Blood Bowl - ** f13 League, Season #2 ** (Over! We have a winner!)

[Comstar]

As my reward, I would like Tropico 3: Gold Edition - currency $9.99 USD and Sam & Max: The Devil's Playhouse currency $9.99 USD with the specials.



Can we keep teams but increase the amount of options there are for inducements?

[eldaec]

Wait, what, did the season 2 champion just suggest blitz mode?

Purge the heretic! Cleanse the unbeliever!

[Falconeer]

As my reward, I would like Tropico 3: Gold Edition - currency $9.99 USD and Sam & Max: The Devil's Playhouse currency $9.99 USD with the specials.

Prize delivered!

[Falconeer]

Wait, what, did the season 2 champion just suggest blitz mode?

Purge the heretic! Cleanse the unbeliever!

What Eldaec said.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

New player weighing in on keep vs. don't keep: if it comes down to one or the other, then I say let people keep their teams. I am apprehensive about drawing an early match against a punchy high-TV team with a fragile race, but that has more to do with my being new to the game than an inherent imbalance. And I definitely am not going to quit the league halfway through just because I get clobbered 'unfairly'.

I really doubt the game supports this, but my vote for 'tricky ideal solution' would be to just bump new teams up to the lowest TV of pre-existing teams. Of course doing so through some more random exhibition-game schedule would be better than letting them distribute levels/SPP, and might actually be possible within the game (though tedious to organize.)

I don't think two leagues w/ relegations is a good idea -- and while I support the idea of organizing our two divisions according to some kind of seeding/ranking, I think it would make more sense to go off previous season's rankings than off TV.

(Another solution that I am absolutely sure the game doesn't support would be to let coaches carry over one or two players from their old team, legacy-style. Oh well, I guess tabletop does do some things better.)

[Strazos]

It least with my team, I don't think having experienced players makes me invincible - I have slightly more options.

In the end, I just want to play.

[lamaros]

Anyone want to give me some lessons in a 1v1 beating?

[Falconeer]

Sure Lamaros. Give me a word if you see me online in the BloodBowl Steam group. I'd be more than happy to have a match.

[lamaros]

Lessons on how to win blood bowl, from he season winner:
- Buy more team rerolls. 3 is not enough. 4 is ok if you get the leader skill.
- EYES ON THE BALL. You should ALWAYS be aiming for the ball. If you can grab it, do it. If you need to hit someone, get a 2D block, or a 1D block, or even just a tacklezone on him. Make the other team do something to get away. Always put pressure on the ball. If you need to pick up the ball, move someone to cover it, and pick it up before doing anything else.
- Move the zero risk players first, then the low risk ones who can go for the ball, then ones who can do stuff, then the high risk ones.
- Don't do blocks first if they don't matter to who ends up with the ball.
- Don't get cocky - that Troll might roll 3 dice skulls, or that +2 hand off with a reroll can fail. And a GFI with a reroll ALWAYS fails when you need it.
- Try and keep 1 player as a reserve to handle disasters or opportunities.
- Dodge away if you can, to force less blocks.
- if its crazy and it works, its not crazy. Just do other less crazy things first.
- There is always a way!
- The easy way is not easy if you ran out of rerolls.
- Nuffle is a bitch.

See you next Season!

I just watched the reply and enjoyed, so thanks to you both. In my novice view it seems strange that you got to receive first, what is the reasoning for that on Llyse's part? I can't help feel that you would have been on a hiding to nothing if it was reversed and the undead played a conservative "beat the shit out of you" game, but I really have NFI about many aspects of this game.

Anyhow good to watch, grats on the victory and everything!

(Also, a heap of dodge rerolls that ended up 6 and a lot of success with GFI on that winning touchdown there at the end!!!)

[Comstar]

My guess is that he knew I'd go for a quick touchdown, and he could then get a touchdown himself before the end of the first half. He would then probably outnumber me in the 2nd half (which he did!) and get an easy 2-1 win. It's a common strategy for a bashy team vs a dodgy team.

The strategy failed for a couple of reasons, not all of them his fault...Nuffle is a bitch.

- There was a Riot on the kick-off which moved the clock forward 1 turn.
- I stuffed up a dodge so his attempt to get my ball carrier almost worked - if he'd rolled a knock down or picked up the ball he would be in the lead on turn 3. I should have moved my ball carrier first.
- I don't think he used a reroll trying to bash my ball carrier- I would have used one.
- His fast players were out of position so i was able to spend a turn stalling him. You'll notice I blitzed his second werewolf for that reason.
- Instead of trying for a 1 dice frenzy block, he tried dodging his werewolf into a -1 tacklezone, which failed. I would have tried for the 1 dice frenzy myself, but the dodge would have worked on a 4+ with a reroll, compared to a 1 in 6 chance of knocking my blitzer down, so it's understandable.
- It took me 6 turns to get a TD, so he only had 3 turns to even the score.
- On his receiving turn end he moved 3 guys into position to get a pass...but they were all unsupported. A dodgy team can disengage and mark them a lot easier than a bashy team can. He would have been better I think to break through one flank and form a pocket, rather than spread out 3 guys.  He had enough guys he could have formed a pocket and still have another fast mover as a backup too.

[Llyse]

My guess is that he knew I'd go for a quick touchdown, and he could then get a touchdown himself before the end of the first half. He would then probably outnumber me in the 2nd half (which he did!) and get an easy 2-1 win. It's a common strategy for a bashy team vs a dodgy team.

The strategy failed for a couple of reasons, not all of them his fault...Nuffle is a bitch.

- There was a Riot on the kick-off which moved the clock forward 1 turn.
- I stuffed up a dodge so his attempt to get my ball carrier almost worked - if he'd rolled a knock down or picked up the ball he would be in the lead on turn 3. I should have moved my ball carrier first.
- I don't think he used a reroll trying to bash my ball carrier- I would have used one.
- His fast players were out of position so i was able to spend a turn stalling him. You'll notice I blitzed his second werewolf for that reason.
- Instead of trying for a 1 dice frenzy block, he tried dodging his werewolf into a -1 tacklezone, which failed. I would have tried for the 1 dice frenzy myself, but the dodge would have worked on a 4+ with a reroll, compared to a 1 in 6 chance of knocking my blitzer down, so it's understandable.
- It took me 6 turns to get a TD, so he only had 3 turns to even the score.
- On his receiving turn end he moved 3 guys into position to get a pass...but they were all unsupported. A dodgy team can disengage and mark them a lot easier than a bashy team can. He would have been better I think to break through one flank and form a pocket, rather than spread out 3 guys.  He had enough guys he could have formed a pocket and still have another fast mover as a backup too.

Pretty much what Comstar, one of my big regrets was not rerolling that blitz on the ball carrier 

I don't remember doing a -1 tackelzone dodge but that's definitely a mistake if it is

[Modern Angel]

I think regardless of what we end up doing specifically we're going to have new teams for season 3.

[Falconeer]

Seems like the majority is pushing for carryovers, including some of the new coaches.

[Sir T]

I'm not. Frankly the thought of running into experienced teams is damping my enthusiasm for the whole thing. I can understand getting attached to the team you are using but I'm not really interested in providing a laugh to someone while getting steamrolled. Its gonna be hard enough to make any headway as it is as I haven't a clue what I'm doing. And the computer hammers my ass in the few games I've managed to play.

If the other people are ok with it, then go with the majority. I can drop out if it will mean a place for someone else that's ok with it if need be.

[Modern Angel]

Well beat in mind that this is why the all new teams at the start of season 3 exists. You won' be running into any bruisers with a huge head start until season 4 when you (in theory) will have had the opportunity to be just as badass.

[Falconeer]

Really, Sir T? You are gonna drop if the majority votes for carryover? 

Please, don't. Give it a chance, dammit.

[Sir T]

Sorry Falk. I had a bit of a shitty christmas day and I was feeling a bit low (to top it off my TV cable just failed as the film I have been waiting all day to see was about to start). Of course I'll give it a try. I'll probably bring a Nurgle team so I have an excuse for my boys falling apart 

Expect the worst play you have ever seen.

[Falconeer]

No worries man. I am sorry if things will go a way that is not ideal, as you know I'd prefer all new teams too. But I am sure it'll be great no matter what. And I shit you not, I just (right now) played a match with my 940 Necro team vs. a 1500 Dark Elf guy, who has a 73% win ratio, and stole a 1-1 tie. Nuffle is a bitch, for everyone. And to have 2 Star Players in your team can be lots of fun.

And I am sorry for your Christmas. I know what it's like 

[Hoax]

I'm not. Frankly the thought of running into experienced teams is damping my enthusiasm for the whole thing. I can understand getting attached to the team you are using but I'm not really interested in providing a laugh to someone while getting steamrolled. Its gonna be hard enough to make any headway as it is as I haven't a clue what I'm doing. And the computer hammers my ass in the few games I've managed to play.

If the other people are ok with it, then go with the majority. I can drop out if it will mean a place for someone else that's ok with it if need be.

You really need to read the rules for the table top, understanding why the rolls are what they are is critical, once you've done that you have no excuse for losing to the computer on lower difficulty and you'll be ready to start making mistakes against humans.

More experienced teams are actually less frustrating to play and lose against then say when you play 1000TV chaos against 1000TV dwarves and get stomped. The game IS NOT balanced perfectly nor is it trying to be and there is so much luck involved that any team can win or lose despite its coach if the gods are against them.

[lamaros]

I never played the tabletop, nor do I know anything about NFL, and I haven't lost any games to the computer on medium yet. I'd advise doing the tutorial, reading a couple of simple guides (like the one comstar posted in the other thread) and play some games in the campaign mode. I think the basics aren't too hard to pick up and once you play some games and read the rules, but I'd play the games first as the rules can seem daunting.

With so many new teams this league it's not going to be a case of experience v newbie every game anyhow, so I am strongly in favor of carry over teams.

[eldaec]

All things being equal I'd say keep teams. But I'm not going to get hot and bothered if Falconeer declares that new teams are the thing.

I don't have strong views on other aspects of the format. But some general thoughts...


 - I'd really rather not see us turning teams away - even if that means fake teams like season 2, or running divisions as separate competitions to get around limitations of the inflexible bullshit league system.
 - Seed on the basis of season 2 record, not TV. Seed new teams on the basis of the blood bowl coach record with other teams.
 - End of season playoffs always seem weak sauce to me, if you must have them, keep them short. An entirely separate knockout competition alongside the main league (in the style of a european football league + cup season) always feels like a better structure.

[lamaros]

- End of season playoffs always seem weak sauce to me, if you must have them, keep them short. An entirely separate knockout competition alongside the main league (in the style of a european football league + cup season) always feels like a better structure.

I'd prefer this too if it's possible to do.

[Modern Angel]

I love playoffs but it might just be me being a lifelong American football fan. I'm pretty dead set against any parallel competition, though, just because I think we run the real risk of diluting the enthusiasm. As it is, I don't think playoffs of top two from each division is too terrible. I don't feel terribly strongly about the postseason, so whatever people thinks works best is fine by me.

[Hoax]

I'd like to see a league cup style side competition in the future but I think we should wait and just have season 3 on its own to maintain focus and keep the commitment on the lighter side with all the fresh coaches and faces.

As for ditching American style playoffs, shut your dirty gobs you damn euros.

[Sky]

As for ditching American style playoffs, shut your dirty gobs you damn euros.

[Strazos]

I don't even get this side competition stuff...are you essentially in 2 leagues with 1 team? Which "league" matters then? And if not both, then why have 2 in the first place?

[Ruvaldt]

Yeah, I'm not sure I understand that either.  It sounds like gilding the lily though.

[ezrast]

I think Hoax was talking about having two parallel leagues, a Season #3 with all new teams and a Season #2.5 with carryovers.

I'm probably going to start a new team either way - terrible team composition trumps the mild attachment I have to my Pools - and I'm too newb to have any opinion on what works TV-wise but the arguments for just keeping one season and allowing carryovers sound convincing enough to me (before reading the last couple pages I was in favor of starting fresh).

[Ruvaldt]

Ahhhh I see.  Well, if that's the case then I'd probably be in favor of it, but I haven't seen a lot of traction for the idea so far.

[Hoax]

Actually its different its a single elim tournament that happens during the season that has its own trophy, but I've thought about it for a bit now and it wouldn't work in BB I don't think since single elim is bad since playing more games is such an advantage. Also the reason to have a league cup is if you are using the euro style promotion/relegation divisions style as the league cups give a chance for the minnow teams to play against the top division sides.

[ezrast]

Not following real sports doesn't hurt my enjoyment of BB in the least, but it sure makes it hard to figure out what the hell you all are talking about sometimes. 

[Strazos]

Also, I don't think you can use 1 team in more than 1 league at any one time.

[eldaec]

On MA's point about not having parallel leagues, what I meant about league & cup is not two sets of fixtures in parallel; you might have every third game day be a knockout cup round. I think that is what the grand slam tournament option means.

[Bann]

As a new bloodbowler who just signed up for season 3, I'd love to see carryovers. Selfishly, I'd prefer new teams for season 3 with carryovers going forward from there, but wouldn't mind in the least to play against carryovers from season 2. Just excited to play against some real people soon.

[Teleku]

As for ditching American style playoffs, shut your dirty gobs you damn euros.