Cracks starting to show?

[Paelos]

An interesting thread popped up today. A forum poster asked the honest question that we all wonder as detractors of Cataclysm: Was Cata the first "failed" expansion in the mind of Blizzard?

During Blizzcon I noticed a lot of:

"With cata we went to far with...."

A lot of people have been talking since the expansion hit about the way questing had turned into a dumbed-down, linear faceroll where you virtually had to TRY to get killed if you wanted to die.

A lot of people talking about how heroics weren't "hard" like conquering a difficult peak on a mountain climb but were "hard" like peeling 1000 potatoes.

I think the drop off in subcriptions is a direct reflection of these mistakes.

I'm really glad that both these areas are being addressed, particularly with regard to questing going back to a less phased, less linear, more hub-based experience. Let's hope they nail the mix right this time.

You are mistaking the developers looking at the game with a critical eye with the claim that it was a "failure". We've seen a wide spectrum of opinions over Cataclysm and we're not afraid to look at what worked and didn't work (as we do with each expansion and game as a whole) and try to find better ways of doing things. I heard differing opinions overall during BlizzCon, but not once did I get the impression that any of those opinions boiled down to "Cataclysm sucks" as a whole. They had key elements that they disliked or thought could be improved on, but throwing the whole thing out the window as a "failure" is and should be considered a bit extreme don't you think?

As always, we want to keep learning and growing from each iteration of the game and that means that we're going to do that by continuing to look for your constructive feedback as well.

Oh, we heard people who disagreed with things pretty vehemently too, but the very cool part about getting to talk face to face, is you remove the distance between your words and emotions, thus letting each other truly understand a bit better what the other is saying.

I get what you're saying and I also agree that most people who are walking through the doors at BlizzCon are usually those that are pretty darn happy with things, but that doesn't preclude those people from voicing their own viewpoints to us either. It's just done with a bit more humanity since there's no keyboard and screen between us. ;)

We're not spinning anything. This is one accusation, that I'm sure were you in our shoes, you'd understand is quite overused. We have no need to spin anything. We do not rest on our laurels. At no point have we ever declared the game, "done" and gone off into the sunset to celebrate its perfection. We are always looking for ways to make it better. Always. The amount of meetings, discussions, emails, instant messages and more on our end absolutely indicate that fact. Were it perfect, we would all just spend our days playing the game versus working on it. Alas though, I haven't even gotten to see Hallow's End yet this season. :(

Let's come to an agreement together, Ok? We'll keep working to make things better, you keep providing constructive feedback on what we could do to make it better. We'll then try to figure out how we can meet in the middle on some of those things as often as possible. Deal?

Keep in mind (for those who want specific answers to every point of feedback) that sometimes the answer is, "not right now" or even, "no" (though we try to avoid absolutes since we reserve the right to change our minds at any point in time.) Sometimes we can't answer at all, nor can we always give a definitive answer or reason (though we try where we can.) Also, providing feedback does not guarantee that the feedback will be acted on. It's an impossibility to do so with all the feedback we receive and it's illogical to think we could.

I think it can be said without reserve that even if we can't act on specific feedback or choose not to doesn't mean we don't care. This is a fallacy that gets perpetuated wrongfully.The most important point of insight I can give is that the development team is always looking for ways to make the game and player experience better at every opportunity for the overall health of the game. I couldn't possibly stress that point more.

You have every right to your opinions (we value them), just remember not to take it too far and infer that lack of action on our part = lack of care.

Never once in any of my responses did I imply that I (or anyone else) is viewing the community as anything but individuals and not simply groups. Though to be fair, individuals often can be consigned to groups depending on their interests. ;) Also, if you followed the information on the next expansion, we're aware of the concerns over the difficulty levels and adding to it so that (hopefully) we're offering a wider array of options depending on what type of challenge you're looking for.

So, no apology yet, but the pressure is ON!

[Tannhauser]

"I heard differing opinions overall during BlizzCon, but not once did I get the impression that any of those opinions boiled down to "Cataclysm sucks" as a whole."

Ok I didn't go to Blizzcon so I have to tell you here Mr. Dev that Cataclysm sucks as a whole.

[Ingmar]

You don't even like the new 1-60?

[Paelos]

You don't even like the new 1-60?

I didn't. I got to 35 on a new toon and went...man this is waaaaaaay too railsy.

[Miasma]

C'mon guys, she didn't hear anyone at the preeminent fanboi convention say cata sucks so it must not suck.

[Kail]

In a lot of ways, it didn't suck.  Levelling 1-60 was VASTLY improved.  The new zones were fun.  Some of the new mechanics and gameplay elements (hunter changes, for example) worked pretty well, IMO.

Yeah, the game lost a lot of players due to some issues with dungeon difficulty, but it's not like we're in NGE territory here.  It sounds like they're listening and reacting to the problems with what I've heard about Mists of Pandarama, which is good.

[Minvaren]

The new 1-60 was polished.  Highly polished.  Almost to where you could shave with it.

So polished that rest xp and heirlooms took "on rails" to "they've gone to plaid!"   

[Sjofn]

Yeah I've been parking my latest paladin (I have problems) outside rest areas and stuff just to slow the leveling the fuck down.

[Xanthippe]

I hated the 1-60 leveling Cata brought.  I outleveled a zone before finishing the quests.  If I finished the quests, leveling was even more boring than before.

Some of the newer questlines were very cool (the new Thousand whatever zone with the goblin boats).  But for the most part, I didn't like it as much as I had liked it before Cata.

Exploring wasn't as fun for some reason either.  Flying mounts, maybe?

Cata by and large was it for me in terms of quitting and not wanting to go back.  I haven't once thought about returning, in fact.

[Rendakor]

The new 1-60 stuff was cool but way too fast. They should have stretched it out from 1-80, allowing you to bypass BC and LK, or at least balanced it with heirlooms and guild XP in mind.

[Fordel]

I did not find 1-60 too fast.

[Sjofn]

The new 1-60 stuff was cool but way too fast. They should have stretched it out from 1-80, allowing you to bypass BC and LK, or at least balanced it with heirlooms and guild XP in mind.

Even if it just let you bypass BC, it would've been a lot better, yeah.

[Rokal]

The new 1-60 stuff was cool but way too fast. They should have stretched it out from 1-80, allowing you to bypass BC and LK, or at least balanced it with heirlooms and guild XP in mind.

They could have at least made it an option. Though, you'd have ran into weirdness where people had to buy TBC and LK to level from 60-80 even though they weren't doing the TBC/LK zones.

[Sheepherder]

They could have at least made it an option. Though, you'd have ran into weirdness where people had to buy TBC and LK to level from 60-80 even though they weren't doing the TBC/LK zones.

Huh?

[Rokal]

If they expanded the new 1-60 experience to go all the way to level 80 in the vanilla zones (since there is a ton of overlap and they easily could have made one of many 30-40 zones into a 60-65 zone, etc), it would have been an improvement. It also would have been weird because people would have still needed to buy TBC and Wrath to level from 60-80 even if they weren't touching TBC/Wrath zones. It's probably the reason they didn't seriously consider it, even though they had a surplus of zones.

[Sheepherder]

Again, huh?

What exactly is requiring them to buy TBC and Wrath?

[Amaron]

Again, huh?

What exactly is requiring them to buy TBC and Wrath?

Because the raised level caps are part of the expansions.   No expansion = no higher level cap.

[Numtini]

It's absurd that with falling subscription levels they haven't consolidated all the expansions. Long since time. I can't imagine that a $100 price tag isn't a problem with attracting new subs.

[Sir T]

Huh? I always assumed they had consolidated them. You mean you actually have to pick up the other 2 expensions if you go buy cataclysm, even if you couldn't care less about the areas they introduce? Thats nuts!

[Merusk]

As I stated before, Vanilla and BC are bundled. WOTLK and Cata are separate purchases.  Yes, it's stupid.  Even SOE got this one right by releasing "gold box" editions every time there was a new expansion.

[Rokal]

Fairly certain you need to have TBC and Wrath applied to your account before you can even use a Cataclysm product key.

[Sheepherder]

Because the raised level caps are part of the expansions.   No expansion = no higher level cap.

Well yeah, but that obstacle is not insurmountable.  Blizzard will have to concede that one eventually, unless they don't like taking people's money.

[Special J]

Also, think Lich King might be cheaper now that it's a couple years old? Hahaha, retail it's actually as much or more than Cataclysm right now.

[Evildrider]

Because the raised level caps are part of the expansions.   No expansion = no higher level cap.

Well yeah, but that obstacle is not insurmountable.  Blizzard will have to concede that one eventually, unless they don't like taking people's money.

They like taking people's money, that's why you still have to pay for a previous expansion.   

[Rokal]

Well yeah, but that obstacle is not insurmountable.  Blizzard will have to concede that one eventually, unless they don't like taking people's money.

Obviously, but additional box sales from TBC (now just Wrath) was probably one of the motivations behind not giving us a new 60-80 through the excess zones they already remade.

They could just go the EQ2 route of giving players every previous version of the game when you buy a new expansion, but they probably won't. This is the company that still sells Diablo 2 and the expansion separately, over 10 years after the game was released.

Maybe they'll move to a model where they add an old expansion to the 'base' version of the game every time they release a new expansion (meaning Vanilla will include TBC and Wrath for free when Mists launches), but they'll still expect people to buy Vanilla, the current expansion, and the last one. It's simply asking too much for a game as old as WoW, with such a rapid leveling speed.

The best outcome that I can reasonably see them doing is that every time a new expansion launches, the base version of the game now includes every expansion except the new one. They're mostly making their money in sub fees anyway, assuming they get people to stick around for the paltry end-game.

[Paelos]

Mike apologies for a video. Next step, public apology for Cataclysm!

Dear members of the Blizzard community,

I have read your feedback and comments about this year’s BlizzCon, and I have also read the feedback to the apology from Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftain. I’d like to respond to some of your feedback here.

As president of Blizzard, I take full responsibility for everything that occurs at BlizzCon.

It was shortsighted and insensitive to use the video at all, even in censored form. The language used in the original version, including the slurs and use of sexual orientation as an insult, is not acceptable, period. We realize now that having even an edited version at the show was counter to the standards we try to maintain in our forums and in our games. Doing so was an error in judgment, and we regret it.

The bottom line is we deeply apologize for our mistakes and for hurting or offending anyone. We want you to have fun at our events, and we want everyone to feel welcome. We’re proud to be part of a huge and diverse community, and I am proud that so many aspects of the community are represented within Blizzard itself.

As a leader of Blizzard, and a member of the band, I truly hope you will accept my humblest apology.

– Mike Morhaime
President, Blizzard Entertainment

[Merusk]

Nah, totally different circumstances.  The guy was cursing and cussing up a storm calling Alliance Pussies and worthless, etc.  Not something you want to get behind when you're bleeding stubs because not everyone is immune to seeing cursing as a bad thing.  Some folks are still highly offended by it and it's not something ANY company gets too strongly behind.

It's also because of the exceptionally bad timing of that video.  Why was it bad timing?  Because on top of the usual Alliance, "we're getting fucked here because Blizzard favors the Horde" in regards to LOLlore they ALSO let slip that Theramore is going to burn.   It's just another log on the "Blizzard's out to fuck over the Alliance" fire.

[Numtini]

It was being publicized by several high end anti-discrimination groups including GLAAD. It wasn't the obscenity, it was the homophobic comments--calling people "faggots" and "homos" and then going the extra mile and telling them they should die. The latter bit brought about extra scrutiny because the mainstream world has finally become aware of the epidemic of gay kids killing themselves because of bullying, well, just like what was in the video. They tried to soft pedal a pseudo-apology and then under pressure issued a real one.

[Fordel]

Really what it came down to for me, is if I was in game and/or on the forums and typed what the video was saying, I would be banned. It's against Blizzards OWN policies. If you can't practice what you preach, then wtf mate?

[Paelos]

Maybe we can prove that Cataclysm was anti-fun? It harrassed my fun! Then we get an apology!

Note: This is not to make light of the GLAAD thing, they should apologize for that shit, I just want an apology too!

[Simond]

And a pony?

[Rokal]

Maybe we can prove that Cataclysm was anti-fun? It harrassed my fun! Then we get an apology!

Note: This is not to make light of the GLAAD thing, they should apologize for that shit, I just want an apology too!

You'll get an apology when you deserve one. I wouldn't hold my breath, in other words.

[Soulflame]

The entire playerbase deserves an apology.

Except you.

[Rokal]

Playable Pandaren was apology enough 

[Lakov_Sanite]

You and this apology thing...it's starting to get creepy.