Haiti

[Righ]

The presidential palace:


Red Cross compilation of photos from Haiti:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishredcross/sets/72157623201983100/

Fucking eerie footage of the dust cloud shortly after the main quake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tv7JB3ZnC0

[climbjtree]

Man, I just Haitit when stuff like this happens.

[Endie]

I suppose I shouldn't have made that topographic model of the island then taken it on that bumpy bus ride home.

[Bzalthek]

And now Google Earth has to completely redo the area!

[01101010]

It was Al Qaeda. You just watch.

[Righ]

It's possible that this will become the fourth worst natural disaster of all time. The death toll could exceed the half million of the 1970 Bangladesh cyclone.

[bhodi]

I'm finding it hard to joke about that. That isn't funny at all!

[Righ]

I don't even know why you'd try.

[Trippy]

Because of where you posted the topic.

[LK]

Not to say Haiti had this coming because of God or some other mystical being as some evangelicals would point out, but I'm interested to know if any structural analysis or any architectural consideration made for earthquake stability was done for Port-Au-Prince or any geological surveys performed to see if they were near a fault line.

It's like how some were pointing out how what happened to New Orleans was going to happen because they built the city in a depression that was below sea level. Crippling debt may explain why they couldn't improve the infrastructure of their city in an area that is potentially prone to natural disasters, but it could also be negligence.

[Nebu]

Crippling debt may explain why they couldn't improve the infrastructure of their city in an area that is potentially prone to natural disasters, but it could also be negligence.

I think this is a lesson the US could learn from since we obviously didn't learn a damn thing from Katrina.  It's vitally important to a) continually reinvest in infrastructure and b) have a fucking distaster plan in hand. 

I feel terrible for Haiti.  They already had some serious issues to deal with and little to hope for.  Just when things seemingly couldn't get worse for them, it tragically did. 

[sigil]

Not to say Haiti had this coming because of God or some other mystical being as some evangelicals would point out, but I'm interested to know if any structural analysis or any architectural consideration made for earthquake stability was done for Port-Au-Prince or any geological surveys performed to see if they were near a fault line.

It's like how some were pointing out how what happened to New Orleans was going to happen because they built the city in a depression that was below sea level. Crippling debt may explain why they couldn't improve the infrastructure of their city in an area that is potentially prone to natural disasters, but it could also be negligence.

Live in an environment  that is continually doomed because of debt load and poor  quality of living conditions, with no real means to improve. See if you give as much of a shit about such things as strengthening construction.

[Trippy]

And now Google Earth has to completely redo the area!

http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2010/01/haiti-imagery-layer-now-available.html

[Righ]

Because of where you posted the topic.

I had no idea this was comedy only. It has become used as the catch-all for any transient event of interest. Feel free to move it if you feel there's a more appropriate place.

[pxib]

Much of the world has earthquake standards like this, including a large portion of the United States. Areas that haven't been earthquake prone for a few decades tend to forget how destructive these things can be. If the New Madrid ever goes off we'll see plenty of midwesterners buried in hundred-year-old brick buildings. Ditto New England with lesser known faults like the Ramapo. Haitian construction is especially shoddy, sure, but when you get hit by a surprise 7.0 even carefully engineered places like California and Japan have deaths and damages.

Crushing poverty only ups the death toll... with uncontrolled fires, raw sewage, poor medical care, and starvation.

[Musashi]

Having lived through a 7ish magnitude earthquake, I can tell you they're pretty fucking scary.  The ground looks like it's water, and there's waves.  Pretty much all you can do is get as low to the ground as possible, and try not to hurt yourself.  There's no running out of a house.  There's no saving the cat.  You're pretty much a victim if where you are at the moment it happens is not structurally sound.  Fortunately in the Bay Area, it's pretty well known that there's going to be an earthquake here and there.  So codes are pretty strict. 

I can't even imagine the mess an earthquake like that causes in someplace like Haiti.  This is not your average disaster.

[Nebu]

Crushing poverty only ups the death toll... with uncontrolled fires, raw sewage, poor medical care, and starvation.

Lack of potable water is going to have a huge effect as well.  We take water very much for granted, but dysentery is already taking its toll. 

[pxib]

That's the raw sewage issue. Was also a major issue in the 2004 Indian ocean tsunami.

[Strazos]

The death toll here is going to be...horrific. Especially when you consider how hard it is to get supplies and people in.

[Strazos]

Also, I'm just going to leave this here:

For missing U.S. citizen family members, call 1-888-407-4747 or provide information via email (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/pa/pa_haiti_info_number.html). To help, text "HAITI" to "90999" and $10 will be sent the Red Cross, charged to your cell phone bill.

Just in case anyone wanted an easy way to donate money, or if you or someone you know is looking for an American citizen who may have been in Haiti at the time.

[WayAbvPar]

What are the odds Haiti ends up like Somalia? They didn't have the most robust government before, and now with all the infrastructure busted to shit I can't see them governing effectively for a long time.

[NowhereMan]

They're surrounded by relatively stable countries and close to the US. Things have the potential to get bad but they've got a much better situation than Somalia and there's no way surrounding countries are going to let it get to the point where trouble from Haiti starts hitting the rest of the Carribean. Hopefully the help gets where it needs to and things get back to survivable pretty quickly. It's a shame since apparently Haiti had been relatively unaffected by the worldwide depression and it's economy had finally started to look like it was improving.

[Soln]

Is the Dominican Republic helping at all?  They share the same island

[Fraeg]

Just read an interesting tidbit: Apparently there are no national building codes in Haiti.  Which just leaves me in awe, that helps put in perspective to me just how bad things are in that country if they don't even have national building codes.

Pretty sad sad event.

I would add to Haimish's list of people to air drop into Haiti Baby Doc himself who apparently is kicking it in Paris.

[TripleDES]

Gods Etch-a-Sketch.

[Teleku]

What are the odds Haiti ends up like Somalia? They didn't have the most robust government before, and now with all the infrastructure busted to shit I can't see them governing effectively for a long time.

Well, we're sending over 10,000 troops, plus elements of the 82nd Airborne division, so I guess they are already paralleling Somalia.   

But as NowhereMan said, it wont happen.  The US on its own will be sure that any country within its sphere of influence remain stable (thats actually been the bedrock of American foreign policy for over 100 years).  Haiti also doesn't suffer from the other things that keep Somalia fucked up and fractured, such as thousands of years of clan based society and radical Islam.

[LK]

Some sources are claiming 50,000 dead, some 500,000. Geez, which is it?

[01101010]

Some sources are claiming 50,000 dead, some 500,000. Geez, which is it?

From the makers of the swine flu pandemic... whatever number sells more/gets more viewers!

[Grimwell]

I don't think they will have any sort of idea for another week really. Everything I've heard suggests that the aid efforts haven't gotten out on the ground and really kicked in (unless they did while I was sleeping).

Once the heavy equipment shows up and they are digging people out, the numbers will start to become clear.

[Sheepherder]

(thats actually been the bedrock of American foreign policy for over 100 years)

So far, so good.

[Endie]

What are the odds Haiti ends up like Somalia? They didn't have the most robust government before, and now with all the infrastructure busted to shit I can't see them governing effectively for a long time.

One element is mentioned already: they're in a stable region with neighbours ready to involve themselves.

Another element is (and I am cautious about saying this) Haiti is not in possession of a significant Muslim element in its population, ready to be radicalised against its government.

[Strazos]

As far as I know, Haiti is just oppressively poor...not much radicalism of any type there.

[Raph]

I used to live there. Here is where I lived:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hotel_Montana_Haiti_after_earthquake.jpg

The US as a government has really not done that much over the decades for Haiti. NGOs and charities and religious groups have been the boots on the ground for most of that time. It is hard to say that "it's in the backyard" is enough.

Building codes? Dude... building codes take a WAY more complex level of government than Haiti has. Had. Haiti has trouble managing "police force" and "school" and "no slavery."

[Righ]

As far as I know, Haiti is just oppressively poor...not much radicalism of any type there.

The problem these days is that radical extremists have wealthy benefactors, mobility and an international agenda. If we leave the situation unattended, Haiti may not be simply poor for long. The sense of hopelessness associated with abject poverty can be easily leveraged, and a few plane tickets and visas are easier to obtain than fealty from the unoppressed.

The actual recovered body count is up to around 50,000 now. It's anybody's guess how many more are dead. Worse still, many of those who survived the quake are still fighting to survive the aftermath.

[WayAbvPar]

The problem these days is that radical extremists have wealthy benefactors, mobility and an international agenda. If we leave the situation unattended, Haiti may not be simply poor for long. The sense of hopelessness associated with abject poverty can be easily leveraged, and a few plane tickets and visas are easier to obtain than fealty from the unoppressed.

That makes a lot of sense. I just can't see the government making any kind of a comeback- the place is in ruins. Some sort of imported uprising wouldn't surprise me at all, and Al Qaeda and their buddies are just the sort of fuckers to do it.