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Author Topic: Walking Dead  (Read 555219 times)
Tebonas
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Reply #2205 on: September 06, 2016, 04:57:04 AM

Nah, that show is "Veronica Mars as a Zombie" and is actually good.

Nothing against Daramont, but I doubt he can be as funny and clever as Rob Thomas.
Ard
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Reply #2206 on: September 06, 2016, 09:50:40 AM

Which was also based on it's own comic book series.
eldaec
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Reply #2207 on: September 26, 2016, 09:02:30 AM

I finally got to the end of s6, after having been about 18 months behind, usually I couldn't watch more than a few episodes without remembering how awful the writing could be and putting it on hiatus for months.

But watched from arrival at Alexandria to the end in a couple of weeks. Then the last episode reminded me why I found the show before Alexandria so fucking annoying.

In general though, s6 I enjoyed far more than anything before it.


But damn that last episode was bad.

That is such a textbook example of how not to do a cliffhanger.



Exactly. I mean, why bother letting Hilltop survive when you quite obviously can just kill their defenders, take the survivors as slaves and set up an outpost there? It's sort of the same setup as they had, except the Saviors leave no oversight there (a few guys with guns as foremen/overseers) to prove the Hilltop residents are holding up their end of the bargain or not plotting to fight back. It's a completely idiotic set up. Woodbury made more sense.

I was ok with all the saviour stuff on the same basis as any protection racket.

Sure they *could* take it over, but they they'd have to manage it, organise rubbish collection, make trains run on time. To do that they'd have to take time out from shooting arrows through people's eyes and hitting people with baseball bats.

The only thing that crunched gears for me was Hilltop managing to run out of bullets. Seriously, this show needs to never draw attention to the logistics of ammunition or gasoline. 'Saviours took our guns' would have been fine.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 10:20:59 AM by eldaec »

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apocrypha
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Reply #2208 on: October 19, 2016, 10:45:18 PM

Season by season recap of TWD with John Cleese.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Surlyboi
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Reply #2209 on: October 23, 2016, 07:25:46 PM

Well, shit.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Mithas
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Reply #2210 on: October 23, 2016, 07:28:45 PM

Yeah. I've been trying to figure out why I don't like the whole Negan thing and I can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's because they left the huge cliffhanger?
Threash
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Reply #2211 on: October 23, 2016, 07:32:54 PM

Because he's a one note bad guy.  It's like making Joffrey the big bad in GoT.

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Setanta
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Reply #2212 on: October 24, 2016, 03:17:38 AM

Was that it? Was that the build up all last season? Because if so then it was pretty damn pathetic. They could have done half of it for the finale and given us something better to kickstart this season.

The comic book did the whole thing a lot better ... and that's not saying much. At least the writing was better.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Slayerik
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Reply #2213 on: October 24, 2016, 04:44:40 AM

This was so bad. I can't take this dude monologuing any more. And to cliff hanger the cliff hanger of the last 6 months.....I think I'm done.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
MediumHigh
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Reply #2214 on: October 24, 2016, 06:05:01 AM

Yes, yes let the hate flow through you.
satael
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Reply #2215 on: October 24, 2016, 07:01:28 AM

I have to say that I'm a far bigger fan of Z Nation than the Walking Dead when it comes to zombie tv-serieses (and comparing the latest episodes of both just makes it more clearer than ever)
Threash
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Reply #2216 on: October 24, 2016, 07:21:14 AM

Couldn't get very far with Z-nation but iZombie definitely beats walking dead.

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apocrypha
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Reply #2217 on: October 24, 2016, 08:44:06 AM

This was so bad. I can't take this dude monologuing any more. And to cliff hanger the cliff hanger of the last 6 months.....I think I'm done.

Haven't watched it yet, but are you telling me that they didn't actually resolve the "who got batted" question?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Slayerik
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Reply #2218 on: October 24, 2016, 08:46:58 AM

No, it's resolved...they just had to cliff hanger it through the first half hour some more.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
apocrypha
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Reply #2219 on: October 24, 2016, 08:48:39 AM

Oh OK. Sounds tedious.   Ohhhhh, I see.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
HaemishM
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Reply #2220 on: October 24, 2016, 10:11:02 AM

I didn't watch it, I'm sticking to my vow. I did read the recap and holy shit, that sounds infinitely worse than the scene in the comics. And the scene in the comics was one of the worst written pieces of shit I've ever had the misfortune to read. Just thinking about that comic scene in the shower this morning actually made me angry.

In short, I told you motherfuckers. Ditch this piece of shit now. You'll thank me. The comic is like 60 issues ahead of where the TV show is now and Negan IS STILL THERE. Meaning, get used to one-note bad guy doing a soliloquy every goddamn time he kills someone.

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Reply #2221 on: October 24, 2016, 11:13:52 AM

I kind of lost interest last season and didn't watch the last half. Read the synopsis because apparently everyone still loves this show.  

Uhh, yah. No thanks. Let me know if this gets good outside of just shocking people with over the top brutality.

-Rasix
Threash
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Reply #2222 on: October 24, 2016, 12:01:27 PM

I thought the over the top brutality was absolutely necessary.  The whole point was that Rick and his group thought Negan was just run of the mill bad guy like the guys from Terminus or the Governor, they were extremely overconfident about the whole thing because they've dealt with the same shit over and over again.  That brutality was what was needed to break them, and they had to be broken or the story would just be a repeat of the past few seasons.

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Setanta
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Reply #2223 on: October 24, 2016, 12:39:22 PM

Except everyone knows that as the protagonists, they can't be broken.

Comic book did it with one badly written death. This was just mediocrity at its best.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
HaemishM
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Reply #2224 on: October 24, 2016, 12:59:05 PM

I'm still struggling to figure out WHY I hate that scene so much (besides just being fucking horrible writing). It's not just like I really liked the character of Glenn - matter of fact, I loved the TV Glenn but thought the comic Glenn was a really flat, uninteresting character who only seemed to exist to be a counterpoint to whatever the dilemma was at the time. And it isn't like I'm squeamish, or don't enjoy some mindless brutality. It may just be that it seemed so goddamn unnecessary to be that brutal, that almost exploitative - like it was trying to manipulate my emotions so I hated Negan when I really didn't need the manipulation. I was already on the side of the main characters, I was cool with them chopping up the Terminus cannibals and killing the Governor. It's not like I was going to be sympathetic to Negan. So why go so brutal? To show how much more powerful he was? Just showing the sheer numbers of whatever his group is called was enough to do that.

You don't kill main characters without a reason, or just to demonstrate brutality. It needs to be done with a purpose that makes sense and doesn't make the viewer/reader feel like you are just looking for an opening to punch them in the nuts.

jgsugden
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Reply #2225 on: October 24, 2016, 10:59:53 PM

Here it is done over and over to maintain the belief that any character can die at any time. It is a more extreme version of Eddard, Rob and Catelyn Stark. The book, and show, are far from the best written entertainment ever, but you seriously never know who will die, when it will happen and why. And before you say you know that Rick won't die, let me ask you a question colon if Andrew Lincoln decided to quit the show, do you think they would cancel it? Or do you think the show might evolve to be around a different character? I could see them killing Rick on TV. Heck, it wouldn't shock me if they killed Rick in the comics either. I don't consider it likely, but I think it's something that Kirkman has probably considered at times to prove that any character can die.

As for the stupid level of violence and gore: this is a zombie show. That is entirely expected. Complaining about gore in a zombie show is like complaining about tits in porn.


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eldaec
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Reply #2226 on: October 25, 2016, 12:24:56 AM

For me, the first problem is thematic. The last season had a relatively interesting question about at what point Rick becomes Shane, and how rick responds to challenge from the more peaceful end of opinion. This doesn't feel like consequences of those decisions or an outcome of those questions. It feels like "oh we've done that now here is the Governor again".

The other problem is the cliffhanger. There are two rules of a cliffhanger, firstly it should set up fhe next story not resolve the previous one, second the payoff has to be interesting enough to justify having the audience think about it until it is resolved. Clearly, this is neither.

And this is nothing like a Stark death.

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Setanta
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Reply #2227 on: October 25, 2016, 12:31:53 AM

It is a more extreme version of Eddard, Rob and Catelyn Stark. The book, and show, are far from the best written entertainment ever, but you seriously never know who will die, when it will happen and why.

I'm not buying that - it was pretty well established in seasons 1-6. This is just cock-slapping the audience in the hope they gobble it down. GoT do it well, with backstory and depth. This was amateur week. Yes GoT loses major players, but if TWD wants to play that game then Rick, Carl or Darryl should have gone out. TWD wants to be GoT edgy but it has no idea how to do it. As for the violence, I doubt they were using that to shock the audience because the show has demonstrated worse, it's more because it was the setup for the mini-cliffhanger... which was a fail because after the first, the impact was lost when the second went out.

The only time the episode succeeded was the constant motif of the axe... I really thought they'd go back and do what the comics did with the Governor and amputation... THAT was better written than anything else in the script.

Having said that, I like that the title was a throwback to the line from the scientist in the CDC.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Threash
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Reply #2228 on: October 25, 2016, 07:45:41 AM

It feels like "oh we've done that now here is the Governor again".


But it's the opposite of that.  That was exactly what Rick thought and why he was so overconfident last season.  That's the part that bothers me actually, Rick and his group managed to take out at least 50 or more of Negan's goons.  Unless his army is in the thousands, his actual army not the people he has oppressed, those are some massive losses that should have made them wipe out Rick's group completely.  That's not a "kill two of you to teach you a lesson and leave the rest of you alive as slaves" situation, those fuckers have shown they are way more dangerous than your standard group.

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Slayerik
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Reply #2229 on: October 25, 2016, 08:21:36 AM

Not that I'm disagreeing with you (I think you are totally right that realistically Rick's group should have been decimated, also keeping the women around for pleasure pieces - cause let's face it...it would happen), but I guess Negan has done this to enough groups he knows he will always be a target, he just doesn't give a fuck cause...Oh you want some more?

Once you establish that you have vast numbers combined with brutality and power....the illusion of it would work almost as well (and less mouths to feed)




"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
HaemishM
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Reply #2230 on: October 25, 2016, 08:26:16 AM

Here it is done over and over to maintain the belief that any character can die at any time.

Problem is, we already KNEW that from six goddamn seasons worth of characters dying. TDog. Hershel. Beth. Just those three characters alone were pretty prominent important characters with larger arcs, and we saw them die. Viewers of the show and readers of the comic know full and goddamn well any character can die any time. So to kill two very well-liked characters and to basically kill them "like punk bitches" in an over-the-top sadistic way - it's horribly lazy, uninteresting writing. It tells me the creator doesn't know where to go from here or how to bring any sort of meaningful resolution to the world's story (because it will end eventually). That Negan is also an incredibly boring character with patently Tarantino-ed "I'm so clever, look at me, Mr. Clever Clogs" dialogue makes it even worse.

Threash
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Reply #2231 on: October 25, 2016, 08:50:37 AM

TDog? that guy barely had any lines in the entire time he was around, he was only "prominent" because he happened to be around from the start.  As soon as they hired another black actor he was a goner.

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HaemishM
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Reply #2232 on: October 25, 2016, 08:52:20 AM

TDog was there from the beginning. So was Shane, so was Lori. All characters that were pretty prominent at one time or another that got killed. Just because the writers forgot TDog existed in season 2 doesn't mean he didn't have a prominent enough part to make people realize "anyone can die."

apocrypha
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Reply #2233 on: October 25, 2016, 12:55:59 PM

Watched the episode. Nothing new to add really, found it very uninteresting, probably not going to bother with the rest of the season. If they've got nothing new to tell in the way of story, just a repeat of previous ones, then what's the point?

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
HaemishM
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Reply #2234 on: October 25, 2016, 01:03:49 PM


apocrypha
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Reply #2235 on: October 25, 2016, 01:33:20 PM

I miss Eastbound & Down. That was entertaining!

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
jgsugden
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Reply #2236 on: October 25, 2016, 03:21:45 PM

Hey, if you're out, you're out.  Not everything is everyone's cup of tea.  I see a different plan in their execution and it doesn't bother me.  I liked the premiere.  I know where the core of the story goes and I'm interested to see it play out with these actors.

Besides: They did the horrible violence thing for 6 seasons.  That means it is a part of the show.  It is a core element.  It is there for the purposes discussed above - to establish AND MAINTAIN that any character can go at any time.  But if you object to bloody gore in a show where people are eaten alive, where we've seen people torn apart... I just don't get it. 


2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
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Reply #2237 on: October 25, 2016, 03:33:32 PM

Just waiting for this fall out for disney star wars films.
apocrypha
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Reply #2238 on: October 25, 2016, 11:05:14 PM

I don't have a problem with the violence, as you say that's not new. I just didn't find most of last season, nor this 1st episode, interesting. I'll wait until the season wraps up and gauge reactions from here etc. before deciding if it's worth the time or not.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
HaemishM
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Reply #2239 on: October 26, 2016, 07:49:32 AM

Besides: They did the horrible violence thing for 6 seasons.  That means it is a part of the show.  It is a core element.  It is there for the purposes discussed above - to establish AND MAINTAIN that any character can go at any time.  But if you object to bloody gore in a show where people are eaten alive, where we've seen people torn apart... I just don't get it. 

No one is objecting to bloody gore in a fucking zombie show, you clueless munch. Stop being a willful fucking idiot and try reading what is written for a fucking change of pace.

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