Cracks starting to show?

[Lightstalker]

No levelling *and* people aren't trying to learn a totally new playstyle due to a complete talent/class rewrite.  The first heroic went down the first week, and the % success for encounters is much much higher than it was for the initial encounters in the last tier.  Rag at 14%, that's higher than Cho'gal was when they were talking about releasing Firelands the first time.

Firelands is mechanically easy, but loads of people are phoning it in, being passengers, or just waiting on other releases.  I don't think the live team has made any intentional change to the raid difficulty.  As with the first tier the raids are unforgiving, you still need 8 people doing the right things and there are many 1-shot kill or 1-mistake wipe mechanics in play.  They've also worked themselves into a corner with shield users block capping in this tier, makes life horrible for Druid or DK tanks on fights with a frenzy mechanic where 2-3 unmitigated hits are death.

The challenge in the encounters has been spread across the raid; there is a higher situational awareness requirement than in past expansions.  We got through a lot of the last tier by placing all the critical elements on 1 or 2 players to mitigate the lower situation awareness of our raiders, but this tier has less leeway in that regard.  My gujild was more successful last tier, but we're being spastic and that does not reflect on any differences in difficulty in the encounters.

[Simond]

Quarterly financial report soon, isn't it?

Also:
Go here - http://tess2.uspto.gov/
Basic Word Mark Search (New User)
Type "Pandaria"
Click 'Submit Query'

[Ingmar]

The only stuff they have done trademarks like that to date for are full games, expansions, and trading card game expansions, and this one doesn't have the right codes/keywords to be a TCG thing. So I guess we're looking at an expansion name, unless they've suddenly decided to start trademarking the names of content patches.

EDIT: I'm probably jumping the gun speculation-wise. It could be something like a Facebook game, too. Or mobile. That would make a lot of sense I think.

[Evildrider]

I think the fact that there is no info on the next patch is kind of shitty.  Not that I care really, I am soooo done with WoW when SWTOR comes out.

[Merusk]

Quarterly financial report soon, isn't it?

Yes, tomorrow -August 3- at 1:30 according to the AB site.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Panda expansion = shark jump

[Rokal]

I would guess that "Mists of Pandaria" is some side-project and not the next expansion. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd really love Pandaran as a playable race, and Brewmaster seems like a class with a lot of potential.

Panda expansion = shark jump

Fuck you ;p

[Lakov_Sanite]

Hey, it'd be a fun expac and I'll prolly get it but fuck man, it's the most obvious shark jump ever.

[Rokal]

Other Western MMOs have done "Asian-themed" expansions without feeling too ridiculous. I'm not sure what the big story would be convincing a bunch of level 85s that just killed deathwing that they need to go to Pandaria.

Old gods obviously. They're fucking up the Pandarian now! 

The only other obvious expansion ideas I've heard have all seemed extremely boring. A continuation of the Burning Legion story line? Tired. Demon-hunter would be the obvious hero class choice there, and they said they wanted the next hero class to be a healer iirc.

I would be greatly surprised if the next expansion had new races, that's another factor that makes "Mists of Pandaria" an unlikely expansion. One can hope though, this would be a really refreshing concept for a WoW expansion.

[luckton]

For those too lazy to follow the earlier searching instructions:


If this 'is' a WoW expansion, then yeah, Shark Week isn't a big enough event to cover how LOL this jump will be.

[Merusk]

There will be no more hero classes.  They originally said they'd do a healer next, then 2 years of balancing DKs and trying to find a unique role for them always getting it wrong* and then trying to balance them again after release made them say "Know what.. no. It'll be races because classes fucks up too much other stuff."  That was at Blizzcon 2009, IIRC during one of the Q/As.

If it were a new Xpac involving the Pandarens, though, you'd see much bitching without -at the very least- a Monk or Brewmaster class. So I'd wager Ingmar was more correct that it's an offshoot product.  It makes more sense and doesn't toss a lot of extra work onto the maintenance project that is WoW.

*(Hint: they're still massivly overpowered at low gear levels they just scale horribly)

[Rokal]

DK Balance was compounded by the "Every spec can tank!" design. Something a bit more straight forward would be less of a pain in the ass to balance. Also, I think in a lot of ways they were referring to PVP balance which I don't give a shit about.

We already have two healer/dps hybrids (shaman, priest), and frankly the brewmaster kit from WC3 was like a WoW shaman, so maybe not :-\

[Ingmar]

Basically everything interesting from the War3 hero units has already been cannibalized into existing classes at this point.

[Sjofn]

Other Western MMOs have done "Asian-themed" expansions without feeling too ridiculous. I'm not sure what the big story would be convincing a bunch of level 85s that just killed deathwing that they need to go to Pandaria.

Old gods obviously. They're fucking up the Pandarian now! 

The only other obvious expansion ideas I've heard have all seemed extremely boring. A continuation of the Burning Legion story line? Tired. Demon-hunter would be the obvious hero class choice there, and they said they wanted the next hero class to be a healer iirc.

I would be greatly surprised if the next expansion had new races, that's another factor that makes "Mists of Pandaria" an unlikely expansion. One can hope though, this would be a really refreshing concept for a WoW expansion.

While I'd be cool with a Pandaria expansion, I don't find the Burning Legion storyline particularly tired, not like I find the Old Gods to be. And yes, I know the two are probably intertwined somewhat (of course they are), but still. I'd not mind at all having a good, solid demon expansion, telling us more about what Sargeras' problem is, what the hell the Titans are even up to, etc. The problem, of course, is their writing still sucks monkey nut, so the likelihood of it being satisfying is pretty low. They need to get off the goddamn Old God theme though. They aren't interesting, they aren't scary, they're just a boring plot device that needs to go away for an expansion or two.

[Nevermore]

There will be no more hero classes.  They originally said they'd do a healer next, then 2 years of balancing DKs and trying to find a unique role for them always getting it wrong* and then trying to balance them again after release made them say "Know what.. no. It'll be races because classes fucks up too much other stuff."  That was at Blizzcon 2009, IIRC during one of the Q/As.

If it were a new Xpac involving the Pandarens, though, you'd see much bitching without -at the very least- a Monk or Brewmaster class. So I'd wager Ingmar was more correct that it's an offshoot product.  It makes more sense and doesn't toss a lot of extra work onto the maintenance project that is WoW.

*(Hint: they're still massivly overpowered at low gear levels they just scale horribly)

DKs are hardly the only class that's massively overpowered at low gear levels.

[Rokal]

I remember back when AQ40 came out and C'thun/the old gods actually seemed badass.

That was a long time ago.

TBC had a big enough focus on demons that I just don't see there being a lot of new ground to cover with an expansion based on the burning legion again. Hell, TBC had a bigger emphasis on demons than Wrath did on undead.

[Fabricated]

What blatant pandaring to the base.

Thanks folks, I'll be here all night.

[Rendakor]

I can bearly contain my excitement.

[Nevermore]

What will Lantyssa do if she could actually play a panda, but had to play WoW to do it? 

[Sjofn]

I remember back when AQ40 came out and C'thun/the old gods actually seemed badass.

That was a long time ago.

TBC had a big enough focus on demons that I just don't see there being a lot of new ground to cover with an expansion based on the burning legion again. Hell, TBC had a bigger emphasis on demons than Wrath did on undead.

Honestly, during TBC, while we fought a lot of demons, it didn't really feel like it ... talked about them much. There was a lot of "oh hey, non-fel orcs" (and hello to you, Garrosh!) and "huh, Kael'thas is up to shit" (but you'll never really get to see what unless you raid, you just have to accept he's doing shit, okay?) and "why the fuck does the Alliance even give a shit about any of this " (because shut up that's why), but pretty much nothing about "what demons are, where they come from, and wtf they want." It was really more about Illidan and Outland than demons. They were involved, of course, especially in the blood elf storyline, but it didn't develop them. They exist, they're EEEEEEE-VUL, annnnnd ... that's about it. Nothing changed about them and what we know about them. They are in the exact same place after TBC as they were pre-TBC.

WotLK, on the other hand, had the Lich King hanging over everything, and that story went somewhere. Which was good! Its clearer focus was part of what made that expansion so much better than TBC. We learned about who Arthas was and how he came to be the Lich King (lots of people who play WoW didn't play WC3, remember), how he fucked various people's lives and how they dealt with it, if he could be redeemed, what would happen without him (stupid or not (and it was), it was still a development), and then the Arthas Chapter was definitively resolved. And the Scourge is now in a very different place after WotLK than they were pre-WotLK.

The Burning Legion could use a WotLK-caliber treatment, frankly.

[Samprimary]

Ha, dear lord.

MISTS OF PANDARIA being the expansion would be going from cracks to full-blown dam-breaking fissures.

[Amaron]

Ha, dear lord.

MISTS OF PANDARIA being the expansion would be going from cracks to full-blown dam-breaking fissures.

I'm not saying it's a good idea but I'm a bit curious how you think some clown shoe lore is going to break WoW's back at this point.

[Lantyssa]

What will Lantyssa do if she could actually play a panda, but had to play WoW to do it? 

It won't be a red panda, so I'm safe.

It's not like I didn't give in to the Goblins and Worgen, even if it was for an excessively short time.

[Nevermore]

Ah, but my prediction is that Pandaran will be available to *both* sides.  See, when the cataclysm hit the catastrophe caused a schism in what used to be the peaceful isle of Pandaria.  You see, [blahblah, wave hands, hey what's that over there!] and that's why the black and white Pandaran will join the Alliance and the never before seen red Pandaran will join the Horde.  

[WindupAtheist]

You're talking about these guys as a playable race, right?


Yeah, fucking clownshoes. Entire expansion would be one big joke.

[Miasma]

I'm hoping it's a joke.  Why do mmo designers always feel the need to release an asian themed expansion with a monk class when they run out of other ideas?

[Sheepherder]

Yeah, fucking clownshoes. Entire expansion would be one big joke.

"We took our game and drew a beard on it, now play it for the next two years."

"Haha, pandas, awesome.  But no thanks."

[Reg]

Doesn't the Chinese government have all kinds of rules about how pandas are supposed to be portrayed?

[Merusk]

Doesn't the Chinese government have all kinds of rules about how pandas are supposed to be portrayed?

That's been a rumor for years, but Kung-Fu Panda 1&2 were both released in China with nothing more than protests.

Like most thing, I'm going to say it all depends on who you bribe, and if the bureaucrat in charge is OK with it.

[Lakov_Sanite]

You're talking about these guys as a playable race, right?


Yeah, fucking clownshoes. Entire expansion would be one big joke.

You realize this is wow right? Of course it would be a joke and of course, they'd still do it.

Truth be told this is just another desperation move to retain players/grab new ones.  They are just running out of things the fans have been asking for now they added goblins,worgen and deathwing, pandaren are really the last unexplored bit in the whole wowverse besides sargeras and he'll be the last expac anyways.

[Simond]

I'm hoping it's a joke.  Why do mmo designers always feel the need to release an asian themed expansion with a monk class when they run out of other ideas?

Because they've run out of other ideas? Was that a trick question or summit?

[Merusk]

So anyone get in on the investor call?  Paelos, you seem to have spare time. 

[Ingmar]

Doesn't the Chinese government have all kinds of rules about how pandas are supposed to be portrayed?

That's been a rumor for years, but Kung-Fu Panda 1&2 were both released in China with nothing more than protests.

Like most thing, I'm going to say it all depends on who you bribe, and if the bureaucrat in charge is OK with it.

I've told this story before, but I have a friend who worked in the marketing department at Blizzard at the time that they were planning TBC and he swears the Chinese government/pandaren thing was true. They had their first presentation ready to go for the expansion reveal, which was going to be about Pandaren, and then ended up having to scramble to get something presentable about the Blood Elves instead because they didn't have *anything* to show for the Draenei, not even much concept art was ready by the time the first info was scheduled to be released. I have no reason to think he was lying about it. They've probably had Pandaren stuff waiting around ready to go for whenever the Chinese govt. changes their tune.

[Mattemeo]

They've probably had Pandaren stuff waiting around ready to go for whenever the Chinese govt. changes their tune.

I think they're already in the game. Take a look at the Tuskarr and see if you can tell me honestly that they're blatantly not reappropriated Pandaren models. Tweaked a bit, new textures slapped on, voila! A rotund race that uses up a wasted art resource. The quality of animations is very much PC over NPC, too.
I like the Tuskarr, mind you. But I'm certain they're Pandaren mk I.

[Simond]

I heard that the real issue about pandaren wasn't that they were panda-men, but Japanese panda-men (seriously, look at all of Samwise' earlier fursona Pandaren art. Katana and sake everywhere). As you might imagine, that probably wouldn't go down that well in China.