're a bunch of smug, hypocritical assholes. 

[Paelos]

TV National Schedule for the First Week of CFB:

Thursday September 1st:
Murray State at Louisville 6:00 p.m. ESPNU (HD)
Mississippi State at Memphis 8:00 p.m. FSN (HD)
UNLV at Wisconsin 8:00 p.m. ESPN (HD) / espn3.com
Kentucky vs. Western Kentucky (Nashville) 9:15 p.m. ESPNU (HD)

Friday September 2nd:
TCU at Baylor 8:00 p.m. ESPN (HD) / espn3.com

Saturday September 3rd:
Akron at Ohio State 12:00 p.m. ESPN (HD) / espn3.com
Miami (Ohio) at Missouri 12:00 p.m. FSN (HD)
Northwestern at Boston College 12:00 p.m. ESPNU (HD)
Utah State at Auburn 12:00 p.m. ESPN2 (HD) / espn3.com
Louisiana Monroe at Florida State 3:30 p.m. ESPNU (HD)
Minnesota at USC 3:30 p.m. (ABC or ESPN2 / espn3.com) (HD) *7
South Florida at Notre Dame 3:30 p.m. NBC (HD)
UCLA at Houston 3:30 p.m. FSN (HD)
Western Michigan at Michigan 3:30 p.m. (ABC or ESPN2 / espn3.com) (HD) *7
BYU at Ole Miss 4:45 p.m. ESPN (HD) / espn3.com
East Carolina vs. South Carolina (Charlotte, NC) 7:00 p.m. FSN (HD) / espn3.com
Florida Atlantic at Florida 7:00 p.m. ESPNU (HD)
Boise State vs. Georgia (Atlanta) 8:00 p.m. ESPN (HD) / espn3.com
LSU vs. Oregon (Arlington, TX) 8:00 p.m. ABC (HD)
Tulsa at Oklahoma 8:00 p.m. FX (HD)
Colorado at Hawaii 10:15 p.m. ESPN2 (HD) / espn3.com

Monday September 5th:
Miami at Maryland 7:00 p.m. ESPN (HD) / espn3.com

[ghost]

Wow. There are actually quite a few games in there that should be awesome.  LSU versus Oregon.