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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 509387 times)
Khaldun
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Reply #1505 on: July 21, 2021, 03:07:13 PM

What, no comments on Captain Bezos and His Teeny Peeny Rocket?
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #1506 on: July 23, 2021, 07:34:58 AM

You mean soaking rich people to help fund the new space industry? I'm a-ok with that.

Just keep them away from the science missions.
Cyrrex
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Reply #1507 on: July 23, 2021, 08:47:15 AM

You mean soaking rich people to help fund the new space industry? I'm a-ok with that.

Just keep them away from the science missions.

This is the proper take on the subject.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #1508 on: July 23, 2021, 12:54:39 PM

First time for everything!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Khaldun
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Reply #1509 on: July 25, 2021, 08:32:47 PM

I think the odds of Bezos or Branson getting anywhere near serious uses of space, science or otherwise, are pretty thin. Especially Branson: his whole thing is suborbital tourism.
Sky
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Reply #1510 on: July 26, 2021, 11:19:33 AM

I think the odds of Bezos or Branson getting anywhere near serious uses of space, science or otherwise, are pretty thin. Especially Branson: his whole thing is suborbital tourism.

You seem to be employing a very narrow view of how an industry works here, though.
Khaldun
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Reply #1511 on: July 26, 2021, 02:33:50 PM

Branson's vehicle can't do anything besides take people up and down to the Karman Line. Unless you space-smart people want to tell me otherwise.

Bezos at least is allegedly building a bigger penis that could do something besides take people to suborbital space. Supposedly. I kind of think SpaceX has the market lead position sewed up.
Trippy
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Reply #1512 on: July 26, 2021, 02:50:42 PM

Yeah, Ars Technica has an article on the subject basically coming to the conclusion that Bezos doesn't care enough about Blue Origin to make it a true competitor to SpaceX.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/despite-tuesdays-fight-jeff-bezos-is-running-out-of-time-to-save-blue-origin/
Sky
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Reply #1513 on: July 27, 2021, 06:41:50 AM

Unless he's building it out of pipe cleaners and crewing it with oompa loompas, it's industry jobs in an industry that was much smaller and closed only a few years ago. Unless he's building all the stuff in-house, that's a support infrastructure. These are all investments in the industry in general, in space tech and people.

It doesn't have to compete with SpaceX, it just has to exist. It doesn't need to succeed, in fact it will be great if it wears the public face of some failures to save face for SpaceX and NASA, which can learn from the mistakes without the blowback. And it's good to have things that /aren't/ SpaceX-like. Variety can also spur innovation. Prior to this we had a single monopoly on Space and little innovation. If nothing else, it might mean better seats and grub for our astronauts somewhere down the line. But I think there will be more cross-pollination in many ways.

Are saying less space travel is better for the space industry? Setting aside the massive waste of hydrocarbons.

01101010
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Reply #1514 on: July 27, 2021, 10:07:24 AM

I am under the impression that Virgin and Blue Origin are angling for low orbit space tourism and fleecing the millionaire/billionaire clubs out of their money and SpaceX is more into exploration for the possible tax dollar support at some point.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Sky
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Reply #1515 on: July 27, 2021, 11:50:06 AM

I couldn't have made it any clearer that Bezos and Branson are going to be the leaders of deep space exploration.
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Reply #1516 on: July 27, 2021, 12:22:12 PM

It doesn't have to compete with SpaceX, it just has to exist. It doesn't need to succeed, in fact it will be great if it wears the public face of some failures to save face for SpaceX and NASA, which can learn from the mistakes without the blowback.
As mentioned in the article it would be better if SpaceX had a direct competitor like it used to be for these large-scale government aerospace projects like Boeing vs McDonnell Douglas, Boeing vs Lockheed, etc. Blue Origin is developing a heavy lifter (the New Glenn) to compete directly with SpaceX in that market but they are way behind right now.
Khaldun
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Reply #1517 on: July 27, 2021, 05:46:42 PM

Wait, I seriously do not get "Branson and Bezos are going to be the leaders in deep space exploration". Honestly. Does not compute. The only things I can see them being the leaders in is fleecing multi-millionaires who want a minute of semi-fake weightlessness.

I understand the argument that "well, at least they're employing people" but there are a whole lot of much worse things that could be defended on similar grounds. "At least the nuclear physicists have a job building cobalt bombs!" "At least the pyrotechnic specialists have a job doing fireworks for Trump 2024!" etc.
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #1518 on: July 28, 2021, 05:39:29 AM

Wait, I seriously do not get "Branson and Bezos are going to be the leaders in deep space exploration". Honestly. Does not compute. The only things I can see them being the leaders in is fleecing multi-millionaires who want a minute of semi-fake weightlessness.

I understand the argument that "well, at least they're employing people" but there are a whole lot of much worse things that could be defended on similar grounds. "At least the nuclear physicists have a job building cobalt bombs!" "At least the pyrotechnic specialists have a job doing fireworks for Trump 2024!" etc.

Ok, just checking.
Sir T
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Reply #1519 on: July 30, 2021, 07:17:50 AM

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/russias-nauka-space-module-experiences-problem-after-docking-with-iss-ria-2021-07-29

Quote
International Space Station thrown out of control by misfire of Russian module -NASA

July 29 (Reuters) - The International Space Station (ISS) was thrown briefly out of control on Thursday when jet thrusters of a newly arrived Russian research module inadvertently fired a few hours after it was docked to the orbiting outpost, NASA officials said.

The seven crew members aboard - two Russian cosmonauts, three NASA astronauts, a Japanese astronaut and a European space agency astronaut from France - were never in any immediate danger, according to NASA and Russian state-owned news agency RIA.

But the malfunction prompted NASA to postpone until at least Aug. 3 its planned launch of Boeing's (BA.N) new CST-100 Starliner capsule on a highly anticipated uncrewed test flight to the space station. The Starliner had been set to blast off atop an Atlas V rocket on Friday from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

Thursday's mishap began about three hours after the multipurpose Nauka module had latched onto the space station, as mission controllers in Moscow were performing some post-docking "reconfiguration" procedures, according to NASA.

The module's jets inexplicably restarted, causing the entire station to pitch out of its normal flight position some 250 miles above the Earth, leading the mission's flight director to declare a "spacecraft emergency," U.S. space agency officials said.

An unexpected drift in the station's orientation was first detected by automated ground sensors, followed 15 minutes later by a "loss of attitude control" that lasted a little over 45 minutes, according to Joel Montalbano, manager of NASA's space station program.

'TUG-OF-WAR'

Flight teams on the ground managed to restore the space station's orientation by activating thrusters on another module of the orbiting platform, NASA officials said.

In its broadcast coverage of the incident, RIA cited NASA specialists at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, as describing the struggle to regain control of the space station as a "tug of war" between the two modules.

At the height of the incident, the station was pitching out of alignment at the rate of about a half a degree per second, Montalbano said during a NASA conference call with reporters.

The Nauka engines were ultimately switched off, the space station was stabilized and its orientation was restored to where it had begun, NASA said.

Communication with the crew was lost for several minutes twice during the disruption, but "there was no immediate danger at any time to the crew," Montalbano said. He said "the crew really didn't feel any movement."

Hic sunt dracones.
Sir T
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Reply #1520 on: August 03, 2021, 12:43:17 PM



This pic might not look like much, but its the result of 81 months of X-ray observation of the Constellation Fornax, and every one of those is an X-Ray source, thought to be a supermassive Black Hole, all within a area that would be covered by a Full Moon.

More information here. https://chandra.si.edu/photo/2017/cdfs/

Hic sunt dracones.
Abagadro
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Reply #1521 on: August 04, 2021, 10:23:24 PM

The bottom of the SpaceX super heavy booster for the Starship looks ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423041198764265473

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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MahrinSkel
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Reply #1522 on: August 05, 2021, 06:58:06 AM

Why did they let the Shakespeare monkeys design a spaceship?

--Dave

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Trippy
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Reply #1523 on: August 05, 2021, 09:26:11 AM

It’s hard to make 29 engines crammed together look cool, unfortunately. On the plus side those 29 engines combined have twice the thrust of the Saturn V engine.
Cyrrex
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Reply #1524 on: August 05, 2021, 10:05:21 AM

I don't find that uncool.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Chimpy
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WWW
Reply #1525 on: August 05, 2021, 10:07:21 AM

Using a bunch of smaller engines to get more thrust = more complexity = more points of failure.

Just ask Korolev

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N1_(rocket)

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Trippy
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Reply #1526 on: August 05, 2021, 12:54:43 PM

Presumably it's designed to handle failures on a handful of engines and still have enough thrust for its intended payload and destination and also presumably it's able to adjust the trust vector to deal with the "imbalance". Of course if a single engine failure can cause a cascade of engine failures they yeah it's way more unreliable.
Abagadro
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Reply #1527 on: August 05, 2021, 02:51:13 PM

The N1 is exactly what I thought about when I saw the picture. One turbo pump goes boom and its going to create a massive cascade. Although they did have the same number of engines on the Falcon Heavy, they were spread across 3 different boosters so it didn't look as ridiculous.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Teleku
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Reply #1528 on: August 05, 2021, 06:56:56 PM

Yeah, it's exciting to see how it will pan out, but I fear they're being way to ambitious with Starship.  Obviously amazing if it works, but that rocket is a complex monster.  I really wish they had committed more development towards refining the Falcon Heavy's capabilities instead of just suddenly going all in on Starship.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #1529 on: August 05, 2021, 07:22:36 PM

The chain seems to have been that Kerosene or Liquid Hydrogen was never going to be anywhere as cheap per pound to orbit as Methane by an order of magnitude. And Raptor is the biggest stable Methane/LOX engine they've been able to make. So, better to blow up a few figuring it out than to refine tech that can never hit their price targets.

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Mandella
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Reply #1530 on: August 29, 2021, 10:30:58 AM

And now, for something completely different...

https://i.imgur.com/ELI9o3m.mp4

Not sure how to embed mp4? Anyhow, a better angle from Twitter:

https://twitter.com/Kemp/status/1431812555324854272

And the whole flight!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfjO7VCyjPM

Yep, it recovered and tried to make it to the stars, or at least Low Earth Orbit. Alas, this little rocket does not have the margins to get to space after an engine out. However, whatever their engine reliability, this is a good demonstrator of the effectiveness of multiple engines and modern avionics.

Plus space nerds are going to be using this as a meme source for years.
Khaldun
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Reply #1531 on: August 30, 2021, 07:18:06 PM

I watched that on Reddit with everyone hooting in the comments and I was like "what, it didn't blow up or anything hilarious, it just went sideways for a little bit and then got on track, it's the little rocket that could, what's the problem?"
Abagadro
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Reply #1532 on: August 30, 2021, 09:28:25 PM

Well, it went up. Didn't really get "on track" since one of its engines basically blew and it didn't have enough oomph to get where it was supposed to go.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Sir T
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Reply #1533 on: September 01, 2021, 09:51:20 AM

Ya, I mean that was a pretty impressive launch with one engine down. The reliability and software error handling of the thing must be A1 if that was the result of such a serious malfunction.

Props to the designers.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 06:32:29 AM by Sir T »

Hic sunt dracones.
Sir T
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Reply #1534 on: October 19, 2021, 06:34:10 AM

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-spacecraft-pushed-space-station-213532749.html

Quote
A Russian spacecraft pushed the space station out of position and sent astronauts into emergency mode - again
Morgan McFall-Johnsen
Fri, October 15, 2021, 10:35 PM·3 min read
soyuz spaceship above earth
A Soyuz spaceship carrying a Russian film crew and a cosmonaut approaches the International Space Station, October 5, 2021. NASA

    A Russian spaceship fired its thrusters and briefly pushed the International Space Station out of position on Friday morning.

    NASA told its astronauts to follow emergency procedures, according to The New York Times.

    A Russian film crew is on the ISS and scheduled to take the errant spaceship back to Earth on Sunday.

A Russian spacecraft pushed the International Space Station out of position on Friday morning, prompting astronauts to go into emergency mode. It's the second time Russian hardware has caused such an incident since July.

Cosmonaut Oleg Novitsky was conducting engine tests on the Soyuz spaceship, which is docked to the ISS, on Friday morning when its thrusters fired too aggressively. That moved the station out of its normal orientation, The New York Times reported.

The precise cause is not yet clear, but NASA mission control in Houston told its astronauts that the station had lost control of its orientation and instructed them to follow emergency procedures.

Russia's space agency, Roscosmos, later said in a statement that the ISS orientation was "temporarily changed" but "swiftly recovered," and that nobody on board was in danger.

Neither agency has revealed how much the space station moved, or for how long.

Hic sunt dracones.
Mandella
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Reply #1535 on: November 13, 2021, 11:50:25 AM

The Falcon launches from Cloud City.






(Photo credit Elon Musk's Jet)
Sir T
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Reply #1536 on: December 07, 2021, 02:56:29 AM



https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1467360044194873355

Quote
Jonathan McDowell@planet4589
 · Dec 5
Since it came up today: here is the current position of the Falcon Heavy 001 second stage, with Elon Musk's Tesla bolted to its nose, together with the current positions of Earth and Mars.


Hic sunt dracones.
Trippy
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Reply #1537 on: December 07, 2021, 01:55:41 PM

NASA Returns Hubble to Full Science Operations
Quote
NASA’s Hubble Space Telescope team recovered the Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph on Monday, Dec. 6, and is now operating with all four active instruments collecting science. The team has still not detected any further synchronization message issues since monitoring began Nov. 1.

The team will continue work on developing and testing changes to instrument software that would allow them to conduct science operations even if they encounter several lost synchronization messages in the future. The first of these changes is scheduled to be installed on the Cosmic Origins Spectrograph in mid-December. The other instruments will receive similar updates in the coming months.
Engels
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Reply #1538 on: December 25, 2021, 08:48:02 AM

Merry Telescope Launch day!

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59782057


Quote
Webb, named after one of the architects of the Apollo Moon landings, is the successor to the Hubble telescope.

Engineers working with the US, European and Canadian space agencies have built the new observatory to be 100 times more powerful, however.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

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01101010
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Reply #1539 on: December 25, 2021, 09:33:33 AM

Merry Telescope Launch day!

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59782057


Quote
Webb, named after one of the architects of the Apollo Moon landings, is the successor to the Hubble telescope.

Engineers working with the US, European and Canadian space agencies have built the new observatory to be 100 times more powerful, however.

This actually made me nervous given the amount of time and effort and money that went into making this thing and getting it into space. Now we wait and hope all the other phases go as smoothly because if it doesn't hit 100% on all those stages, it's going to be heartbreaking. Keep wondering if anything bad does happen if they'll be able to send out a crew to fix it - that would be pretty inspiring but hope it doesn't come to that.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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