The Boardgame Thread

[Rasix]

Anyone have opinions on the RPG-in-a-box type games: Mice and Mystics, Descent 2ed (soloable I've heard with the companion app), Zombicide: Black Plague, Arcadia Quest (I know this is 2 player and up, but my kid might actually like it... until I kill him), Legends of Andor, etc?

I completed the Arkham Horror campaign on Easy.  Still fudged some rules early and the starter deck, IMO, is kind of bad. I'll probably replay and just die this time.  That second scenario can really fuck you over bad. Also, the end boss is not a monster. So, that's some free damage I didn't deserve.

[Sky]

Zombicide isn't really an rpg. More of an objective-based skirmish. Still haven't made time for a Z:BP game. This is why I stopped buying games except Kingdom Death: Monster. And Massive Darkness, because of the Z:BP crossover, but I don't expect much from MD itself.

[jgsugden]

I find the RPG lites are good gateway games to see if people will enjoy the combat side of RPG games, but they're generally not satisfying to me.  If I want to RPG, I want the full experience.  If I want a board game, there are generally better games to play.  I own Mouse and Mystics, etc... but the only reason I have not sold them is they'll be a good gateway drug to introduce my son to RPGs.

[eldaec]

Anyone have opinions on the RPG-in-a-box type games: Mice and Mystics, Descent 2ed (soloable I've heard with the companion app), Zombicide: Black Plague, Arcadia Quest (I know this is 2 player and up, but my kid might actually like it... until I kill him), Legends of Andor, etc?

I completed the Arkham Horror campaign on Easy.   Still fudged some rules early and the starter deck, IMO, is kind of bad. I'll probably replay and just die this time.   That second scenario can really fuck you over bad. Also, the end boss is not a monster. So, that's some free damage I didn't deserve.

Andor is not really an RPG, more a themed puzzle game.

Imperial Assault is flat out better than Descent, much more thematic and less fiddly - it also has an app coming this year to replace the overseer. Its probably what I'd recommend most of the time.

The new hotness is Gloomhaven - lots of posts about it on the last couple of pages.

If you don't mind unfunny jokes with a total lack of production values, and you can find it, I'm a fan of Assault on Doomrock. It has a fantastic dice free combat system pared with a mediocre character development process.

[Rasix]

Anyone have opinions on the RPG-in-a-box type games: Mice and Mystics, Descent 2ed (soloable I've heard with the companion app), Zombicide: Black Plague, Arcadia Quest (I know this is 2 player and up, but my kid might actually like it... until I kill him), Legends of Andor, etc?

I completed the Arkham Horror campaign on Easy.   Still fudged some rules early and the starter deck, IMO, is kind of bad. I'll probably replay and just die this time.   That second scenario can really fuck you over bad. Also, the end boss is not a monster. So, that's some free damage I didn't deserve.

Andor is not really an RPG, more a themed puzzle game.

Imperial Assault is flat out better than Descent, much more thematic and less fiddly - it also has an app coming this year to replace the overseer. Its probably what I'd recommend most of the time.

The new hotness is Gloomhaven - lots of posts about it on the last couple of pages.

If you don't mind unfunny jokes with a total lack of production values, and you can find it, I'm a fan of Assault on Doomrock. It has a fantastic dice free combat system pared with a mediocre character development process.

Is Gloomhaven going to hit retail or is this going to be a purely kickstarter thing? It seems awfully expensive in the few places you can find it now. The whole kickstarter aspect of this hobby is not something I'm really digging. Might be beyond the boy's abilities for now, but it seems like there's an awful lot in there. I have read through what Goldenmean has posted and it does sound nice.

Imperial Assault might work. I could probably even convince the boy to play it, as Star Wars is one of the few thematic things he actually likes. Seems like this one is a bit expansion heavy.

Thanks for the info.

[Ruvaldt]

It was possible to get Gloomhaven cheaper during the Kickstarter campaign, but it wasn't exclusive to Kickstarter.  It was available in retail for $130ish or a $90 preorder, but as far as I know they only made 2,250 copies for retail and those are pretty much gone.  This is only their second game and I don't think they had the cash available for a larger run.  Until they get some more copies made expect to see it on Ebay, etc, for $200+. 

[Goldenmean]

He's going to do another kickstarter for a reprint of Gloomhaven this year, possibly as part of the kickstarter for his next game. I'll post about it here when it happens if no one else does. I get the frustration with missing kickstarter projects, but the other half of that equation is that a lot of these projects would never exist at all if it weren't for kickstarter. Gloomhaven is probably one of those.

Also, I will second eldaec's ecommendation for Assault on Doomrock (Though I wouldn't call it dice free. It uses dice, it just doesn't use them for to-hit rolls) It's hard to find (it was also a crowdfunded deal), but the used copies I've seen around aren't ridiculously priced. Should warn you though, that game is *hard*. Personally, I think any co-op you beat the first time you play is a bad co-op, but this one really is incredibly brutal. It's a fun game though. Nice abstracted tactical combat system with personalized AI decks for the enemies, which I think is my favorite feature for a game like this to have, as it makes each enemy feel unique.

[eldaec]

Actually you are right - it isn't dice free, it uses them the way a Stephan Feld game would use them, to generate the opportunities available each round.

[eldaec]

Just on Imperial Assault expansions - you really do not need them.

The only real reason to buy any at the start is because you have a man crush on a particular character and want their miniature and to force a mission built around that character into the campaign.

[Lucas]

Regarding Dungeon Crawlers, there are also the official DnD ones (you can search them all on BGG, of course). In order of release, oldest to newest:

- Castle Ravenloft
- Wrath of Ashardalon
- The Legend of Drizzt
- Temple of Elemental Evil

Now, I don't have any experience with them, but I'm sure someone around here had a chance to try them out. Latest one is "TOEE" and, from a quick glance here and there, it looks like it includes are more structured campaign mode compared to the others. In general, I think most of them have a combat system more akin to D&D 4th edition (the first three all came out during the 4th Ed. era), but I don't know if TOEE actually make use of some 5th edition rules adapted for the boardgame format.

[Ragnoros]

I really haven't found an RPG-in-a-box I like. Which saddens me.

Tried Wrath of Ashardalon recently. It was harder than I expected, a kid might have a hard time. Not very thematic either, just a bunch of grey dungeon tiles and random dudes spawn to kill. Feels like a miss.

Second Legends of Andor as a puzzle game, not an role playing, dice-chunking, combat game.

Gloomhaven sounds INCREDIBLY heavy and time intensive, doubt it would work well for a kid.

Descent 2.0 looked amazing on paper, but suffered from being a tactical objective completing game (ie. go collect five tokens, or escort a guy), not a Dungeon Crawl (ie. kill stuff, get lewt, kill more, win). As an example, when you encounter a Dragon in one mission, you chase his shadow around, then help villagers put out fires it set, what don't you do? Fight a dragon. I could see this working better in Imperial Assault, as rebels tended to be on missions to collect a thing, so it would be more thematic to be running from AT-STs, rather than annoying that you don't get to fight that big ogre or whatever. Descent 1.0 didn't suffer from this problem, but it's getting very hard to find a copy, further it's a rather mechanically heavy game and generally took 3-4 hours to finish a scenario, which probably wouldn't work for a kids game.

Mice and Mystics seemed like it should have been great, but like all the Plad Hat games I've played it suffered from a few Achilles Heel's. One issue is there are fiddly new rules for each chapter that keep the game from feeling smooth. Also, more problematic for me, is that as you fight anytime you roll a cheese (1/6 odds on each die) you move the round timer forward, which slowly spawns more monsters and eventually loses the game for you. Which was very problematic as sometimes you didn't roll much cheese, and sailed through a relatively combat free chapter, and sometimes you rolled a lot, got bogged down in spawn after spawn (spawns beget spawns, as you roll to fight) and lost a third of the way in. Still, the theme and story elements were strong, and I can only assume it would go over well as a family game. Perhaps it would be feasable to simply house-rule the round timer issues a bit.

[Goldenmean]

Sounds like the answer to your problem is just creating your own scenarios for Descent 2.0. It should be easy enough to just make a series of scenarios whose objectives are always "Kill that thing!" "Congratulations on killing that thing. Have a magic sword!" if you like the base rule system.

There's some other stuff you might want to research, though I think it's going to be hard to fulfill the "Simple enough to play with a kid" requirement. RPGs in a box tend to be fiddly by virtue of their heritage.

Super Dungeon Explore has a simple combat system, and chibi-fied miniatures which are probably appealing to the younger set. It is sort of more like a Gauntlet style computer game simulator than a proper RPG in a box if you ask me. Everything is very much "Kill that thing. Now kill that thing. And now that thing", but it sounds like that might be what you're looking for. Existing products don't have any campaign to speak of, but the Super Dungeon Explore Legends box coming out this year is meant to provide that the same way Road to Legend did for Descent 1.0

Arcadia Quest is a semi-competitive campaign dungeon crawling game. The weird part is the "competitive" part. Each player controls a guild of three adventures and they compete both against the monsters and against other players controlling competing guilds. Might suffer from the same "Objective based" issue you had with Descent 2.0

Sword and Sorcery seems like it's going to be the Galactic Defenders system ported to a traditional fantasy RPG world. Probably a bit more fiddly than Descent, which sounds like it probably puts it outside the range of "play with your kid". Also probably still several months out from release.

Dungeon Saga is probably the closest a modern game is going to offer to a classic Hero Quest experience if that sort of thing floats your boat.

And if you don't need straight fantasy, Shadows of Brimstone offers more of a Warhammer Quest-y type experience set in a dark western environment.

[Ragnoros]

Rasix, if you're willing to try the RPG "real thing" I've heard nothing but praise for Mouse Guard. Shut Up & Sit Down just posted a review today in fact.

https://www.shutupandsitdown.com/review-mouse-guard/

[Merusk]

Playing Secret Hitler this weekend. Looks like a lot of fun and argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywVzrPk6h74

[Teleku]

I've busted it out at several embassy game nights.  Been a big hit.

[schild]

I've busted it out at several embassy game nights.  Been a big hit.

Less fun now though since it's real life right?

[Teleku]

Funny you say that.  My copy of it came with these stickers to customize it:





As you can see, I've resisted making use of it, but its been oh so tempting.  I'm also sure they thought it was a lot funnier when they shipped that back in August.

[Lucas]

Finally won my first solitaire game of Core Eldritch Horror + Forsaken Lore (4 investigators vs Azathoth) after a grueling 4h30m playthrough (still have to look up at some rules errata/clarifications/exceptions from time to time) .

It was quite tense because the doom tracker was at 2 when I beat the third mystery   .

Investigators (no one died!):

Charlie Kane (lead) - Well, he departed the game and our dimension in glorious fashion, after receiving the "Lost in Time and Space" condition on his last turn. Sad!  
Jacqueline Fine - Her special "clues" ability was REALLY handy in the early game when I received two blue mythos cards that I was able to solve fairly quickly ;
Lily Chen - Haven't really used her a lot as the primary fighter 'cause I was quite lucky with the monster draw (some of them weak, others re-directed to other places, others discarded with other cards) ;
Trish Scarborough - Put the very last supernatural token on the last mystery and she combo'ed nicely with the psychic.

Mysteries solved (in order of appearance):
- Voice of Azathoth
- Occult Research
- The True Name

I was also lucky with some dice roll related to crises (avoided some bad conditions, doom tracker progress in two-three occasions,  and I never rolled a "1" with a dark pact that would have devoured one of the investigators).

Anyway,  it was fun: next Ancient One will be either Yog-Sothoth or Shub-Niggurath.

[Hawkbit]

Nice! I have yet to win, but I'm only two attempts in. The soldier went insane on turn 3 of my last game, things spiraled quickly after that. FFG announced a new small box expansion today and it looks really cool, where cities can have disasters and be 'devastated'. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/2/17/cities-in-ruin/ Plus it brings in Ashcan Pete & Duke!

I also snagged a copy of the latest AH:LCG pack so I'm all caught up on content. Now I just need to find time to play it when not playing EH.

[eldaec]

Yog is my favourite from the base set - and probably the easiest.

Bring spell casters.

[schild]

If you missed the kickstarter for the painted Tokaido, they have a few left. If you don't have the game, it's pretty good. It's basically a screensaver of a game. But you can still be competitive, as I am with it because I'm a jerk.

https://store.funforge.fr/?mc_cid=3d17e479b0&mc_eid=7f5ffe29bb

[schild]

Just noticed it was $250 more than the KS. Gross.

[eldaec]

Gloomhaven arrived today - haven't played but easily the moat impressed I've been with a kickstarter project.

[Goldenmean]

Gloomhaven arrived today - haven't played but easily the moat impressed I've been with a kickstarter project.

Seriously, can you believe you got that box for 80$? I can't imagine he made any money on the project whatsoever. It only gets better once you play it also. The game is amazing. I'm running two separate groups of players through my copy, and thinking about it or playing it occupies a ridiculous amount of my spare time. I just wish the ratios of thinking about it vs. actually getting to play it were reversed.

[Lucas]

I know, I should have resisted but, given the recent split between FF and GW I caved in and purchased Talisman 4th Edition + Reaper and Frostmarch expansions   ; I plan to at least buy the remaining small box xpacs. No matter the nostalgia factor (played the 2nd edition a lot back in the day) I still find it very very entertaining for what it is (I occasionally play the digital edition) and want to introduce it to my GF and a couple of our friends.

[eldaec]

Gloomhaven arrived today - haven't played but easily the moat impressed I've been with a kickstarter project.

Seriously, can you believe you got that box for 80$? I can't imagine he made any money on the project whatsoever. It only gets better once you play it also. The game is amazing. I'm running two separate groups of players through my copy, and thinking about it or playing it occupies a ridiculous amount of my spare time. I just wish the ratios of thinking about it vs. actually getting to play it were reversed.

Just getting out the action decks and the rulebooks to at have a good look at how I'd explain them - it strikes me I can introduce this to people with a far lower tolerance for ameritrash fiddly bullshit than I thought.

Rules introduction can be reasonably gradual - players other than me only absolutely need to understand the verbs on their cards and the discard/loss mechanic. The cards are FAR easier to explain than the content of a typical FFG box.

[Goldenmean]

Just getting out the action decks and the rulebooks to at have a good look at how I'd explain them - it strikes me I can introduce this to people with a far lower tolerance for ameritrash fiddly bullshit than I thought.

Rules introduction can be reasonably gradual - players other than me only absolutely need to understand the verbs on their cards and the discard/loss mechanic. The cards are FAR easier to explain than the content of a typical FFG box.

Yeah. There's a lot of rules, but it's really the card play that's at the heart of it. Status conditions can all be found on the little reference card, the back of the rulebook has an index for most symbols, and most everything is fairly intuitive, especially if you've got experience with dungeon crawling RPG sort of tropes. The trickiest part is probably running the AI for the monsters in some strange edge cases, but you can take on the heavy lifting for that. Somewhere down the line though you'll want everyone to know how monsters move, at least in broad strokes, because it will be important for how they plan their turns. For the first several games I just ran all of that myself, but I've started having everyone take a turn doing it, and their level of play has improved as a result.

Some pitfalls I fell into in my early games that might help others:

1) Don't forget that you can lose cards to soak damage. 1 card from your hand or 2 from your discard pile will absorb all damage from a single hit. I somehow completely missed this rule my first time through the game. It did not end well. You will practically always want to lose 1 card from your hand, or if you're low/out of cards, make sure you're in a position to not take much damage.

2) Because of that mechanic, your cards are your life way more than your hp is. Players are going to want to throw around their really powerful one-shot "lose after playing" cards early on, and while that might be a good idea to clear out a large starting room, the way your cards cycle with resting means that every "lose" action you play early is reducing your longevity more than it would if you played it later. I have yet to have a game where the characters won decisively. All of my games have either been losses or else pretty tight "The remaining characters only had a turn or two left before they were dead" sort of affairs. Using more "lose" cards early would have turned all of those wins into losses.

3) While thus far, I like the difficulty set at normal, and might even turn it up to hard once my groups get more cohesion and stop getting in each other's way so much, if I had it to do over again, I think I would have run my first scenario with more casual gamers on easy mode (with level 0 monsters instead of level 1), and maybe even with open hands so I could point out some not necessarily immediately obvious options to my less gamery gamers. Either that, or just sit down with them and run through each of their cards and say exactly what it does/point out potentially nice combos, etc. Not an issue if you've got a pretty dedicated group though.

4) Probably most importantly, in case you don't already know, there's a good FAQ on BGG, and the designer has been very active in the thread: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1687146/official-faq/page/1

[eldaec]

Monolith have announced a Batman game using a similar system to the Conan game that raised 3M USD on kickstarter in 2015.

It looks like a good system - I just had no interest in Conan.

[Ironwood]

Played around with some Pandemic at the weekend, which was awesome fun, but wife and I are thinking of a D&D type boardgame that's a step up from Dungeon, but not as far as full D&D for playing with Elena.

I'm looking at Descent right now and it looks interesting, but you chaps know shittons more than I do ;  Thoughts ?

[Ruvaldt]

I prefer Imperial Assault, but Descent is a good time as well.  They're made by the same folks and have mostly the same mechanics.  If you're looking for a middle ground between boardgame and RPG they're your best bet and can be played as one off games or campaigns.  There is also Gloomhaven and Kingdom Death: Monster, but they're going to be pretty expensive and probably not the best introduction to rpgs for Elena anyway.  Especially Kingdom Death...

Another game you might want to check out though is Mage Knight.  It can be played competitively, coop or even solo.  It has a lot of RPG elements and has been around a while so there a ton of great house rules and variants that people have concocted.  It also has a feel of exploration that Imperial Assault and Descent often lack. 

[Ironwood]

Sweet, thanks, will take a look.

[jgsugden]

Played around with some Pandemic at the weekend, which was awesome fun, but wife and I are thinking of a D&D type boardgame that's a step up from Dungeon, but not as far as full D&D for playing with Elena.

I'm looking at Descent right now and it looks interesting, but you chaps know shittons more than I do ;  Thoughts ?

If you're not ready for full RPGs, Mice and Mystics (discussed above) is a decent start.  The WotC produced D&D games (Wrath of Ashardalon, Castle Ravenloft, The Legend of Drizzt) are great board games based on a lite 4E mechanic from D&D.  However, if you're actually looking at a gateway to RPGs, I suggest using Jenga towers and playing Dread.  Dread is free form RPG storytelling where the game master uses the tower to help determine when things go wrong for a character.  You can either have one tower per player or separate towers for each player.  Whenever the PCs get into trouble and want to get out of it, they have to pull a piece and place it on top...  It gets people away from the mechanics and into the story.

[Merusk]

Game of Thrones is a fun game, but my goodness does it suck some of the fun out when one guy brings along a buddy who's a brick. He winds up playing two sides vs. everyone else.

I still won both games despite that, though, so I shouldn't complain too much. 

[Ironwood]

Brick?

[Ghambit]

Have my copy of HighFrontier 2nd ed. finally on its way.  Will report after an initial play.  Had to wait what?  3 years practically for this thing?  The box looks damned impressive though; can't wait.