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Author Topic: The Dark Tower  (Read 6134 times)
Ghambit
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Reply #35 on: March 03, 2016, 07:19:15 PM

If they follow the graphic novels, they'll be fine.  That said, obviously they are mostly not, givin Idris is the lead.

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lamaros
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Reply #36 on: March 03, 2016, 10:08:40 PM

I tried reading the first book and gave up and deliberately left it on a train. So long ago now I can't remember why, but I'll give the movie a shot if it seems well received.

I'd rather a black company movie. The plots there are very filmable by today's superhero standards.

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Reply #37 on: March 10, 2016, 03:51:48 PM

Tom Taylor will play Jake Chambers:
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/10/dark-tower-jake-chambers-tom-taylor



Not bad, more or less how I pictured him in the books.


« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 03:53:20 PM by Lucas »

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Paelos
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Reply #38 on: March 23, 2016, 01:20:53 PM

I tried reading the first book and gave up and deliberately left it on a train. So long ago now I can't remember why, but I'll give the movie a shot if it seems well received.

I'd rather a black company movie. The plots there are very filmable by today's superhero standards.

That's probably because the first book, despite getting the series off the ground, is probably one of the weakest written books in the series imo. Song of Susannah is by far the absolute worst, so bad that I wished it didn't exist (I loathe Susannah's character and if I could expunge her presence from the novels I would.) The rest of them seem to vary in ranking person to person. In my mind it went:

Wizard and Glass
The Dark Tower
Drawing of Three
Wastelands
Wolves of Calla
The Gunslinger
Song of Susannah

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Cyrrex
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Reply #39 on: March 24, 2016, 12:17:35 AM

That's probably exactly how I would rank them as well.  Wizard and Glass is one of my favorite books, period. 

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RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #40 on: March 24, 2016, 06:05:18 AM

I just started a reread of the whole series because I can't remember enough about the books to say which I'd prefer be a movie or not.  But after finishing The Gunslinger - that kid upthread fits my head canon just fine.

Ghambit
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Reply #41 on: May 16, 2016, 06:34:30 PM

Isn't Roland supposed to be a brown person??  Why are the interwebs people getting white-supremacy butthurt that Elba is playing an older version of Roland?  I dont get it.  Did I miss something?  Tbh, I would have preferred a native american actor playing Roland, like LDP or something... but Elba will do nicely. 

Granted, I'm going by the comics... not the novels.  Is he a Clint Eastwood in the novels or something?

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Reply #42 on: May 16, 2016, 06:37:56 PM

In the white man's mind, all badass gunslingers are Clint Eastwood.

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Reply #43 on: May 16, 2016, 06:58:13 PM

Isn't Roland supposed to be a brown person??  Why are the interwebs people getting white-supremacy butthurt that Elba is playing an older version of Roland?  I dont get it.  Did I miss something?  Tbh, I would have preferred a native american actor playing Roland, like LDP or something... but Elba will do nicely. 

Granted, I'm going by the comics... not the novels.  Is he a Clint Eastwood in the novels or something?

Clint Eastwood was one of Stephen King's inspirations for the character, yes. Roland is also stated to share a lot of physical characteristics with Stephen King himself. That said, I think Elba is great casting.
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Reply #44 on: May 16, 2016, 07:07:54 PM

Isn't Roland supposed to be a brown person??  Why are the interwebs people getting white-supremacy butthurt that Elba is playing an older version of Roland?  I dont get it.  Did I miss something?  Tbh, I would have preferred a native american actor playing Roland, like LDP or something... but Elba will do nicely. 

Granted, I'm going by the comics... not the novels.  Is he a Clint Eastwood in the novels or something?



He's often referred to as a "honky mofo(sp)" by Detta in the books, which would indicate white.  Honestly, other than that, his skin color means very little.  He's from the Arthurian lineage, but who's to say that line isn't dark skinned in his world. 


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Mandella
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Reply #45 on: May 17, 2016, 08:44:26 AM

The problem with discussing this, of course, is that this is the sort of discussion where it's easy to imply bigotry at anyone who dissents, but I'm going to weigh in and take the chance this will stay civil.

The thing is Detta calling him a "honky mofo" was a major part of the arc of the second book. The unrelenting racism of that personality was the defining characteristic and threat of that relationship -- why Detta couldn't be trusted, made the worse by Rolan's inability to truly understand what her problem was, since he didn't have the shared history, no matter that he looked *exactly* like an archetypal western gunfighter from North American pop culture (yes I know the image mostly comes from films shot in Italy -- it was still US pop culture!).

And the archetypal western gunfighter from North American pop culture is most assuredly Caucasian. Deeply tanned perhaps, but still a honky mofo.

So this means that Detta has to be written out or completely changed (which I admit might be a good thing -- she was pretty grating). Come to think of it, she could be rewritten as white, and still keep the racism, but without said racism it does deeply change the character progression (understanding and eventually overcoming said bigotry -- made the more difficult since the woman was clinically crazy with good old fashioned Hollywood style schizophrenia).

In either case we're talking a beyond Peter Jackson change to a work which has some pretty rabid fans that think it was done perfectly in book form and are going to be pissed at *any* deviation from the novels.

REAL EDIT: I have not read the graphic novels. Is a dark skinned in those, and how do they deal with the handicapped psycho lady in there?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:46:18 AM by Mandella »
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #46 on: May 17, 2016, 08:58:52 AM

The books also mention pretty frequently how piercing blue Roland's eyes are, and that's not usually a color associated with a black man.  Still wouldn't complain about Idris Elba ever though.  Heart

Thing is, if you change or get rid of Detta Walker, you're changing a pretty significant part of Susannah's character and how she's presented.  I supposed you could change her to a white woman, but OTOH, considering the differences in culture, "honky mofo" could be a default insult for Detta to use against anyone who acts "white" or with authority.

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Reply #47 on: May 17, 2016, 06:58:52 PM

Yah, I have to take everything back (now that I've gone back through the graphic novels).  He's most definitely a black-haired caucasian with blue eyes.  It was Algood that was moreso an brownskinned native american type.  

So indeed, they are departing from the racial overtones of the books.  By creating racial overtones.  swamp poop   How will they navigate the bloodlines and so forth?

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Reply #48 on: May 19, 2016, 05:55:44 AM

We've had white people in hollywood play other races for years. I could care less that they are going the other way.

That said, yes he's white on the covers of books and as described in the novels. I still care none. In fact, I think having him as a black character would add more gravitas to some of the isolation he feels in his quest from the rest of the world.

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Reply #49 on: May 19, 2016, 07:30:41 AM

It's Idris Elba, not Will Smith. One of those instantly makes any movie he's in better, the other is Will Smith.

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Reply #50 on: May 19, 2016, 09:23:56 AM

Yeah, I am not a big fan of affirmative action in casting, but Idris Elba is a fantastic actor, capable of carrying any role. Maybe the racism angle of the story will have to be dropped or tweaked, but it's hard to see how any movie could be harmed by casting him as the lead.

Pretty sure that he could take the lead role in a biopic about Strom Thurmond and make it work.

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Lucas
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Reply #51 on: May 20, 2016, 05:47:58 PM

Hile, Gunslinger.



----

As you might already know, yesterday Stephen King tweeted a VERY intriguing, VERY SPOILER-ish image and phrase (I'll only post the link):

https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/733244613000069120


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Mandella
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Reply #52 on: May 20, 2016, 07:42:10 PM

Hile, Gunslinger.



----

As you might already know, yesterday Stephen King tweeted a VERY intriguing, VERY SPOILER-ish image and phrase (I'll only post the link):

https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/733244613000069120


That shows a degree of clever that I must admit I was not expecting.

Wow. Okay. Suddenly, I'm looking forward to this production.
Morat20
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Reply #53 on: May 20, 2016, 07:56:29 PM

Yeah, that tweet was like "Yes, I am interested in your product and would like further information".
RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #54 on: May 21, 2016, 05:37:04 AM

They can also get around the maimed hand now, too. 

That tweet makes things really intriguing now and means that while the events in the books take place, they can make enough minor changes to the story to justify them since it's the next iteration.  Well played.

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Reply #55 on: May 23, 2016, 05:47:28 AM

Maybe I am being thick, but is the implication from the tweet supposed to be that if Roland has the horn, then this is actually a totally new cycle and therefore whatever we read in the books is part of a former cycle?  All rules are off?  I say this because of some vague recollection that the horn was supposed to have shattered in the books...though maybe he woke up again at the end, it was whole again?   Do I remember wrongly?

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RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #56 on: May 23, 2016, 06:16:38 AM

Maybe I am being thick, but is the implication from the tweet supposed to be that if Roland has the horn, then this is actually a totally new cycle and therefore whatever we read in the books is part of a former cycle?  All rules are off?  I say this because of some vague recollection that the horn was supposed to have shattered in the books...though maybe he woke up again at the end, it was whole again?   Do I remember wrongly?


I think it was that Roland should have picked up the horn after Cuthbert dropped it during the battle of Jericho Hill, but he didn't in the books. This time around, he's got the horn with him so presumably, it will be the last iteration he'll have to do and the cycle will end when he reaches the Dark Tower.

Lucas
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Reply #57 on: May 23, 2016, 08:40:08 AM

Maybe I am being thick, but is the implication from the tweet supposed to be that if Roland has the horn, then this is actually a totally new cycle and therefore whatever we read in the books is part of a former cycle?  All rules are off?  I say this because of some vague recollection that the horn was supposed to have shattered in the books...though maybe he woke up again at the end, it was whole again?   Do I remember wrongly?


I think it was that Roland should have picked up the horn after Cuthbert dropped it during the battle of Jericho Hill, but he didn't in the books. This time around, he's got the horn with him so presumably, it will be the last iteration he'll have to do and the cycle will end when he reaches the Dark Tower.

Let's hope the developers remembered to mark it as an unlosable, unbreakable, [Legendary] Quest Item, this time around  why so serious?

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Mandella
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Reply #58 on: May 23, 2016, 10:48:28 AM

Maybe I am being thick, but is the implication from the tweet supposed to be that if Roland has the horn, then this is actually a totally new cycle and therefore whatever we read in the books is part of a former cycle?  All rules are off?  I say this because of some vague recollection that the horn was supposed to have shattered in the books...though maybe he woke up again at the end, it was whole again?   Do I remember wrongly?


Yes. It makes the movie a sequel to the books, and not an adaptation. Like I said, really a brilliant move. I wonder who came up with it, King or a writer/producer?
Morat20
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Reply #59 on: May 23, 2016, 04:08:57 PM

Maybe I am being thick, but is the implication from the tweet supposed to be that if Roland has the horn, then this is actually a totally new cycle and therefore whatever we read in the books is part of a former cycle?  All rules are off?  I say this because of some vague recollection that the horn was supposed to have shattered in the books...though maybe he woke up again at the end, it was whole again?   Do I remember wrongly?


I think it was that Roland should have picked up the horn after Cuthbert dropped it during the battle of Jericho Hill, but he didn't in the books. This time around, he's got the horn with him so presumably, it will be the last iteration he'll have to do and the cycle will end when he reaches the Dark Tower.
I wouldn't say necessarily the last, but that's just my book understanding. Having the horn was basically an indication that it wasn't identical loops, over and over, but that there was progress each time (each time the universe was repaired a bit more).

So the next loop he'll do better. Refine the loop a bit more, you know? (The basic idea being he can't ever finish until he stops doing stupid shit, like dropping Jake).
Riggswolfe
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Reply #60 on: May 24, 2016, 06:58:08 PM

Maybe I am being thick, but is the implication from the tweet supposed to be that if Roland has the horn, then this is actually a totally new cycle and therefore whatever we read in the books is part of a former cycle?  All rules are off?  I say this because of some vague recollection that the horn was supposed to have shattered in the books...though maybe he woke up again at the end, it was whole again?   Do I remember wrongly?


I think it was that Roland should have picked up the horn after Cuthbert dropped it during the battle of Jericho Hill, but he didn't in the books. This time around, he's got the horn with him so presumably, it will be the last iteration he'll have to do and the cycle will end when he reaches the Dark Tower.
I wouldn't say necessarily the last, but that's just my book understanding. Having the horn was basically an indication that it wasn't identical loops, over and over, but that there was progress each time (each time the universe was repaired a bit more).

So the next loop he'll do better. Refine the loop a bit more, you know? (The basic idea being he can't ever finish until he stops doing stupid shit, like dropping Jake).

Spoiler about the last book:


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Reply #61 on: May 25, 2016, 02:41:04 PM

In the movie thread and not book I know, but it got me thinking about it.

I read the first Dark Tower book, didn't like it or think it was anything special.  Should I keep going or will I likely not care for the series if I didn't enjoy the first book?

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Reply #62 on: May 25, 2016, 02:53:00 PM

First book isn't very strong and the writing, IMO, isn't particularly good.  The middle part of the series is the best with the quality tapering off during some of the later plot lines. 

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Reply #63 on: May 25, 2016, 08:23:39 PM

In the movie thread and not book I know, but it got me thinking about it.

I read the first Dark Tower book, didn't like it or think it was anything special.  Should I keep going or will I likely not care for the series if I didn't enjoy the first book?

Books 2, 3 and 4 are very good, and so are the connected novels Insomnia and Black House, but 5-7 are just awful.  The very ending of the last book, after King warns readers to stop reading, is worth reading, though.
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Reply #64 on: May 25, 2016, 09:41:22 PM

It's funny how differently we all relate to the series. For myself, the first book was quite good, if sparingly told. The Drawing of the Three had some very good parts, and some very bad writing. The Waste Lands were WTF WTF WTF all strung together -- but told well. Wizard and Glass, damn good. Wolves of the Calla rambles, a lot. Song of Susannah picks the pace back up and I liked a lot of the things there that some hated. The Dark Tower finally gets to the, well, Dark Tower, but I wasn't that happy with the journey's "end."

Insomnia I hated, Black House I thought pretty good.

I had no idea Through the Keyhole existed until just now looking at a list of the books on Wikipedia. Guess I got some readin' to do.

It really just boils down to do you like King's prose style or not? If you do then boy does The Dark Tower series have a lot of it! If you don't, well, there is a lot you're going to have to slog through to get to the end -- you might want to consider the graphic novels. I hear they are pretty good.

Final note, for good or bad, The Dark Tower is King's Middle Earth. He admits to being obsessed with it in much the same way as Tolkien was obsessed with his creation, even when he wanted to be working on other projects something about the mythic cycle kept bringing him back. This can make for a compelling read, or bore you to tears.

Sometimes in the same book.
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Reply #65 on: May 25, 2016, 10:13:29 PM

Never really was a fan of Kings prose to be honest, though I loved the Eyes of the Dragon. I read the First book in this when I was a teenager and I thought it was pretty meh. So probably the Graphic novels for me, though I spent some time reading the Wiki today.

As for Edris Elba, they could probably make that woman character Asian or something and keep the same racial overtones. Racism isn't just whites hating everyone.

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Reply #66 on: May 26, 2016, 09:32:02 AM

I thought Gunslinger was very good, and I couldn't get past the Detta part of Drawing of the Three. IDK. I just stopped there twice when trying many years apart.

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Reply #67 on: May 26, 2016, 12:21:05 PM

I like world books. And movies for that matter. So stuff that bores most folks does fine by me. I loved this whole series, but previous sentence explains why.

If you haven't read the Keyhole book, do it. It's excellent.

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Reply #68 on: May 03, 2017, 07:26:57 AM

Trailer 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjwfqXTebIY

I'm torn on this one. The cast looks amazing but there's something off about the theme. The books made everything seem gritty and grim. This is clean.
Morat20
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Reply #69 on: May 03, 2017, 07:59:32 AM

Be interesting to see how they handle the story -- specifically how far they go and what they count as an "ending".. I know it's "the next time around", as it were. And I think the TV series they're talking about is Wizard's and Glass.

I'd bet they end the movie at the beach (possibly without losing Jake this time). It's a good ending point. The man in black is (sorta) defeated, there whole point of the Tower and the series is that the battle never ends, but you can win victories, etc.

As for the trailer -- liked the other reloading trick (him just thumbing the bullets in -- the CGI looked fairly good there), and really liked the long bullet shot at the end. Kind of shows off the fact that gunslingers are superhumanly good.

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