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Author Topic: Internet Dating: Everyone's still shallow  (Read 113219 times)
Comstar
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Reply #1400 on: November 21, 2018, 02:13:59 AM

Update from someone who started his internet dating a few years ago on OkCupid:

Meet girl. Married Girl. Had Baby boy. Now got identical twins coming, but the risks are very very high for everyone. I don't know what we'll/can/will do. Going to be very hard no matter what happens.

I'm glad I did started the Internet Dating thing still.


Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
Cyrrex
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Reply #1401 on: November 21, 2018, 02:41:54 AM

Risks?  As in you are getting up there in years and the birth is risky, or the risk of twins driving you past the edge of insanity?  Anyway, good on you.

My own lack of updates in this thread due in large part because I just finally moved out from my ex three weeks ago, and am busy with that.  And also, kinda enjoying my alone time, which I don't want to mess up with just any random ho.  I am still shopping around a bit, but rather passively.

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Comstar
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Reply #1402 on: November 22, 2018, 03:35:20 AM

Risks?  As in you are getting up there in years and the birth is risky, or the risk of twins driving you past the edge of insanity?  Anyway, good on you.

Age, medical issues, previous history.

Exactly how bad are identical twins once they arrive? I have no idea how it would work.

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
Ironwood
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Reply #1403 on: November 22, 2018, 09:34:20 AM

Having any kids is delving into Hell, so making degrees of it seems pointless.  I've always been told multiple kids is actually easier because the support is in place already, but fuck finding out.

Good Luck.


We're all counting on you.

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Brolan
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Reply #1404 on: November 22, 2018, 10:11:40 AM

One baby is bad, two at the same time is worse.  The first year will be literal hell. 

If you can, get some help.  Relatives, or if you have the means, hire someone.
Father mike
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Reply #1405 on: November 24, 2018, 04:13:43 PM

I have been told by several friends and acquaintances that the ramp up on 1->2 kids is just as bad or worse than 0->1. (We just have 1)  But 2->3 is just a marginal nudge in difficulty.  No idea what the jump from 1 to 3 would be.  But it seems ... difficult. 

Just having more people under 3 than adults is going to be hard.  Around 3, you can tell them "sit there untill i deal with this"; they won't really do it, but you can buy yourself 30-90 seconds, depending on the kid. 

Hope you get past your risks with everyone in good shape!

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rattran
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Reply #1406 on: November 24, 2018, 04:37:11 PM

I have younger identical twin sisters, and the extra stress of twins certainly contributed to the dissolution of the marriage. 2 babies is 4 times the work, my mom used to say.
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Reply #1407 on: November 24, 2018, 06:27:48 PM

Update from someone who started his internet dating a few years ago on OkCupid:

Meet girl. Married Girl. Had Baby boy. Now got identical twins coming, but the risks are very very high for everyone. I don't know what we'll/can/will do. Going to be very hard no matter what happens.

I'm glad I did started the Internet Dating thing still.



Haha hooooooooooooooo boy

grats or something
lamaros
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Reply #1408 on: December 16, 2018, 09:26:24 PM

So it seems I'm going to try this thing. It will be interesting, at least?

Expect poison from the standing water.
NowhereMan
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Reply #1409 on: December 17, 2018, 03:43:27 AM

I'm more and more getting the feeling that this is how people meet now. Internet dating sites and apps. In the last 8 years I'd say it's gone from something nerds who understood the internet and people who were just seriously looking for a partner/action did to something that is a mainstream, normal social activity for single (mostly) people. Tinder's fun UI and ease of entry (combined with great marketing via journalists writing lifestyle pieces on it endlessly) has successfully made looking for dates something people can do in 5 minute bursts when they're goofing off at work or waiting for a bus.

Pretty much everyone I know who started dating someone else in the last couple of years met their SO through Tinder or similar. It's actually kind of crazy as a shift in behaviour

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Teleku
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Reply #1410 on: December 17, 2018, 04:07:57 AM

I mean, before this, you pretty much had to rely on having a large circle of friends (not something the majority of people have) with which could introduce you to all of their friends to meet potential partners.  Or go to a bar and catcall random girls standing around.

This way is far more convenient for meeting new people. 

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Cyrrex
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Reply #1411 on: December 17, 2018, 04:10:56 AM

You can also literally filter through a shocking number of people in no time at all, which is otherwise impossible in any other format.

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Khaldun
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Reply #1412 on: December 17, 2018, 06:23:32 AM

The problem I think is that with the older common ways that people met: introduced by friends, striking a chord with a stranger at a party or event like a wedding, in college, sometimes through a workplace or profession, etc., people weren't totally in control of their own sense of what they wanted in a partner. So that led sometimes to really bad relationships, but it also led often to really good ones that were a surprise to both partners--e.g., they found themselves attracted to someone that they didn't fully expect to be attracted to. I think with dating apps, people much more consciously inventory what they think they want in a partner--and they're sometimes wrong for the same reasons that we sometimes don't fully understand ourselves (or aren't able to be honest with ourselves about ourselves). It's also a sociological shift with consequences that may be far-reaching in terms of whether people mix or not.
Cyrrex
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Reply #1413 on: December 17, 2018, 07:14:33 AM

The problem I think is that with the older common ways that people met: introduced by friends, striking a chord with a stranger at a party or event like a wedding, in college, sometimes through a workplace or profession, etc., people weren't totally in control of their own sense of what they wanted in a partner. So that led sometimes to really bad relationships, but it also led often to really good ones that were a surprise to both partners--e.g., they found themselves attracted to someone that they didn't fully expect to be attracted to. I think with dating apps, people much more consciously inventory what they think they want in a partner--and they're sometimes wrong for the same reasons that we sometimes don't fully understand ourselves (or aren't able to be honest with ourselves about ourselves). It's also a sociological shift with consequences that may be far-reaching in terms of whether people mix or not.


Spot on.  Also, when you get stuck to this "inventory of things", you mathematically disqualify 99.9% of what is out there (a made up number, obviously), despite what you think might be reasonable criteria.  Women do it more, I am guessing, due to the illusion of choice they believe they have, but that said I have no idea what male profiles typically look like.  I am going to update my profile with a list of totally unreasonable requirements just for a laugh. 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 07:19:40 AM by Cyrrex »

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Phildo
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Reply #1414 on: December 17, 2018, 10:27:28 AM

There are lots of places on the internet to see what common male profiles are like.  Lots of pictures of dudes holding up fish, Machu Picchu, things like that.

I'll say that while I met my wife via Tinder, I was also going out to bars and clubs and meeting people organically.  I wasn't ok at getting numbers, but very bad at follow up.  There's a skillset to meeting people IRL that online dating helps you work around.
NowhereMan
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Reply #1415 on: December 17, 2018, 10:53:12 AM

I'm kind of torn on the question of whether it really does present a fundamental change in the types of relationships people are likely to have going forward. With sites like OKCupid or Match I think Khaldun's worry is pretty accurate, we'd be in danger of self-selecting to our own ideas of what partner we want and that could be problematic.

I don't think that's how the majority of internet dating happens though, apps like Tinder or Bumble don't really let you select for much more than age and geographical location. After that you are back to the kind of basic aesthetic judgements that people make when they're thinking about approaching someone in real life at a bar or a party. Do they look attractive? With the caveat of course that it's very dependent on how well someone is photographs, how much effort they've put into doing their profile, etc. It's not the same as meeting people in mutual intellectual or sporting type pursuits but for replacing the random hookup or traditional 'meeting someone on a night out' approach to dating I don't see it being a difference in kind but just degree. Whether that difference in degree becomes a difference in kind i.e. there are so many people easily able to access meeting others that it starts to effect behaviour, is something I am interested to see.

Now once we start getting 'the algorithms' being deployed to help suggest and filter we might start seeing some level of self-reinforcing social stuff. I'll be curious what happens when someone shows that Tinder is segregating people by race based on how likely users are to swipe right or interact with matches that fit particular appearances. Or slightly less controversially, Tinder gets found to be showing 'low performing' (ugly or socially awkward types) predominantly to other low performers and de facto starts segregating users based on how popular they are.

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Khaldun
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Reply #1416 on: December 17, 2018, 01:02:01 PM

The interesting question is whether the underlying commercial incentives are different for different services. Tinder, for example, has clearly decided that it is  NOT all that into helping people find someone to be with in a steady way: it's the app for sex and fun. So if you were going to build sorting mechanisms underneath, all you'd want to be sure is that the people paying you are having enough sex and fun--or the hope of sex and fun--that they will still pay you. OKCupid and other older dating services may need to sell on the promise of a relationship more--but then the paradox is that if they're REALLY successful, they lose their clients upon success. If they're good enough at doing it, arguably they can charge a premium--everybody would be willing to pay quite a bit to be matched with someone who makes them happy in a steady, reliable way--but then they have to be known to be just that good at what they do. If they're not (because they almost can't be), they have to build sorting mechanisms that keep people kind of feeling like the Right One might be the Next One, where they never say "I'm giving up, this sucks", but also never "This is just for sex", because that's Tinder's market. If I had to worry about a company using sorting mechanisms that essentially reinforce existing racial and class biases, it would be OKCupid, because folks have different settings for "fun/sex" and "maybe relationship" and their sociological biases tend to kick in more on "maybe relationship".
Phildo
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Reply #1417 on: December 17, 2018, 01:47:47 PM

Most of those services are owned by the same company, too.
Paelos
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Reply #1418 on: December 17, 2018, 01:52:48 PM

I met my wife on the internet dating sites, and I would say the thing that helped us is figuring out what 1-2 things are extremely important to you and then letting the rest sort itself out.

If your list is higher than 1-2 things, then well, get ready to be alone or in the same relationship you've had time and again that failed spectacularly.

My wife is not who I would have selected originally if I'd let my prior biases of what I THOUGHT was good for me get in the way. When I pared it down to basically one delimiter and started dating a wider pool, that's when I found out that things I thought were important were actually really trivial and had nothing to do with having an actual relationship.

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Reply #1419 on: December 17, 2018, 08:22:37 PM

The interesting question is whether the underlying commercial incentives are different for different services. Tinder, for example, has clearly decided that it is  NOT all that into helping people find someone to be with in a steady way: it's the app for sex and fun. So if you were going to build sorting mechanisms underneath, all you'd want to be sure is that the people paying you are having enough sex and fun--or the hope of sex and fun--that they will still pay you. OKCupid and other older dating services may need to sell on the promise of a relationship more--but then the paradox is that if they're REALLY successful, they lose their clients upon success. If they're good enough at doing it, arguably they can charge a premium--everybody would be willing to pay quite a bit to be matched with someone who makes them happy in a steady, reliable way--but then they have to be known to be just that good at what they do. If they're not (because they almost can't be), they have to build sorting mechanisms that keep people kind of feeling like the Right One might be the Next One, where they never say "I'm giving up, this sucks", but also never "This is just for sex", because that's Tinder's market. If I had to worry about a company using sorting mechanisms that essentially reinforce existing racial and class biases, it would be OKCupid, because folks have different settings for "fun/sex" and "maybe relationship" and their sociological biases tend to kick in more on "maybe relationship".
I haven't used Tinder, but I was on Bumble when it was new a few years ago and their algorithms were clearly busted - I swiped right on maybe a hundred women over a couple months of using the app and didn't match with a single one. Every session, the first dozen or so profiles I'd see would be of identical thin hot white blonde women; after that I'd start getting different hair colors but I'm not sure if it ever showed me anyone who was overweight or who wasn't white or Asian. Just no diversity at all. I assume the women were, similarly, being shown primarily muscley, square-jawed hunks, which I am decidedly not.

OKCupid is better for those outside the conventionally attractive mold, either because of physical appearance, weird quirks/fetishes, polyamory, or other things that would quickly get them filtered out of a more one-dimensional experience like Tinder. They market for this, too - take a look at some of the images in the ad campaign they have going; many of them are viscerally unappealing on purpose. It's clearly true that they're letting Tinder dominate the "just sex" part of the market, but I'm not sure it follows that they're focusing on long-term monogamous relationships instead. Poly and other non-conventional relationships are less likely to suffer from the problem of no repeat business, and that user base is probably a little laxer when it comes to socialized biases. So while you're 100% right that OKCupid has way more levers to pull if they do want to do the algorithmically-enforced-social-bubble thing, I'm not sure it's much worse in practice than the one big lever o' hotness that the others have, and they're at least trying to *look* like they're in it for more than fleeting dopamine hits.
jgsugden
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Reply #1420 on: Today at 01:01:53 AM

I met my wife on Match in 2003 or so. 

I made my profile (which was shit), then did a search selecting only one option for every category that made any real difference to me.  Nobody came up.  I expanded my borders.  Noboy came up.  I expanded them again and the only person to come up was the woman that would be my wife.

She was not all that impressed by my profile, but apparently telling someone that you asked the dating site to find the person of your dreams and she was the only one it found is a darn good ice breaker.  We met after a week of emails, moved in together after 5 months and married at about 2 years.  We've been together for 15 years, now.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #1421 on: Today at 02:05:35 AM

While that's a good story, I think in this day and age filtering like that will still get you a load of potential matches still, and whether or not any of them will ultimately engage with you seems to be a crapshoot.  This is probably the thing that annoys me the most about this stuff.  Both sides take a chance to "match", and then when you send some kind of opening communication, you get silence in return.  Which in turn makes me start to match with people and then just....do nothing.

I like the idea of Bumble and am going to give it a spin, but I suspect I will find out that the women are going to either A) be just as silent and/or B) not bother to make a match in the first place.

Edit:  Aaaaaaaaaaaand Bumble almost nobody on it, at least not in my area.  Pity.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:23:55 AM by Cyrrex »

Never, ever assume someone that short and fat has their shit together. - Schild
Khaldun
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Reply #1422 on: Today at 08:39:30 AM

As this thread has made clear, part of the problem with any of these sites, no matter how they're designed, is that women who use them have to do something to control any number of risks they're exposed to--including simply the labor burden of having to deal with the overwhelming numerical imbalance. You can see why a lot of women would just decide to skip it entirely.

I was reading the Washington Post's weekly Date Lab column again this week. It's hilarious because as far as I know in the entire history of the column--weekly for around 5 years, I think--none of the couples they've matched have ever gone on a third date or hooked up (at least so far as the writers can tell). But it's pretty revealing about the limited expectations that all the people who put their names in to be matched bring to the entire idea of dating. A lot of them talk about previous experiences, most of them negative, with dating services or online match-ups. The one that really struck me this week is the woman who had an online romance with a guy, they exchanged pictures, and then finally after six months he drove five hours to meet her in person. He left twenty minutes later, telling her "she wasn't as pretty as he thought from the pictures". She looked quite pretty in the WaPo pictures, so who knows what exactly was going on with that past guy--but you could see why any woman who'd had an experience like that might be guarded about the whole thing.
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