So how is the PvP and are there any future changes coming?

[Sjofn]

Well, for some, the act of actually tanking. 

[WindupAtheist]

I dunno what this prot warrior in PVP bullshit is. Whenever a bunch of people are fighting over a flag in AB or something and I see one, I just make them the lowest priority target. Have fun wailing on my plate armor and sacred shield with your one-hander, champ, we'll just pile four guys onto you after we've finished killing your friends.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm not sure I know what any of you are going on about. I had one, single talent point more in protection. Now I have mostly arms (Due to suggestions), so uh, ok.
Besides, if one whole tree of talents is useless, they may want to look into that. There is no plate armor and "sacred shield" at my current level BTW, is PvP really that messed up that any mention of PvP implys "at 80" and nothing else?  

[WindupAtheist]

No, the plate and sacred shield are what I have, since I play a paladin.

What you need to do is go to a site like Elitist Jerks or something, and look up an optimized build. None of this "Hey I've been forgetting to spend my talent points lately, derpy derp guess I'll dump them into X!" business. Then make sure you're using your mouse to manuver and keybinds to attack. Suddenly you too will be able to make 180 turns on a dime.

For real, they're not pushing W and S to run through you. Anyone using their keyboard to manuver in PVP is just a big target with a fixed and very slow turning rate, doomed to wonder why everyone is able to magically stick to their back.

[Zetor]

Well, you had a sword and board out, that usually implies playing like a prot warrior (arms warriors like 2-handers, fury warriors like dual wield). And uh, people are saying 'pvp at 80' because everyone's been 80 forever unless they're leveling their n-th alt. No idea what you mean by pvp being 'messed up' either.

Anyway, prot warriors aren't all that bad, and they can be downright nasty with an MS class (preferably hunter). They are also good at killing indirectly, ie. preventing a healer from getting any casts off while your teammates pound the flagcarrier into pulp.

edit2: most of the stuff below pertains to high-level prot warriors, I have nfi how lower levels work... mostly because by the time the talents were available, my warrior was already 70. :p
You can open on a healer with concussion blow (5sec stun), interrupt their next cast with shield bash (6-sec lockout, or 2-sec silence if they only use instants), use shockwave for an aoe stun (2 seconds on the healer due to DR, but you'd ideally catch a few others in the cone as well) after the lockout or silence is up, strafe away and charge just when the stun's about to end since it's not on any DR and gets you rage, use heroic throw for an extra silence at range or even in melee if necessary, and cycle through your stuns again. All this time your friends are wailing on the kill target who's getting no heals. Have spell reflect up between stuns so they can't NS+cyclone/hex or hammer of justice you without screwing themselves.

If they trinket a stun at any point, intimidating shout them for an 8-second 'stun'. Weave in charge stuns whenever charge is up for an extra 2 seconds of non-diminishing return stunnage. If they make the mistake of trying to cast a spell with a cast time, shield bash will lock them out long enough that you can actually get a kill unless they're a holy paladin.

Caveat: 'effective' prot pvp needs really good gear to pull off, but even my blue-geared 3rd string prot warrior alt has won the day quite a few times in BGs.


edit: def. agree with WUA and others: if you aren't using your mouse to turn and keybinds to attack, you're at a severe disadvantage in pvp... in any mmog really, but especially in wow.

[Nebu]

edit: def. agree with WUA and others: if you aren't using your mouse to turn and keybinds to attack, you're at a severe disadvantage in pvp... in any mmog really, but especially in wow.

Solid suggestion.  Once I was able to jump, turn 180 and fire, turn back and run on my hunter, kills came much faster and easier.  Master mouse movement, strafing, and jump turns.  It will change your performance in pvp pretty significantly. 

I also notice that most players don't pan when they move.  I love taking advantage of this as well. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I am using my mouse and keyboard keys, unless you are saying that I can go backwards and strafe with just the mouse, please do tell. I sat there and watched many many opponents simply dance forward and back, perhaps its the standard way to avoid a melee? Doesn't stop people from passing through. I don't really care that much to go for "optimized" builds, I use builds that fit my playstyle, its why I usually do not like trees. There are somethings about this "PvP" that I just simply dislike (Pass through, LOS namely). Doesn't mean I won't play some to break up my other activities. I was simply asking for advice to at least not just be fodder or kills food.

You bring up the stick to your back, is there some sort of "Stick to target" command?

Here is my updated load out: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Venture+Co&cn=Grimst

I was about to use my fancy two hand last night, but noticed it has slipped behind and I need a new one.

Your fights should be charge, hamstring, rend, OP (usually over at this point)

This helped a good deal. I also have some pots on my G-keys that helps too, as it seems no one heals in PvP or something.  I do realize a lot of my issues are me fumbling with with keys or not knowing the tells of opponents, something ill improve with as I do more.

EDIT: hum, two hand is an intriguing proposition.

[Zetor]

Three things are usually considered to be a huge handicap in pvp (any diku pvp really, not just wow):
- keyboard turning: A and D are set to 'turn left/right' by default (again, this is not a wow thing... I've seen the same default binds in coh and lotro at least), so new players use it. Keyboard turning is slooooooooow and allows anyone to circle-strafe or run through you. If you're a caster, this means you won't be able to get any spells off at them; if you're melee, you're exposing your back all the time. Huge disadvantage.
- clicking: Clicking your abilities in pvp combat is a *huge* no-no. Not only is it much slower than hitting a hotkey (especially if you need to react to something quickly), it forces you to take your mouse off turning, so all you can do is move/strafe and can't turn. Bind every ability you use in pvp to easily accessible hotkeys; don't need to bind long-cooldown out of combat abilities and other fluff.
- backpedaling: Arguably a smaller problem, but backpedaling (going backwards with 'S') is much slower than turning and running.

Alternatives to the 3 problems:
- You should be using WASD (or ESDF) like an FPS, ie. strafe with keys and turn by holding down the right mouse button. You're probably doing this already.
- Like Nebu said above: for instant turns and looking around you without turning (good if you're running / kiting, or just situational awareness), turn your camera by holding down the left mouse button and swing it behind you. This way you can do an instant 180' by depressing the left mouse button and hitting the right mouse button (which turns you in the direction the camera is facing immediately). Zoom your camera out as much as possible.
- If you're kiting, don't walk backwards with S; you need to side-step at full speed while occasionally turning towards the enemy or doing jump-shots (jump, turn towards enemy, cast in midair, turn back before you hit the ground). 'Elite pvpers' like to unbind S or bind some other ability there, but they're also wrong because backpedaling is useful for pve tanking (you want to keep the mobs ahead of you and running speed is not an issue).

fake edit: WAR had autoface and autostick and it was really annoying to play for me, the entire combat felt mushy (and I played an ironbreaker, so I was the one doing the bodyblocking in the first place!). Guild wars has auto-run-to-target, but I didn't mind it there for some reason.

Regarding los: most los items should actually work normally... really, the only exception I can think of are the tree stumps in WSG midfield (which is annoying as hell, I'll agree).

[Shrike]

Once you get your KG and mouse movement down, you'll be shocked at how many actually don't. Pleasently shocked.

Friend of mine was totally opposed to PvP in this game until I hassled him enough to set up his blood DK for the 79 bracket. We got him a Steelseries KB with the left hand pad and a good laser mouse and suddently it's a new game for him. Now he sees why clicking and KB turning is such a disadvantage. Now he rapes faces in the BGs and is pretty bully on PvP (well, at least bracket PvP). Actualy, I"ve been seriously considering picking up a Logitech G13 just for the extra keys on my left hand and the hatswitch as an alternative to the ASDX movement keys that I use (yeah, I use X to backpedal).

As for your troll warrior: seriously, get a BoA reaper and the plate pieces, then rock the arms tree. You'll be really surprised what a difference this can make. When my draenei warrior was in the 29 bracket she had over 2k hps and literally one/two shotted about everything she ran into. Fun doesn't even begin to describe it. The best feeling was seeing hordies actualy run from you when they saw you coming (ah, god, not her again...). Good times.

Keyboard: http://www.steelseries.com/us/products/keyboards/merc_stealth/information

G13...thingum: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/5123

Mouse: forget the Copperhead; check below.

[Mrbloodworth]

Can you link me those items you are talking about?

[Shrike]

Actually, if I were doing it today I'd go with a different mouse. The Copperhead is more than a few years old, but it's a good one. I have two laying about and they show no signs of wearing out, so I still run them.

This: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153054 tempts me greatly.

This one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826105093 I've heard really good things about and I've seen it for around $40. Might be my next mouse, though my Copperheads just keep soldiering on...

[Mrbloodworth]

lol, I was talking about the in game gear you mentioned. 

[WoopeeTuralyon]

Lol, enemies who ran from me when they saw me made me play a rogue so they couldn't even see me coming to flee! 

[Ingmar]

Can you link me those items you are talking about?

You can't get them, he's talking about the heirloom plate pieces but you'd need an existing 80 on your account to get them.

[Shrike]

lol, I was talking about the in game gear you mentioned. 

Hah. Well, lemmee see if I can find my armory...

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&cn=Flounce

There's the shoulders I run and the 'reaper. I don't use the BP for PvP anymore, but it's still in her inventory for leveling. I also have the PvP shoulders...hmmm...ah, here:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Whisperwind&cn=Theodora

[Shrike]

Can you link me those items you are talking about?

You can't get them, he's talking about the heirloom plate pieces but you'd need an existing 80 on your account to get them.

Yeah, no level 80 is going to be a bit of a problem.

Best solutions: get green stuff "of the beast/soldier". Best bets, especially on TBC itemized "soldier" stuff. Secondly, lock xp for LFD and run dungeons until your eyes bleed. The bag rewards can be quite good, though they're a crapshoot on what you get. Still, it's blue gear and in the 29/39/49 brackets it'd be great. Weapons are going to be an issue. Just run LFD for a dungeon where some good 2h drops. I'm thinking the axe from RFK would be good at 29, the others...Scarlet Monastary quest reward axe at 39, 49 not so sure, but probably something from Uldaman.

Or you can just gut it out to 80 on this character as best you can, get your BoA stuff and twink a pally coming up through the BGs for grins.

[Mrbloodworth]

Oh, I don't have an 80, but I do have other higher toons. Mostly casters and ranged, hence most of my system shock.

[Morfiend]

Actually, if I were doing it today I'd go with a different mouse. The Copperhead is more than a few years old, but it's a good one. I have two laying about and they show no signs of wearing out, so I still run them.

This: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153054 tempts me greatly.

This one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826105093 I've heard really good things about and I've seen it for around $40. Might be my next mouse, though my Copperheads just keep soldiering on...

The R.A.T. 9 is getting really good previews. It looks odd as fuck, but supposed to work great.

http://cyborggaming.com/prod/rat9.htm

[ezrast]

While looking at the approximately elventy trillion knobs and buttons on that Inspector Gadget monstrosity, I totally misread "INTERNET FWD" as "INTERNET FLUID" and spent a good ten seconds trying to figure out what the hell internet fluid is and why I would want it in my mouse.

Next time somebody asks my what's wrong with their computer, I'm going to tell them their mouse is low on internet fluid. I don't care if the problem is that their printer won't install - they need more internet fluid.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

Internet fluid! Finally, the mystery as to why my left clicker no longer works is unraveled!

[Mrbloodworth]

While looking at the approximately elventy trillion knobs and buttons on that Inspector Gadget monstrosity, I totally misread "INTERNET FWD" as "INTERNET FLUID" and spent a good ten seconds trying to figure out what the hell internet fluid is and why I would want it in my mouse.

"Well you see, the internet is made of a series of tubes and....."

[Paelos]

It's all done with ball bearings these days.

[Merusk]

One word.  Plastics.