Torchlight II (not the MMO)

[Hutch]

Runic Games announces plans for Torchlight II, coming out in 2011

(link goes to Gamasutra article)

Sounds good. They're promising multiplayer along with more customization, etc.

[Malakili]

Runic Games announces plans for Torchlight II, coming out in 2011

(link goes to Gamasutra article)

Sounds good. They're promising multiplayer along with more customization, etc.

I'm now officially more excited about this than I was about the MMO.

[Mattemeo]

Biggest draw for me is customisable character creation. If Torchlight had had that at the outset, I'd have picked it up in an instant. As it is, a hack and slash RPG where I have to choose a prescribed character just doesn't hold much interest for me; so it went alongside Borderlands as 'interesting idea, fun game, just can't fall in love with it'. Never got a chance to check out the modability of the game, though. If it's anything like as intuitive as Neverwinter Nights was, and they're improving it with II, then that'll be another reason for me to keep an eye on it.

Bring on 2011, I guess.

[Nonentity]

Multiplayer! Woo!

[Musashi]

This makes a whole lot more sense to me than forcing the game into that nebulous 'MMO' title and saddling it with what would probably be a ridiculous pricing scheme.  A wise plan.

[Hutch]

According to today's announcement, Torchlight II is an entirely separate project, and the MMO is still in the works.

[Paelos]

The question would be why? If you are doing a multiplayer Torchlight, is there a reason we would want an MMOG as well?

[Ingmar]

The question would be why? If you are doing a multiplayer Torchlight, is there a reason we would want an MMOG as well?

...because some people like MMOs? The market for a Diablo-style game and the market for an MMO are not 100% overlapping after all.

[Sjofn]

Biggest draw for me is customisable character creation.

I dunno if I'd get too excited over the words "more customization." I basically took that to mean "you can probably play a girl in whichever class you want this time." Won't mind being wrong though.

I am also more excited by this than the vague MMO whatnot. I have an MMO I am perfectly content with. But I really liked Torchlight aside from the GIANT GLARING FLAW that Torchlight 2 is addressing: No multiplayer was seriously silly. Fixing that? Well then, that is fucking sweet!

[Paelos]

The question would be why? If you are doing a multiplayer Torchlight, is there a reason we would want an MMOG as well?

...because some people like MMOs? The market for a Diablo-style game and the market for an MMO are not 100% overlapping after all.

Yeah, but what does the MMO offer that multiplayer dungeon crawling doesn't in this instance? Crafting? Auctions? Housing? One would have to imagine the gameplay would be fundamentally the same. I mean, assuming they keep it microtrans, I don't really see the point of doing both when you could just throw all your assets into a proven sequal with the big thing that everyone wanted.

[Ingmar]

The question would be why? If you are doing a multiplayer Torchlight, is there a reason we would want an MMOG as well?

...because some people like MMOs? The market for a Diablo-style game and the market for an MMO are not 100% overlapping after all.

Yeah, but what does the MMO offer that multiplayer dungeon crawling doesn't in this instance? Crafting? Auctions? Housing? One would have to imagine the gameplay would be fundamentally the same. I mean, assuming they keep it microtrans, I don't really see the point of doing both when you could just throw all your assets into a proven sequal with the big thing that everyone wanted.

Without a feature list or more information from the devs about what would be involved in either, I don't see how we can really say.

As far as throwing your assets at one thing or another, they talked about an MMO well before they talked about going down the multiplayer a-la Diablo route AFAIK, so they probably have a lot of costs sunk into the MMO development that they're not willing to walk away from.

[Paelos]

I guess, but I just get the feeling that the MMO is going to die because of this decision.

[Ironwood]

Don't be daft.

First hit is free dude.

[Malakili]

I guess, but I just get the feeling that the MMO is going to die because of this decision.

Frankly, I'd be fine with that.  I think the important thing though is some sort of "closed" server.  If Torchlight 2 multiplayer is effectively open, then its immediately less desirable because 1/2 the people you play with will have all sorts of custom items, etc, all the persistence that made D2 appealing for a long time would be missing, and it would be more similar to Dungeon Siege or Titan Quest multiplayer, neither of which ever caught on.

Give that mods were one of the big features of TL1, and TL2 will likely sport a similar feature set, I think it would be hard to square a "closed" server for multiplayer with that large amount of modability.  Of course, they could have both open and closed ways of playing.  If TL2 doesn't have something like that, then the MMO still has some separate appeal.

[Paelos]

True, open multiplayer would be effectively worthless. I assumed they wouldn't go that route, but who knows.

[Azazel]

Excellent news!

Torchlight II: What the First One Should Have Been.
It might even get multiple full-price sales from me instead of 1x $5 steam discount bin sale.

also, fuck another shitty MMOG.

[Musashi]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out they were looking around at what they were building and decided it just wasn't an MMO.  We know that at least Baldree wasn't sounding too keen on cash  shops.  It's more likely that they just decided that if they were going to really sink the kind of development money needed for an MMO that it probably isn't a bad idea to build their brand a little more by releasing another low cost improvement on the original.  So we'll definitely see an MMO.  But the only question is how far down the line.  And quite frankly, who cares?  As long as they keep putting out Torchlight quality diablo-likes, they can take as long as they want to perfect TorchlightCraft.

[Malakili]

As long as they keep putting out Torchlight quality diablo-likes, they can take as long as they want to perfect TorchlightCraft.

At least until Diablo 3 comes out.  I'm sure people like me who get all giddy over good ARPGs will just play both, but there are a lot of people out there who will abandon Torchlight (1,2,MMO, whatever), as soon as D3 hits the shelves.

[Ratman_tf]

At least until Diablo 3 comes out.  I'm sure people like me who get all giddy over good ARPGs will just play both, but there are a lot of people out there who will abandon Torchlight (1,2,MMO, whatever), as soon as D3 hits the shelves.

For myself, it'll be whoever makes the funnest dungeon crawler. And given Blizzard's wonky performance lately, I wouldn't call them a sure thing anymore. Maybe 99%. 

[Musashi]

As long as they keep putting out Torchlight quality diablo-likes, they can take as long as they want to perfect TorchlightCraft.

At least until Diablo 3 comes out.  I'm sure people like me who get all giddy over good ARPGs will just play both, but there are a lot of people out there who will abandon Torchlight (1,2,MMO, whatever), as soon as D3 hits the shelves.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.  Runic has dudes that made Diablo 2.  And although the loot in Torchlight made me want to slap them in the face with my limp dick, I still wouldn't count them out.  I'm as excited about D3 as it is possible to be - impending Facebook debacle notwithstanding, but it's two years out at least.  With this announcement, the Torchlight MMO is possibly pushed back further than that?  Who knows what happens in that kind of time.  I think there's room in this genre for both.  Actually, there's probably more room than that.  Given that the rest of the people in the universe that make games like this are either at Runic, Blizzard, or Crate, it's not like the market is saturated.

[Aez]

Good idea.  Runic Games is the former Flagship, who invented the the schizophrenic Hellgate's suscribtion model (we are a mmo, no we are not).  It looks like they still have an hard time making out their mind.

[Malakili]

Good idea.  Runic Games is the former Flagship, who invented the the schizophrenic Hellgate's suscribtion model (we are a mmo, no we are not).  It looks like they still have an hard time making out their mind.

Well, a lot of these guys were from the "North" team that didn't have much to do with HGL, though I think some of them are?   I can't remember, but I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that the MMO section of their forum is mostly people asking for features that are actually better off in a normal multiplayer game.  If they had never said Torchlight MMO was in development and just said a sequel with multiplayer is, no one would have been thinking "boy I sure wish they'd go the free to play MMO route." 

Now, the MMO is hypothetically still coming, but more Torchlight + expansions would be way more to my liking anyway.  I can't help but think they should've stayed away from perfect world entertainment as their publisher, but until it actually goes south, I guess I can't complain too much.

[Ratman_tf]

So what does customizable characters mean? Do I get a nostril slider? 

[Sjofn]

So what does customizable characters mean? Do I get a nostril slider? 

My money is on penis/no penis.

[koro]

PC Gamer interview.

PC Gamer: Shall we move on to the new classes you’ve got and talk about the customisation?

Travis Baldree: We’re only announcing two classes at this point and, man, I hesitate to say what their names are, because they were arguing over them!

Max Schaefer: These are working names. These are not the actual final names.

Travis Baldree: I’m going to check my email, because I’m pretty sure someone had some names down! We’re going to get in trouble with our art teams if we say the wrong names. So the two classes we’re going to be revealing are the Wanderer, who’s almost kind of a… hell, we’ve got a class description here somewhere!

Max Schaefer: There was some push to call him the Nomad, or the Wanderer…

Travis Baldree: I guess they’re called the Outlander, now. Who has, what’s a good way of describing this so that somebody also doesn’t kill me? It’s kind of a Dune Fremen sort of character, someone who’s on the fringe and has survivalist tendencies, various facility with ranged weapons and low magic. The other classic is the Railman, who’se like an engineer melee warrior class that basically, on the frontier, trying to push forward into unpopulated areas, and they’re responsible for constructing the means of getting there and also the advanced fortifications and they also have to be able to protect themselves. They have some of that steam-punky mechanical bent from Torchlight.

[Sjofn]

  pants in the monocle lady art

[Malakili]

So what does customizable characters mean? Do I get a nostril slider? 

My money is on penis/no penis.

Highly likely, the gender mods are some of the most popular in Torchlight as it is.  Who doesn't want to play a destroyer with the vanquisher model?

[Nonentity]

So what does customizable characters mean? Do I get a nostril slider? 

My money is on penis/no penis.

Highly likely, the gender mods are some of the most popular in Torchlight as it is.  Who doesn't want to play a destroyer with the vanquisher model?

Well, snagging a line from that interview for those who didn't read it:

Travis Baldree: So we have, for the sequel, randomised outdoor regions with time of day that passes and weather. We do character customisation now, as opposed to the three iconic characters we did in Torchlight. You can choose your gender, and when you’re choosing your class you can choose different faces and hairstyles and features, and so on. All that stuff features in the MMO, but it just seems like a great time to go ahead and do it.

[Yegolev]

I am assuming at least a Mythos level of customization.  Which is great.

[Musashi]

As one of the resident dickhead purists, I'll just say I couldn't care less about character customization.  You customize your dude with your min/max mojo on his skill screen.  Torchlight II could use a few more robust options in that department when compared to its predecessor.  They didn't really go over that exactly in the interview.  But it seems like they're trying to address the shortcomings of the original, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Ratman_tf]

I'm hoping the work on quests and overland will also include more interactive and interesting dungeon layouts.

I also think that cribbing ideas from Link to the Past's dungeons would be keen for Diablo-a-likes.

[Paelos]

I hope they work on loot to make it more integrated into the game. Grabbing a high level POS and enchanting the hell out it pretty much beat anything else I could find in the dungeons, but I'm not sure if that was everyone's experience. I'd like to see less emphasis on the enchanting side as the great equalizer of gear, and more involved in making cool sets and items.

[Ingmar]

I hope they work on loot to make it more integrated into the game. Grabbing a high level POS and enchanting the hell out it pretty much beat anything else I could find in the dungeons, but I'm not sure if that was everyone's experience. I'd like to see less emphasis on the enchanting side as the great equalizer of gear, and more involved in making cool sets and items.

Yeah I would agree with this. It always seemed kind of messed up that I was rooting for white items to drop because of the enchanting system.

[Yegolev]

You customize your dude with your min/max mojo on his skill screen.  Torchlight II could use a few more robust options in that department when compared to its predecessor.  They didn't really go over that exactly in the interview.  But it seems like they're trying to address the shortcomings of the original, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I happen to agree but am less optimistic.  I think I saw the word "accessible".  At the very least, I can assume we won't be seeing the Fate skill system.

[Musashi]

Yea, I'd be happy if each class had at least two viable playstyles.  I know 'Accessible' usually means 'For Halo Retards.'  But don't crush my dreams yet.