So how is the PvP and are there any future changes coming?

[Fordel]

You'll be able to get weapons in Cata again at least. They'll probably be one tier behind the 'max' still, but that's manageable. My current weapon is like, what 6 tiers behind now? 


Might even have access to the best tier of weapon again with rated BGs, but I'm not holding my breath on that either.

[DevilsAdvocate25]

Not interested in Arenas, been there did that.  I just want to pvp for fun when I have time so Ill be sticking to stritcly BG's.  My 2 level 70's are a druid and rogue so if I level one of them to 80 which is the best choice for pvp?  I was also debating leveling my 35 mage possibly for the same purpose. 

Go with the druid. You can play the stealth gank game if thats what you want, but will have the option to tree tank or play pocket healer. I have even heard that moonkin doesn't do too poorly either. One of the greatest advantages of 4 of the classes in WoW in pvp is healing. DPS only classes have to either cc you or outdps your heals. Meanwhile, you are dropping damage on them and keeping yourself up. In BG's, this usually means you will live longer than anyone else because if they attack your heal target, they can't kill him. If they attack you, and you heal yourself, your heal target should be killing them. Caveat: every class can be beaten by every class, but healers are more capable of survival and druid and pally in particular have been made viable in nearly every spec.

[Sheepherder]

No, I totally agree. The pvp game is good for a distraction, but not as a real end-game focus. I just think if people go whole-hog and talk about pvp as a fully tacked on afterthought in WoW, it would lessen some of the crazy you get from people that scream for balance.

I honestly think that making pvp specific sets was a bad decision, with the caveat that instagibs sucked.

[Fordel]

Blizzard still has a hard on for trying to equate a PvE item progression to PvP, I blame The Evil Kalgan myself.

[Musashi]

I don't think any of those head guys have too much experience with PvP MMOs.  They've played them, of course.  But they're all EQ guys.  As such, WoW is a PvE game. 

The PvP doesn't suck.  Also, I'm pretty comfortable saying that I think they've worked hard enough on PvP so that the 'It's tacked on' moniker is at this point pretty inapplicable.  The e-sport deal just never really appealed to that many people.  But, as always, there are those who enjoy it. 

I think they've gone in a wrong direction for far too long to make the kind of changes that would make it more universally appealing (or at least less frustrating).  It is what it was, and it will continue to be so.  Personally, I've never enjoyed it.  But for what it's worth, I like more guild v guild kind of stuff.  I had more fun fighting dudes before raids in BRM in Vanilla than I ever did in Battlegrounds or Arenas.  And those days are never coming back.

[brellium]

I loved my feral druid during the sunwell lead up with all the dailies on the pvp+ server I played on.

It was singularly the most fun I ever had in wow.

Most of the time I just waited around for some arrogant rogue to pop out and *rawr* *pounce* *ravage* *farie fire* *ravage* *ravage* *finishing move*.

The best part was that I could end up with half the island chasing me (usually after killing someone in a group of people).  Having five people in the water looking for you while sitting on the shore looking at them is classic.

[Fordel]

Like, it's been 5 years and they still haven't managed to create a piece of architecture with PvP in mind. The nearest they've gotten to proper PvP buildings is in Wintergrasp, but even then, it was theory-craft architecture, not practical player vs player violence tested.

[Sheepherder]

Blizzard still has a hard on for trying to equate a PvE item progression to PvP, I blame The Evil Kalgan myself.

Separate but equal is ostensibly what they aim for.  Which would be cool if your design intention was that raiders not PvP and PvP'ers not raid.  You can grind your way past that barrier, but it fucking sucks if all you want to do is try something different without being totally outclassed by everyone around you.

[Shrike]

But for what it's worth, I like more guild v guild kind of stuff.  I had more fun fighting dudes before raids in BRM in Vanilla than I ever did in Battlegrounds or Arenas.  And those days are never coming back.

When the new Onyxia encounter was still, well, new, our guild got into it with a couple of horde guilds periodically when waiting for the raid to form at the summoning stone. It invariably started the same way. Someone would be flagged, someone couldn't resist, and a complete riot resulted (and the raid was an hour late...or more). It was kinda fun--except I had to play my shaman and not my DK.

[Musashi]

On a PvP server that was every Ony run.  I made my guild stop before we got into clip range, and scouted to increase our chances of ambush.  It is pretty frustrating on nights when you'd rather just zone in.  But looking back, I don't remember the raid.  I do remember the fight.

[Setanta]

Southshore vs Tarren Mill on Blackrock PvP server. Now THAT was PvP

That and ambushing other guilds at MC and BWL was fun

[Nebu]

Southshore vs Tarren Mill on Blackrock PvP server. Now THAT was PvP

Ill conceived pvp.  Alliance heads there in their 30's and Horde heads to the Mill in their low 20's.  Not sure what Blizzard was thinking, but it certainly wasn't about pvp. 

[Ingmar]

Southshore vs Tarren Mill on Blackrock PvP server. Now THAT was PvP

Ill conceived pvp.  Alliance heads there in their 30's and Horde heads to the Mill in their low 20's.  Not sure what Blizzard was thinking, but it certainly wasn't about pvp. 

We as players picked that as our random pvp zerg area of choice even on PVE servers. I don't think it was really planned that way by Blizzard at all, and levels didn't really enter into it - it was mostly huge packs of level 60s chasing each other back and forth between the two towns.

Hillsbrad just happened to be the most convenient zone where both sides had flight points and a short trip to get there. (Horde has an easier time getting to Undercity than Alliance does to Darnassus, otherwise I bet you'd have seen Ashenvale as the zerg PVP zone instead.)

[Nebu]

I think I'm just pissy about it because it's a hell hole for leveling on PvP servers.  Level 80's run around that area making life hell for people trying to run quests.  The pve leveling grind gets old after the first couple of trips through it that I got easily annoyed by delays when working through it a third and fourth time. 

[Merusk]

I still wonder why you subject yourself to PvP servers.  The only worthwhile pvp happens in Wintergrasp or Battlegrounds, 'world' pvp died as soon as characters were able to two-shot level 50 characters.

[ezrast]

worthwhile pvp happens in Wintergrasp

[Nebu]

I still wonder why you subject yourself to PvP servers.  The only worthwhile pvp happens in Wintergrasp or Battlegrounds, 'world' pvp died as soon as characters were able to two-shot level 50 characters.

It was the only way to play with people I've gamed with in the past.  Believe me when I say that it wasn't my choice. 

[Sheepherder]

I still wonder why you subject yourself to PvP servers.

[WindupAtheist]

...and?

[Ironwood]

No and then.

[Merusk]

worthwhile pvp happens in Wintergrasp

More an indictment of the state of world pvp in wow than an endorsement of Wintergrasp.  Plus, I didn't mean the every-two-hour battle.

[Shrike]

Heh, you know you've been playing this game too long when you get the urge to mouse-over screenshots to see what the other--especially flagged--players look like.

[Sheepherder]

...and?

I prefer highly stylized forms of griefing.

That paladin didn't have a clue as to what the hell was happening.  He didn't bubble hearth or run to the guards, he just stood there trying to trade blows with my succubus after it dropped out of invisibility and started beating his ass down.

My latest escapade on my T9 mage had me popping Icy Veins, Arcane Power, and Trinkets, after which I pelted the level 50 with rank 1 Frostbolts for about twenty seconds, sheeped him, hit slowfall and jumped off a cliff, and hit Invisibility on the way down.

[Musashi]

I had a mage in my guild in vanilla who could beat my warrior with level 1 frostbolts.  I'm man enough to admit it.  I only ever beat him once, and I kind of think he just felt sorry for me and let me have it.  The only thing I can offer up in my defense is that he was just that good.

[SurfD]

I had a mage in my guild in vanilla who could beat my warrior with level 1 frostbolts.  I'm man enough to admit it.  I only ever beat him once, and I kind of think he just felt sorry for me and let me have it.  The only thing I can offer up in my defense is that he was just that good.

In vanilla, that wasnt really skill.  That was a class perk.  Warrior vs Mage?  Yeah, you were fucked if he got the drop on you.  As a mage, you could kite warriors forever with 1 spell, and unless you fucked up something major, they would never touch you.

[Musashi]

I could almost always get in a couple shots on a Mage with a PvP trinket - more than a couple if they fucked up.  And we like, had stuff.  So a couple of shots was all she wrote.  Basically he saved his PoM for sheep when I used my trinket out of his Nova.  Other than that, yea, he just never fucked up.  I knew I didn't have good odds vs Mages.  But thanks for trying to appease my still bruised ego.

[Shrike]

Never faced them much in vanilla on my warrior. What little PvP I did back then was with the guild and generally involved horde screwing around with us when we were doing guild stuff on the lords out in Silithus (didn't tend to end well for the hordies).

What I do recall--and remains true to this day--is free action potion > magelings. And it's so, so, soooooo sweet when their friggin'  frost nova/shield/whatthehellever doesn't save them from that juggernaut/MS crit that drops their sorry, silk-drawer wearing ass where they stand.

[Sheepherder]

I had a mage in my guild in vanilla who could beat my warrior with level 1 frostbolts.

They changed how the spellpower coefficient scales with level.  A rank 1 Frostbolt used to gain the same amount of damage from spell power as the last rank, now it gains almost nothing and thus hits for like 100 damage.

[Malakili]

I had a mage in my guild in vanilla who could beat my warrior with level 1 frostbolts.

They changed how the spellpower coefficient scales with level.  A rank 1 Frostbolt used to gain the same amount of damage from spell power as the last rank, now it gains almost nothing and thus hits for like 100 damage.

RIP downranking, you're missed.  Oh the days of spamming rank 4 healing touch!

[Righ]

The only worthwhile pvp happens in Wintergrasp or Battlegrounds, 'world' pvp died as soon as characters were able to two-shot level 50 characters.

Speaking as somebody playing a freshly solo levelled 80 with a 3k gear score, I can assure you that two-shotting is alive and well in Wintergrasp and that's between level 80s.

[koro]

RIP downranking, you're missed.

No you're not.

[Crumbs]

Only thing I really enjoyed lately was Wintergrasp because it incorporates a lot of elements you'll see scattered all over different battlegrounds.  Wintergrasp, when it's not lagging to hell, is quite enjoyable.    

I'll agree with this and add:  when the numbers aren't horribly imbalanced.  15 stacks of tenacity can be fun if you catch a group of 5 people or less, but generally it just serves to add an extra .02 seconds to your life as you are mobbed by 80 people.

Upcoming change, from what I've heard, is that there will be a 1 to 1 H/A ratio cap.  If so, WG will go back to being fun.

[SurfD]

Only thing I really enjoyed lately was Wintergrasp because it incorporates a lot of elements you'll see scattered all over different battlegrounds.  Wintergrasp, when it's not lagging to hell, is quite enjoyable.    

I'll agree with this and add:  when the numbers aren't horribly imbalanced.  15 stacks of tenacity can be fun if you catch a group of 5 people or less, but generally it just serves to add an extra .02 seconds to your life as you are mobbed by 80 people.

Upcoming change, from what I've heard, is that there will be a 1 to 1 H/A ratio cap.  If so, WG will go back to being fun.

I thought that they were going with a minimum number to start a game, but would prevent it from going over a certain ratio.

Something along the lines of: you need at least 20 people on one side to start a game, with a minimum of 10 on the other side.  So if 40 horde and 10 alliance queue, the game will start as a 20 vs 10, but no more horde will be allowed to join untill the numbers balance themselves out more evenly (to prevent 100 vs 20 matches kind of thing)

[Dren]

If they limit Wintergrasp battles by numbers on teams, they better take the timer off then.  I'm already having a hard time timing my playtime right to get in on at least one battle a session.  It will be nearly impossible to predict the battles if the matches only happen when the numbers add up right along with a 2 hour break between them.

I'd love to see them just start the battles everytime there are enough players willing to get it going.  Once a battle ends with a decision, the queue opens up and starts racking people up on both sides.  Once the requirements are met, the battle timer starts again...game on. 

[Ingmar]

If they limit Wintergrasp battles by numbers on teams, they better take the timer off then.  I'm already having a hard time timing my playtime right to get in on at least one battle a session.  It will be nearly impossible to predict the battles if the matches only happen when the numbers add up right along with a 2 hour break between them.

I'd love to see them just start the battles everytime there are enough players willing to get it going.  Once a battle ends with a decision, the queue opens up and starts racking people up on both sides.  Once the requirements are met, the battle timer starts again...game on. 

There will probably always be enough people for the battles to happen. A far more likely scenario, if you're on the overpopulated side of a server, is that the battle will happen, you just won't make the cut.