Minecraft - f13 Server is: chugging along... again (Read OP)

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm not disputing that. I was just saying, its been solved ever since minecraft started gaining traction. There are what....4-5 clones now, and counting. Its in every mag, every publication and has had about eleventybillion documents writing about such systems.

You cant throw a dart and not hit something minecraft now.

[Modern Angel]

I'm not making a direct comparison between DF and Minecraft. That's insane and, frankly, overdone, since everyone immediately went OMG DWARF FORTRESS BUT 3D once Minecraft released. But I do think you can compare the way they succeeded and how the communities work, even though Minecraft is several magnitudes bigger at this point.

I'm certain there are clones of Minecraft. That's not the question. It's whether someone can monetize it better than the Minecraft guys can. I don't think that's going to happen. What, another basement studio of three dudes is going to peel off 15k Minecraft users? Maybe four or five of those studios? The only people that are going to make a marketable, massive Minecraft that becomes The Next Big Thing (as it relates to everyday gamers) are studios that aren't interested in touching Minecraft style games with a ten foot pole.

Death metal musicians don't join jazz ensembles to play Glen Miller tunes.

[Ingmar]

It never happened. Suits don't think that way. Most studios of more than ten people don't think that way. It's never going to happen, ever, because it's not a platformer, not a MMO, not a war simulation FPS, not a RTS.

Same thing with Minecraft. Never going to happen. 10, 15 years ago? Absolutely. The industry's not the same.

Dwarf fortress is a completely different type of game.  As in, the AI and interactions in DF is massively complex, and attempting to replicate the technical and non-technical aspects of DF is pretty complicated.  Minecraft on the other hand is more of a technical complexity of dealing with the randomization, storage, and memory requirements of the system but the core idea is pretty easy to map out and enhance in your own direction.

Dwarf Fortress is just a really neckbeardy Sims when you get down to it. I think someone could make the case.

EDIT: Well that got all fucked up, I hope I'm still quoting the right person.

[Modern Angel]

I get what you're saying and I think it's in reply to me. I compare it more to Spore due to the world generation and the march of civilization over time taking place in the background. But yeah, there's a ton of The Sims in there, too.

I don't want to get too far afield from my main point, though. I think there's a huge untapped market for DF and Minecraft, different as they are. They're sandboxes. But to reach that full potential, it's going to take a real studio with a real publisher and real money behind it; those studios rarely take chances or do labors of love anymore. Two million copies for Minecraft is just fucking huge. Toady living off his donations for DF is just as huge in its own way given what a (glorious) mess the game is.

If I had the people around me with a really good AI programmer, I'd pull the trigger on a mass market DF clone tomorrow.

[KallDrexx]

I don't want to get too far afield from my main point, though. I think there's a huge untapped market for DF and Minecraft, different as they are. They're sandboxes. But to reach that full potential, it's going to take a real studio with a real publisher and real money behind it; those studios rarely take chances or do labors of love anymore. Two million copies for Minecraft is just fucking huge. Toady living off his donations for DF is just as huge in its own way given what a (glorious) mess the game is.

I agree, and it makes me sad that they decided to to take Valve's offer (unless Valve only gave an insultingly low offer).  Valve knows how to handle the business sense, has a track record of leaving people in charge of products they purchase, they know fun(tm), and have a lot of amazing resources to help realize the full potential of a product. 

[Quinton]

I'm not sure if true sandbox games like this make sense for larger studios.  Minecraft is definitely proof you can build up a nice following, and hell, with a small team that's interested in building and sustaining a sandbox game business you can do it with a much smaller userbace.  But if you start putting AAA title type resources on something like this, I think you're going to have trouble making that money back.

A friend of mine, recently having left gamesdev, observed that the market is really brutal for midsize studios right now.  1-3 people shops can build stuff and survive, and the AAA stuff still manages to happen, but 10-50 person shops have an awful hard time making ends meet and have been imploding like crazy in recent years.

[Amaron]

I'm certain there are clones of Minecraft. That's not the question. It's whether someone can monetize it better than the Minecraft guys can. I don't think that's going to happen.

Why does someone have to monetize it to mess over Notch's business?   Frankly I'd suspect an open source project is more likely to steam roll him pretty soon.   I'd go so far to say that Notch is damn lucky he chose to use Java actually.   If Minecraft didn't run in Linux it would of been full feature cloned a lonnggg time ago.

[Ingmar]

I'm sure the giant Linux gaming segment would make or break him. 

[Amaron]

I'm sure the giant Linux gaming segment would make or break him. 

Because that same Linux clone couldn't be ported back to windows with the flick of a few compiler switches?   

[Zaljerem]

1.6 .... release date of "not soon" ...

and now a functioning Nether in multiplayer.

Thank you.

Map is neat and all, but I use Overviewer and c10t, so no real hurry on that.

[Mrbloodworth]

Finally!

[Vaiti]

Sweet, only took him a couple months after mods made this possible. He is speeding up.

[Druzil]

The solution ended up being simple, you just have everyone on the server stand on the portal at the same time

[Mrbloodworth]

Awesome, many mods are now using Ads in them with popups.

I guess thats one reason not to have a secure mod system :/

[Vaiti]

I noticed that for SSP mods on the main minecraft forum alot of coders were using ad.fly to host the links for their downloads. So hearing this isn't surprising.

[NiX]

Tangetially related: Has anyone else seen Terraria?.
tl;dr - 2D platformer version of Minecraft: http://youtu.be/UGo7iMUcxLc

Released on Steam today for $10. 4 pack for $30.

Sooo, we doing this?

[Mrbloodworth]

Guess whats comming to minecraft?

[Rendakor]

What am I looking at there BW?

[Mrbloodworth]

The opposite of the Nether. Its an air plane.

notch Markus Persson
I spent a lot of time today trying to add a floating island dimension. It did not go well. Performs well, looks ugly.

notch Markus Persson
Some pics of the sky dimension thing I was working on last night: http://imgur.com/a/cvsYW

And:

notch Markus Persson
And because PC Gamer made such a big deal of the sky dimension, I guess I'll have to finish it. Consider it confirmed.

Also:

notch Markus Persson
You're the awesomest people ever! <3 Oh, and 1.6 is coming next week.

[Rendakor]

Oh, that's interesting.

[RUiN 427]

So you would port there like the hell dimension? I'm a bit more stoked on this when people build it themselves.

[Hawkbit]

There was a decent mod called Skylands that was out a few months back, my kid and I tinkered with it a bit.  Gets fun when sand/gravel start shifting... just walking across areas will cause a fall.  Hope he picks some things from that mod.

[Yegolev]

The opposite of the Nether. Its an air plane.

I guessed way wrong.

[Mrbloodworth]

What did you guess?

[Mrbloodworth]

notch Markus Persson
1.6 is aimed at Wednesday. Which means we'll probably release it late Thursday. ;)

Also:  Minecraft Universe

[Mrbloodworth]

The changelist for 1.6

Minecraft Beta 1.6 is getting release later this week.

Here’s the changelist so far:

1.6:

+ Added craftable maps
+ Added hatches
+ Added tall grass in some biomes
+ Mushrooms now spreads (very) slowly
+ Added server property view-distance. Sets the radius of terrain updates (in chunks) to send to the players. Range 3-15, default 10.

* It’s no longer possible to build solid blocks on the top layer of the maps (sorry!)
* Players stuck in walls will slide towards the nearest gap if there is one
* Made booster tracks speedier
* Severely nerfed fire so it spread slower, and doesn’t spread infinitely
* Seeds are now found in tall grass, using a hoe on the ground no longer works
* Blocks destroyed by other players in multiplayer now shows the breaking block particle effect
* Activated dispensers make sounds and trigger particles in multiplayer
* Doors make sound for other players in multiplayer
* The record player now supports more than 15 different songs

* Fixed running out of memory corrupting the current level
* Fixed the side textures of grass getting extra dark when mining them
* Fixed anaglyph 3d rendering mode having severe visual bugs
* Fixed the crash screen vanishing immediately
* Fixed not being able to target blocks when at x or z pos 1000
* Fixed the achievements screen messing up the sky color
* Fixed saving while sneaking dropping the player through the ground
* Fixed a system clock change messing up the game speed
* Fixed rain sounds not playing with fast graphics enabled
* Fixed hair and cloaks being rendered in the wrong locations on sneaking players
* Fixed the attack/swing animation not being applied to the armor layer
* Fixed player rotation not being loaded correctly when loading a saved game
* Fixed arrow physics, making them not get stuck midair when you open a door
* Fixed arrows hitting reeds, portals, and other non-solid blocks
* Fixed keybindings not getting saved properly under certain conditions
* Fixed the player not being able to sneak off lowered blocks like cacti
* Fixed a bug where the player could mine without swinging their arm
* Fixed boats placed on snow being placed too far up
* Fixed submerged boats rising very very fast
* Fixed sand dropping onto boats getting stuck in a falling animation
* Fixed a game crash when riding a vehicle or animal into the nether
* Fixed falling while riding not dealing damage to the rider
* Fixed buttons and levers too close to the player being impossible to use
* Fixed dispensers shooting through walls
* Fixed fire hurting through wall corners
* Fixed entities reaching water through wall corners
* Fixed placing doors next to cacti creating half-doors
* Fixed buttons and levers being placeable on leaves in “fast graphics” mode
* Fixed furnaces and dispensers not dropping their contents when destroyed
* Fixed dispensers biasing later slots
* Fixed farmland taking too long to dig
* Fixed tilling below some blocks being possible
* Fixed tilling the underside of blocks somehow working
* Fixed fences and stairs sometimes becoming invisible
* Fixed walking on top of fences not producing step sounds
* Fixed fire sometimes existing mid-air as an invisible block of pain
* Fixed fences and wooden stairs not being flammable
* Fixed fire effect on burning entities sometimes getting rendered in the wrong location
* Fixed fishing rod rendering being a bit lacking
* Fixed fishing rods being stackable
* Fixed mining glass hiding the clouds behind the glass
* Fixed rain falling through liquids
* Fixed items in glass blocks not getting ejected properly
* Fixed water interacting strangely with glass
* Fixed glass not blocking rain sound
* Fixed fences and signs preventing grass from growing
* Fixed rain and snow being incorrectly lit
* Fixed grass staying alive below stair blocks
* Fixed the achievement screen not pausing the game
* Fixed some screens breaking the sky tint color
* Fixed fullscreen mode switching causing mouse issues and screen closes
* Fixed chat messages surviving through game switches
* Fixed ice so it regenerates regardless of whether it’s snowing or not
* Fixed rain falling too slowly
* Fixed levers being placeable on weird locations
* Fixed floor levers sometimes not delivering a signal downwards
* Fixed floor levers sometimes not being removed when the floor is removed
* Fixed rail tiles sometimes not properly connecting to a new neighbor
* Fixed minecarts next to each other causing extreme velocities (sorry!)
* Fixed wolves not following their owner if the name has different caps
* Fixed creepers retaining charge level when they can’t see their target
* Fixed dying in the nether spawning new portals
* “Fixed” beds in the nether
* Fixed inventory acting weird when portaling by making the portal close all screens
* Fixed wooden pressure plates being mined with pickaxes
* Fixed redstone repeaters having the wrong particles
* Fixed saplings being plantable through snow onto non-grass blocks
* Fixed ore density varying per quadrant from the center of the world
* Fixed dispenser graphics being one pixel off. ONE PIXEL!!!
* Fixed mushrooms spawning everywhere during nights
* Fixed animals only spawning near light during the night
* Fixed the multiplayer join screen input field being too short
* Fixed IPv6 addresses being parsed wrongly. To connect to a specific port in IPv6, use the format [1234:567::1]:25565
* Fixed network packets being sent unbuffered, causing huge amounts of packets being sent
* Fixed entity positions going out of synch sometimes. They get re-synched every 20 seconds now.
* Fixed inventory icons not animating after being picked up in multiplayer
* Fixed mushroom soup not leaving a bowl in multiplayer
* Fixed entities above the map height limit becoming invisible
* Fixed healing not flashing the health bar in multiplayer
* Fixed arrows being animated really strangely in multiplayer
* Fixed arrows triggering too many entity move updates in multiplayer
* Fixed the compass not pointing at the spawn location in multiplayer
* Fixed fires being impossible to put out in multiplayer
* Fixed record players spawning client-side fake records in multiplayer
* Fixed records not playing for other players in multiplayer
* Fixed players spawning in the wrong location and quickly lerping to the correct location
* Fixed monsters not being visible for players with their difficulty set to peaceful
* Fixed pigs getting hit by lightning in multiplayer spawning client-side zombie pigmen
* Fixed loads of exploding tnt generating way too many particles, possibly crashing the client
* Fixed bonemeal use in multiplayer sometimes spawning fake client-side trees
* Fixed saplings sometimes spawning trees client-side in multiplayer
* Fixed weather sometimes changing client-side in multiplayer
* Fixed grasscolor.png and foliagecolor.png not being read from texture packs
* Fixed stats getting saved to different files in offline mode if the caps in the player name differ from the true spelling

[bhodi]

He fixed most of the bugs on the wiki page, but refuses to understand how important the community is and continues to ignore extremely popular mods. He hasn't made any significant progress on any sort of API nor does he seem to think it's a priority. Instead of embracing major mod creators, he has made it extremely difficult and unrewarding to try and add much needed functionality to the base game. People try anyway, but a lot of them are getting burned out at this point.

I'm shelving my interest in minecraft for another few months, because the changes between last time I played and now (in multiplayer, the only way to play) are just a few additional blocks. Hell, nether portals STILL don't work in multi.

[Mrbloodworth]

Uh,...

+ Added craftable maps
+ Added hatches
+ Added tall grass in some biomes
+ Mushrooms now spreads (very) slowly
+ Added server property view-distance. Sets the radius of terrain updates (in chunks) to send to the players. Range 3-15, default 10.

He forgot to list Nether works in multiplayer.

I forgot to add * Added Nether support to multiplayer! Seems like a big feature.. should be on the list!

Otherwise I agree with you on the API stuff.

[Fordel]

What is "Added hatches" ?

[Malakili]

What is "Added hatches" ?

I tried explaining it in words, but this is easier:

[Fordel]

Oh, I get yea.

Watching too much SC2, hatches = zerg hives in my mind now. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Minecraft 1.6 trailer

[Mrbloodworth]

[FatuousTwat]

Here, have this!

[Amaron]

I found this while I was cruising around the net:

http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=64337

Appears to be someone making survival mode minecraft with Ogre3d.