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Author Topic: NBA 2010  (Read 95262 times)
Paelos
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Reply #420 on: June 13, 2011, 10:14:52 AM

Say what you will about the Cleveland teams he played for, but he didn't play alone and didn't have the seasons they had by being completely alone. Granted, he didn't have Wade or Bosch to lean on while in Cleveland, but the results with his own game are eerily similar.

Right. The reason they don't bring that up is because he didn't play alone (that would just be silly). He played with the worst teammates in the NBA. Playing alone might have been better.

Before Lebron came into the league, Cleveland was 17-65. Three years later, they are 50-32. They make the playoffs for 5 years in a row, and were the #1 team in 2009 and 2010. The absolute moment he leaves, this very year, they went from 61-21 to 19-63.

Nobody does that. Nobody falls that far. Nobody suddenly goes from 40 games over .500 to 44 UNDER in a year!!! That team was the worst "team" in the decade.

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Reply #421 on: June 13, 2011, 10:19:51 AM

Cleveland didn't just lose Lebron though, they lost their entire front line (Shaq, Big Z and Varejao), they were basically in tank mode the whole season.

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Reply #422 on: June 13, 2011, 11:01:50 AM


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Reply #423 on: June 13, 2011, 11:26:38 AM

It's strange because LeBron was amazing in the fourth quarter when he played for Cleveland. I have no idea what happened to him this year. To me it would indicate it's more growing pains than he lacks some kind of mental fortitude needed to be clutch. They had the big show at the beginning of the year which made everyone think "championship or bust" but the way they talked all year about how they still need to learn to play as a team makes me think that privately they still think they had a great year and they proved they can make it to the finals and now they just need to seal the deal.

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Reply #424 on: June 13, 2011, 11:29:53 AM

Lebron was amazing in the fourth quarter against Boston and Chicago THIS YEAR.  He just disappears completely when the stage gets big.

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Reply #425 on: June 13, 2011, 12:19:42 PM

I think Colin Cowherd had it right. Guys with good fathers in their lives make the best superstars in the NBA. Guys that didn't have that always seem to lack the maturity necessary to get to that pinnacle.

Lebron lacks a lot of the maturity he needs, even his is post-game interviews, to be a "cold-iron" player.

I listen to Cowherd in the mornings on my drive to work sometimes, and this guy while very sports savvy seems to have the same problem a lot of the "lebron lovers" have. They don't understand why people dont like him. They (Cowherd and others) always say "why do people hate Lebron for leaving Cleaveland" and to that I respond "We dont hate Lebron for leaving, we hate him for the way he left".

Also, I think Lebron is the greatest physical player in the NBA right now. As in pure physical talent. Its his mental game thats holding him back. I'm pretty happy Dallas won.
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Reply #426 on: June 13, 2011, 12:24:16 PM

Lebron was amazing in the fourth quarter against Boston and Chicago THIS YEAR.  He just disappears completely when the stage gets big.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Px-jPm_TU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0b73xeSYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c4l8LW_ebw

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Reply #427 on: June 13, 2011, 12:38:50 PM

Uh what are those videos supposed to prove? Lebron destroyed Detroit then got swept by the Spurs, he lost against Orlando and Boston.  You are basically just reinforcing exactly what i said.

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Reply #428 on: June 13, 2011, 12:40:01 PM

Seems like you have a pretty arbitrary definition of when the stage is 'big' or not. He made it farther this year, after all.

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Reply #429 on: June 13, 2011, 01:07:17 PM

But it's not my definition that matters, it is his.  He keeps getting to a level where he seems to go "oh god i don't want to do this anymore" and checks out.

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Reply #430 on: June 13, 2011, 01:14:22 PM

Seems like you have a pretty arbitrary definition of when the stage is 'big' or not. He made it farther this year, after all.

So Wade and Bosch got him 2 more games than before - still no ring though.

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Reply #431 on: June 13, 2011, 01:18:14 PM

But it's not my definition that matters, it is his.  He keeps getting to a level where he seems to go "oh god i don't want to do this anymore" and checks out.

Armchair psychology?

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Paelos
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Reply #432 on: June 13, 2011, 01:24:37 PM

I listen to Cowherd in the mornings on my drive to work sometimes, and this guy while very sports savvy seems to have the same problem a lot of the "lebron lovers" have. They don't understand why people dont like him. They (Cowherd and others) always say "why do people hate Lebron for leaving Cleaveland" and to that I respond "We dont hate Lebron for leaving, we hate him for the way he left".

Also, I think Lebron is the greatest physical player in the NBA right now. As in pure physical talent. Its his mental game thats holding him back. I'm pretty happy Dallas won.

I think he gets it, but he thinks that's a ridiculous reason. He's stated as such. He compared it to "it's not what you said, it's how you said it" that you get from women sometimes. He's about perspective and results, which is a good thing for a national sports analyst. Local markets put very little emphasis on either. My only problem is that he's an obvious contrarian, even though he says he's not. He could never admit it, of course, but the secret to grabbing interest is to go against the grain in sports if you can back it up with fact.

I'm happy Dallas won because I grew up there. I'm by no means a fan and won't pretend that I jumped on the bandwagon. Still it's nice to finally have some remote connection with success for a guy like Jason Kidd that I can remember playing for the Mavs when I was still in grade school.

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Reply #433 on: June 13, 2011, 01:35:05 PM

with success for a guy like Jason Kidd that I can remember playing for the Mavs when I was still in grade school.
ACK!

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Reply #434 on: June 13, 2011, 01:44:03 PM

I think he gets it, but he thinks that's a ridiculous reason. He's stated as such. He compared it to "it's not what you said, it's how you said it" that you get from women sometimes. He's about perspective and results, which is a good thing for a national sports analyst. Local markets put very little emphasis on either. My only problem is that he's an obvious contrarian, even though he says he's not. He could never admit it, of course, but the secret to grabbing interest is to go against the grain in sports if you can back it up with fact.

I'm happy Dallas won because I grew up there. I'm by no means a fan and won't pretend that I jumped on the bandwagon. Still it's nice to finally have some remote connection with success for a guy like Jason Kidd that I can remember playing for the Mavs when I was still in grade school.

I like listening to Cowherd because he's an obvious contrarian."Golf is just Golf …and then when Tiger gets going, it’s like a sport!"

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Reply #435 on: June 13, 2011, 03:18:57 PM

He's stated as such. He compared it to "it's not what you said, it's how you said it" that you get from women sometimes.

Just to confirm, we're in agreement that this is bullshit - that the how can sometimes matter more than the what...right?

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Reply #436 on: June 13, 2011, 03:40:11 PM

I'm rather sad that the NBA final is already only discussed in terms of the Heat and especially LeBron losing instead of that the Mavericks won.

It's like the Mavericks only won because LeBron sucked, belittling an awesome achievement by a team in the process.
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Reply #437 on: June 13, 2011, 03:53:43 PM

It is depressing, isn't it. So can we say it now, Nowitzki is the best European player ever?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 03:56:42 PM by Azuredream »

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Reply #438 on: June 13, 2011, 03:55:35 PM

I thought that went without saying?

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Reply #439 on: June 13, 2011, 04:00:26 PM

Dominique Wilkins maybe, but I don't know if that one really counts since he grew up in America even though he was born in France.

edit; and you might have had some people championing Pau Gasol if you asked them before the playoffs this year.

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Reply #440 on: June 13, 2011, 04:11:41 PM




...OK not really.

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Paelos
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Reply #441 on: June 13, 2011, 04:17:08 PM

He's stated as such. He compared it to "it's not what you said, it's how you said it" that you get from women sometimes.

Just to confirm, we're in agreement that this is bullshit - that the how can sometimes matter more than the what...right?

It's not 100% no. Sometimes you can say something and be a complete dick about it when you just didn't have to. Most of the time though, it wouldn't matter how you said it if it's horrible news.

I personally don't think Cleveland would have been happy however he said it. I also don't think it would have been the national brand of hatred if he hadn't done it on TV like a dipshit.

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Reply #442 on: June 13, 2011, 04:19:44 PM

I wasn't aiming this at Dirk specifically.

It's just that it's somewhat insulting to what has clearly been an exceptional team effort all year. The Mavericks with Kidd, Michaels and Nowitzki basically achieved what people had hoped LeBron would do, win the championship in the right way. They emphasized what this game should be about - building a cohesive team, that uses the individual strengths  of each team member. Nowitzki wasn't that great in game 6 and his team mates picked up the slack turning what could have easily been a loss into a win, with a rather big lead at that.

Team spirit trumped ego and a team that that everybody before the finals thought would steamroll the Mavs.

Yet somehow this has already turned into a "If LeBron would have played better the Heat would have won" situation. I mean come on, we've had one player that had an injured hand and at one point  a fever and a cold (that could easily turn into cardiomyopathy or other serious health issues) and still gave all for his team and another player that choked because somehow the opposing players had the audacity to not roll over and die stunned by his legendary awesomeness and who even got upstaged by other players in his own team.

Hell Cuban was one of only two owners that voted against the move of the Sonics to Oklahoma which gives him an golden star in my book.

Ifs and buts don't win games and focusing so much about James gives off a vibe that Dallas somehow shouldn't have won if everything had went as it was supposed to be. Which is kind of insulting if you think about it.
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Reply #443 on: June 13, 2011, 04:24:33 PM

I thought that went without saying?

If you're just looking at NBA games, yeah, it's Dirk and then everyone else.  If you're looking at someone's full professional and international career when asking that, it's Dirk and Arvydas Sabonis and then everyone else.

Pau is a great player and could definitely make it a conversation as he's two years younger and his rate stats are in the same ballpark as Dirk's.

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Jeff Kelly
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Reply #444 on: June 13, 2011, 04:32:12 PM

Well to be fair as an European I'm always forgetting that switching teams is a lot less common in US sports than in other places. In international football it's rather common that players switch teams when contracts have expired. It's so common actually that no broadcast network would air a one hour special for any player even if hypothetically Pele, Beckenbauer or Ronaldo were the ones switching teams. Just look at how many teams a player like Beckham has played for during his career and if rumors are accurate he will add another station to that list when the Galaxy borrows him to Tottenham.

Yet for me it is one thing if you just leave and an entirely different thing to make a one hour national TV special out of your decision just so that you can publicly indulge in your own brand of narcissism and at the same time humiliate an entire city, region and fanbase.

It's the difference between telling your partner you're breaking up in private or telling him on Maury or Jerry Springer. You'll have hurt feelings either way but you'd have to be a major douchebag to add public humiliation before an entire nation to it.
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Reply #445 on: June 13, 2011, 05:31:08 PM

Interesting graphic which I think puts Dirk's greatness in perspective:

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Reply #446 on: June 14, 2011, 05:29:14 AM

That is fairly amazing.

What can't be taken away from Dallas is that they had a knack, through the whole post season, of withering their opponents away in the fourth quarter.  It didn't seem to matter that they were down by 10 to 15 points, they just seemed to keep coming back and winning anyway.  Lebron is a giant cock and I'm glad he lost, but Dallas earned that trophy, period.

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Reply #447 on: June 17, 2011, 04:18:45 AM

Stay soft Dirk Nowitzki

Pretty good article about the media's perception on Dirk and his softness, and how the basketball media has always wanted players to be "tough".
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Reply #448 on: June 17, 2011, 10:42:40 AM

Yeah, as much as i hate the Heat i think it is pretty ridiculous how much uhh... heat? Bosh gets for showing any emotion.  Grief, lets go with grief yeah.

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Reply #449 on: June 22, 2011, 01:57:18 PM

This should be an interesting draft, though not because of the draftees in particular.  The prospects other than the top five are pretty dismal.  This could turn out to be a 2000 type draft where the best player was Michael Redd, a second rounder.  What should be interesting is the trade talk.  They're already talking about dealing Tony Parker and I know that some other big names are liable to get thrown around.  I plan on watching this one for sure.  . 
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