Darkspore

[tgr]

It's very simple. If it's an MMO, fine. If not, fuck off with your online requirement. By all means add it as a value-adding feature, but fuck right off with making it mandatory.

Spore's creatures does not quantify as a "massive multiplayer online" game in my view.

[Bzalthek]

I don't care if it's an MMO or not.  The only reason for constant internet is if it's an online only game, if it has a single player element, I want to be able to play that single player part of the game without an internet connection.  Not that I'm ever without an internet connection, but so fucking what?  Of course what I want and what they make doesn't have to meet, but I'm not going to buy that shit unless it's Jesusperm.

[Typhon]

The lines of what is an "MMO" and what isn't are beginning to blur a bit, and will probably become even more blurred over the next five years.  I expect almost all games to have a serious online component soon, even if it is something like Demon's Souls that allows for somewhat different forms of PvP. 

Especially since 1) they mostly have to code for this stuff anyway (online), 2) people hate DRM / DRM doesn't work, 3) people love achievements (we know this because our corporate masters say so), 4) only old gamers and pirates are seriously put off by not being able to play offline.

4) matters less and less every year.

[tgr]

4) only old gamers and pirates are seriously put off by not being able to play offline.

4) matters less and less every year.

I'm feeling discriminated against because of my age.

[K9]

Ho hum; I liked the look of the playthrough, but I don't NEED this, so I guess I'll wait for it to hit a Steam sale.

[Ghambit]

Most people bitching about the online requirement are likely sitting forever on Steam, Xfire or some such.  

[Malakili]

Most people bitching about the online requirement are likely sitting forever on Steam, Xfire or some such.  

Yeah, and yet I can play Steam games in Offline mode, so Valve actually addressed the exact problem.

[Sky]

But DO you?

[Bzalthek]

I do frequently.  Mainly because I simply forgot to log back into steam.

[tgr]

Most people bitching about the online requirement are likely sitting forever on Steam, Xfire or some such.  

There's a huge difference here. When a publisher requires you keep an open connection to play the game, or to authenticate yourself to their server every time you start the game, or even when you install it the first time, that's something extra they've added on top. I can't download the game from them, I can possibly store my savegames on their gameserver (and given how well their DRM solutions have worked so far, I'm sure that'll work WELL...), and ... that's it so far.

Steam is its own store, it provides the install media, it allows preloading, it automatically updates (should you feel like letting it do that), it stores savegames (should you feel like letting it do that AND they've added support for that in the game), it has regular sales, and most importantly, it has a vested interest in actually keeping the games you've bought around. And, it has an offline mode so in general, as long as you've installed the game, you can play it. I ended up spending well over a week playing AI War non-stop because I had installed it prior to my internet connection going down for (you guessed it) well over a week.

I've no idea what xfire is, some sort of statistics thingy? I don't really care.

In short, one solution gives added value, one doesn't.

[Malakili]

But DO you?

When my connection goes out, yes.   Considering this is not so rare an occurrence, I consider it a valuable feature.

[Ghambit]

My point with bringing up Steam is that the only REAL difference between these new quasi-MMO games and Steam is that Steam services many games at one time.  And that's it.  Really.

Darkspore gives you leaderboards, posisbly a store, news, achievements, social networking, a lobby, messaging, etc.
Steam gives you exactly the same.

Steam doesnt function unless steam is online, otherwise it's just a glorified loading screen.
Concurrently, all those features the Devs put into DS wont function unless online as well.

We're getting to the point here where people are literally saying they want their MP/MMO game to run offline.  Cmon man.
It's the equivalent of buying Diablo3 and only playing single-player mode.  Sure, some people might do it, but guess what... I'm not gonna build my game to cater to them and I wouldnt give an avenue for people to:

a) forget to go online and miss the content I worked so hard to produce
b) bork the community, store, etc. for not being present
c) lessen the marketing value of having so many people in one place
d) more easily pirate

[Samwise]

Steam doesnt function unless steam is online, otherwise it's just a glorified loading screen.

It will still let you play your games, though.  That is the crucial element people are complaining about.

[Ghambit]

Steam doesnt function unless steam is online, otherwise it's just a glorified loading screen.

It will still let you play your games, though.  That is the crucial element people are complaining about.

Can we agree that it's only crucial in "designed to be" single-player or local co-op games?
Jeez, even consoles are pretty much required to have an always-on connection these days (at the very least a registration), otherwise you're not getting even remotely your money's worth.

[Lantyssa]

Not letting me play a game because it needs to update some achievement is stupid.  I don't care about the social shit in a single-player game.

[tgr]

Jeez, even consoles are pretty much required to have an always-on connection these days (at the very least a registration), otherwise you're not getting even remotely your money's worth.

[Tell] me about what consoles need an always-on connection for to get my money's worth ... of whatever.

[Azazel]

Can we agree that it's only crucial in "designed to be" single-player or local co-op games?
Jeez, even consoles are pretty much required to have an always-on connection these days (at the very least a registration), otherwise you're not getting even remotely your money's worth.

I get absolutely no added value from my PS3 being connected to the net.
I only get any value from my 360 being connected when playing on XBL, buying DLC, or getting the occasional patch. None of which require "always-on" in the slightest.
My Wii has never been connnected to the net. Does the Wii count? It's the console with the highest install base, so it should count, no?

What's a "designed to be" single-player game, anyway? Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood and Bioshock 2 have tacked-on MP modes. Does this mean you shouldn't be able to play the SP without an "always-on" internet connection? Fuck that noise. I just don't buy 'em.

[Ghambit]

DS is centered around co-op play, kind of like Magicka actually... especially with the synergies involved with some of the builds.  Buying it to play solo is just  .  Using that logic, requiring a connection isnt too much of a stretch.

[tgr]

DS is centered around co-op play, kind of like Magicka actually... especially with the synergies involved with some of the builds.  Buying it to play solo is just  .  Using that logic, requiring a connection isnt too much of a stretch.

[Tell] me how something about a DS blanket applies to all consoles.

[Bzalthek]

Well, I'm reading the Strategy Informer interview and they are touting it as having a solo and co-op campaigns, and while they say it really shines in co-op, I don't think that buying it to play solo is all that laughable considering the co-op is limited to 4 players.  At this level it's just a matter of personal preference, and persistent online seems excessive.  But hey I may be wrong.  People will probably disagree and how many do is probably debatable.  But I, and at least several others, won't put up with that shit because back in our day we used to walk uphill both ways to play video games! 

[Azazel]

DS is centered around co-op play, kind of like Magicka actually... especially with the synergies involved with some of the builds.  Buying it to play solo is just  .  Using that logic, requiring a connection isnt too much of a stretch.

I don't really give a shit about Darkspore. I was addressing the bullshit point you made about how "always-on" is pretty much required for consoles these days. Which you chose to ignore. Good argument, well done. Good job.

[Rendakor]

4) only old gamers and pirates are seriously put off by not being able to play offline.

4) matters less and less every year.

I'd bet that there's a pirated version that works offline within a week of launch, tops.

[Sheepherder]

Ghambit, you need to realize that you're in the minority position here, that you're not going to change any minds, and that you're wrong.

If co-op play is going to be such a huge feature of this game they really don't need always on authentication for single player, do they?

[Ghambit]

DS is centered around co-op play, kind of like Magicka actually... especially with the synergies involved with some of the builds.  Buying it to play solo is just  .  Using that logic, requiring a connection isnt too much of a stretch.

I don't really give a shit about Darkspore. I was addressing the bullshit point you made about how "always-on" is pretty much required for consoles these days. Which you chose to ignore. Good argument, well done. Good job.

Do you logoff (nay, physically DISCONNECT) your console even though you dont "require" it to be constantly connected?  Regardless of your perceived value, MOST people have their 360s and Ps3 (I do not count the Wii  ) connected to the net at all times.  Furthermore, MOST people have an app. on their PCs eating packets as soon as they turn their box on... many of which are autologin, not even including stuff like Steam.

In this sense, DS is NO DIFFERENT.  I dont understand why you cant fathom this.

Personally, I despise DRM.  So if I've got to login to play a game when/wherever I want to, that's fine by me.  Especially if said game is largely coop, social in nature, and likely to receive regular content updates/patches.

[tgr]

Do you logoff (nay, physically DISCONNECT) your console even though you dont "require" it to be constantly connected?

Yes. There are currently no ethernet wires connected to my 360, nor have there been for close to a year. I still expect any and all games that aren't 100% online-based in nature to start up just fine.

[Sheepherder]

Do you logoff (nay, physically DISCONNECT) your console even though you dont "require" it to be constantly connected?

Does it count if I don't connect the console to the internet to begin with?

In this sense, DS is NO DIFFERENT.  I dont understand why you cant fathom this.

Oh, so Darkspore's servers will be providing hosting for screenshots and user-made mods, allowing download of the game client if I lose the media, and automatically patch via the game launcher, without the inconvenience of booting me out of a single player game if a sunspot takes out my internet then?  Good to know.

[Sky]

Spore features content sharing. You need to be online to share content. They appear to have taken the next step and made it an online single-player component, which they pretty much wanted for Spore. This is not quite the same as Ubi's online-only DRM, even if the end result is similar.

That said, the game isn't out yet, it hasn't been finalized, and I polish my armor with the tears of this thread.

Sunspots? 

[Kail]

Do you logoff (nay, physically DISCONNECT) your console even though you dont "require" it to be constantly connected?  Regardless of your perceived value, MOST people have their 360s and Ps3 (I do not count the Wii  ) connected to the net at all times.  Furthermore, MOST people have an app. on their PCs eating packets as soon as they turn their box on... many of which are autologin, not even including stuff like Steam.

In this sense, DS is NO DIFFERENT.  I dont understand why you cant fathom this.

That's not the sense that everyone's bitching about, though.  I don't care if my PC is sending my underwear size to government agents on mars or whatever, as long as I don't notice it.  When it starts pissing me off is when it starts popping windows in my face and shutting down my programs because pixie dust moonbeams sparkled the wrong magical bugglewump or some shit and now the authentication server is down.  It's not the fact that my computer is sending data over the internet that bugs me, it's the fact that when something goes wrong ON THEIR END, I'm fucked.  And not "even if I bought the game legitimately," but "BECAUSE I bought the game legitimately," since I guarantee the pirate version will not have this problem.

[Ingmar]

I kind of assume the persistent internet connection is so it can go grab everyone else's silly penis monsters to populate your game rather than anything to do with extraneous fluff like achievements.

[Sky]

I guarantee the pirate version will not have this problem.

I guarantee a much more sensible and legal reaction would just be to stick to your morals and not play the game.

[Typhon]

I kind of assume the persistent internet connection is so it can go grab everyone else's silly penis monsters to populate your game rather than anything to do with extraneous fluff like achievements.

Everyone talks up how they want player-made content, but no one wants to swallow the giant purple penis monster.  All you hypocrites make me sick!

[Azazel]

Do you logoff (nay, physically DISCONNECT) your console even though you dont "require" it to be constantly connected?  Regardless of your perceived value, MOST people have their 360s and Ps3 (I do not count the Wii  ) connected to the net at all times.  Furthermore, MOST people have an app. on their PCs eating packets as soon as they turn their box on... many of which are autologin, not even including stuff like Steam.

In this sense, DS is NO DIFFERENT.  I dont understand why you cant fathom this.

Ok, you're basically either an idiot or changing your argument from post to post.

You started by talking some shit about how consoles these days are required to be connected to the net at all times, now you're backpedalling and asking if I physically disconnect them and trying to confuse your idiot argument with shit about PC apps. Apples and oranges and straw men.

I'll be moving soonish. When I move, I won't have internet for a period of time. MY CONSOLES WILL STILL FUCKING WORK. ALL OF THE GAMES WILL STILL FUCKING WORK. THERE IS NO ACTUAL REQUIREMENT FOR THEM TO BE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.

Now, stop being a fuckwit. Please.


FWIW, I have no interest in this game and even if I did (a la original Spore) I'd be following Sky's tack and just not bothering to play it because of the idiot DRM.

[Nija]

DRM or not this game is really slow and boring.

[Ghambit]

DRM or not this game is really slow and boring.

NDA still up.
Also, game is delayed - again.  Now till April 26.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/18/darkspore-delayed-until-april-26-open-beta-planned/

Who knows, maybe they'll rethink their kitten-killing login requirement.

[Nija]

How the hell is there an NDA? I put in my email address and had a key within 30 minutes. Give me a break.

Game is shit. Just like Spore.