Issue 3 is live

[ClydeJr]

Free respec still has some issues and will be given out later this week. Global chat also still has problems.

http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/updates.html

[*]Upon attaining level 50, you will unlock the first Epic Archetype available in City of Heroes . The Kheldians are a race of energy beings that have made Earth their new home. Kheldians and their dark cousins, the Nictus, attach to humans and form a symbiotic relationship with them.
[*]Upon reaching level 41, you gain the ability to choose from a new set of Ancillary Power Pools to help round out your character. You can only choose one of these Pools, so make your choice wisely.
[*]An internal coup d'etat has shattered the 5 th Column, and from their remnants, a new villain group, the Council has emerged. Rumor has it that the Council is not as new as we would be led to believe. Heroes are urged to investigate every aspect of this new group across all Security Levels.
[*]Smugglers on Talos Island and Independence Port can secure passage for anyone Security Level 20 or over to Striga Isle, an island just off the coast of the United States in international waters. This criminal haven is rumored to be a stronghold and training center for Council troops
[*]Hero Corp has placed agents throughout Paragon City who are able to put a word to all your Contacts about how tough you think you are. Find one of these contacts and for a small fee of Influence they can make all missions you have and take from that point forward harder.
[*]Toxic damage is now in the game (Vaz Vomit) and resistance has been added to all tanker armor.
[*]Increased Tanker Damage.
[*]Changed Tanker Taunt to an AoE Taunt. Increased Recharge Time, and increased duration of taunt effect. Tanker Taunt is an Auto Hit and does not require a ToHit roll.
[*]Made all Tanker attack powers (secondary set) generate hate from all nearby foes. The more damage the power does, the greater the affected area. This effect does not kick in until after level 5, and slowly ramps up from there. The intent is to reduce a tanker's reliance on Taunt powers, and encourage the use of attack powers to keep villains attention on them.
[*]Fixed the long door wait bug, that left players with an hourglass cursor unable to act for an extended period
[/list:u]

[jpark]

I am out of the loop.  No more 5th?

Great to see the Tanker changes - invuln scrappers really left me feeling bad for tanks.

[schild]

I started a new toon the other day, first mission - 5th Column. So, Don't know.

[Shockeye]

You can now hit an opponent with a melee attack while chasing after them.

Love for the scrappers.

[Mesozoic]

I started a new toon the other day, first mission - 5th Column. So, Don't know.

The other day not being today, then?

[Mesozoic]

I am out of the loop.  No more 5th?

They're releasing to Europe and the Germans don't like things with Nazis in them.  And Cryptic doesn't want two different storylines.  So for the love of the German people, we're going to pretend the Nazi thing didn't happen.  

Ain't life weird?

[jpark]

I am out of the loop.  No more 5th?

They're releasing to Europe and the Germans don't like things with Nazis in them.  And Cryptic doesn't want two different storylines.  So for the love of the German people, we're going to pretend the Nazi thing didn't happen.  

Ain't life weird?

I guess this answers a totally unrelated question of mine:  how German culture portrays world war II in movies and their museums.  This is not judgemental on my part - just genuine curiosity.

[geldonyetich]

So Tankers finally get the abiliy to effectively taunt for the group,.  Good!

Everybody else remains largely ignored until 40th.  Post level 40, you get some elite powers.   Good, but nothing I'll ever have to deal with because I'm never hitting level 40.

Post level 50, you unlock the CoH equivilent of Jedis, which are apparentlya aliens and symbiotes.     Also nothing I'll ever have to deal with.

Self-difficulty adjustment mechanics, that's interesting.

Where's my archery-based power set, biatch?

[sidereal]

I guess this answers a totally unrelated question of mine:  how German culture portrays world war II in movies and their museums.  This is not judgemental on my part - just genuine curiosity.

(Brian and Stewie are on a German tour bus)
German Tour Guide: You vill find more on Germany's contributions to ze arts in ze pamphlets ve have provided.
Brian Griffin: Yeah, about your pamphlet... uh, I'm not seeing anything about German history between 1939 and 1945. There's just a big gap.
Tour guide: Everyone vas on vacation. On your left is Munich's first city hall, erected in 15...
Brian Griffin: Wait, what are you talking about? Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and...
Tour Guide: We were invited. Punch vas served. Check vit Poland.
Brian Griffin: You can't just ignore those years. Thomas Mann fled to America because of Nazism's stranglehold on Germany.
Tour guide: Nope, nope. He left to manage a Dairy Queen.
Brian Griffin: A Dairy Queen? That's preposterous.
Tour guide: I vill hear no more insinuations about the German people. Nothing bad happened. Sie werden sich hinsetzen! Sie werden ruhig sein! Sie werden nicht beleidigen Deutschland!
(throws his hand up in a Hitler salute)
Brian Griffin: ...uh, is that a beer hall?
Tour guide: Oh yes, Munich is renowned for its historic beer halls.

[stray]

Post level 40, you get some elite powers.

Great....My Gravity Controller gets a new bolt to help with the damage. Post level 40. Just when I need it the most.

Fucking idiots.

[Big Gulp]

Well, started a Peacebringer, and so far they're pretty damned great.  Flight at level 1, very low endurance cost for my attacks, and my wonder twin power (shapeshifting) is frickin' fun.  Grouping with one is even better.  I've tried offensive groups and defensive groups and the way your powers change according to group makeup is pretty impressive.  Makes for very different strategic play.

Very soloable, by the way.  The "quantum" enemies that deal out big damage are much rarer then I thought they'd be, usually only one per mission.  I was worried that this would turn out lame, but so far it definitely isn't.

[Glazius]

I am out of the loop.  No more 5th?

They're releasing to Europe and the Germans don't like things with Nazis in them.  And Cryptic doesn't want two different storylines.  So for the love of the German people, we're going to pretend the Nazi thing didn't happen.  

Ain't life weird?

I guess this answers a totally unrelated question of mine:  how German culture portrays world war II in movies and their museums.  This is not judgemental on my part - just genuine curiosity.

Statesman continues to say he's had the emergence of the Council planned for a while. You can still find the 5th on the server - usually throwing down with the Council.

I suppose the ultimate determinant is whether Axis America is still there. Holy Bleak Custom Zone, Batman. If someone's in their 40s and hasn't done the mission yet (Tina McIntyre, I believe) it'd be a good move to check and see.

The 5th as they were do not actually break any German laws. Their symbol is a skull with wings rather than the swastika (yes, even in Axis America), many of them have German names, but that's only for the badass factor.

Based on what you pick up in the Path of the Dark storyarc (35+) it's very reasonable to give Ridolfo Uzzano different motivations than just the perpetuation of the master-race ideal, and the ensuing Warwolf World storyline confirms this.

I'm willing to buy the plot justification.

--GF

[Pineapple]

I guess this answers a totally unrelated question of mine:  how German culture portrays world war II in movies and their museums.  This is not judgemental on my part - just genuine curiosity.

Speaking publicly or writing anything in favor of Nazism is a crime in Germany. This isnt to hide the past, but rather to declare to themselves and the world that it will never happen again.

Having a Nazi NPC organization in the game is just asking for trouble, especially when City of Villians comes out. So, better to avoid the hassle and change it.

There are museums and memorials in Germany for the Holocaust victims, and they are done with a somber mood.

[Pineapple]

The 5th as they were do not actually break any German laws. Their symbol is a skull with wings rather than the swastika (yes, even in Axis America), many of them have German names, but that's only for the badass factor.

Except for the fact that the player manual states that the 5th Column are a spin-off branch of Nazis. When City of Villians comes out, will you be allied to them in any way?

Something like this is simply asking for trouble in Germany. It is in fact against the law. Go read up on the trouble some first person shooters got into in Germany when they had Nazis in their games.

[Glazius]

The 5th as they were do not actually break any German laws. Their symbol is a skull with wings rather than the swastika (yes, even in Axis America), many of them have German names, but that's only for the badass factor.

Except for the fact that the player manual states that the 5th Column are a spin-off branch of Nazis. When City of Villians comes out, will you be allied to them in any way?

Something like this is simply asking for trouble in Germany. It is in fact against the law. Go read up on the trouble some first person shooters got into in Germany when they had Nazis in their games.

I've been following the discussion on the CoH forums, actually. I do agree that the main fear is that someone will start up a 5th group in City of Villains and start laying down the Nazi propaganda left and right.

But the fact of the matter is that aside from the word "Nazi" appearing in a description of the former 5th Column in the manual, the 5th as they are now don't present Nazi symbology or ideology. They use German for the badass factor (because Fog, Night, and Fury just don't have that ring).

It's a shame they dropped Axis America (yeah, checked it out) because that was one of the few custom outdoor zones.

It _has_ been iterated on the forums, from actual German players, that the 5th Column and Axis America don't break any German statutes.

--GF

[Der Helm]

Something like this is simply asking for trouble in Germany. It is in fact against the law. Go read up on the trouble some first person shooters got into in Germany when they had Nazis in their games.

I am by no way a lawyer, but I think I have a quite firm grasp on the laws, covering this subject.

Over here, spreading nazi propaganda and/or glorification of nazi-germany, use of their symbols and things alike, are a serius crime, you go to jail for stuff like that. And rightly so.

What brought some shooters on the index, was the fact that there where LOTS of symbols, all over the place. Not that I agree, as there was no glorification (germans are the bad guys, all the time), but our authorities tend to err "on the save side".  Once the symbols where gone/switched for something else, the "ban" was usually lifted. Actually quite a loophole, that some (very small) german "partys" use to their advantage. Cocksuckers.
Now if you excuse me, I am off to troll their boards ...

[HaemishM]

Speaking publicly or writing anything in favor of Nazism is a crime in Germany. This isnt to hide the past, but rather to declare to themselves and the world that it will never happen again.

Yes, because not reminding people how one segment of history turned an entire nation into genocidal cockknobs is a real good way to ensure that future peoples don't get the same ideas.

Or...

"Those ignornant of history are doomed to repeat it."

Same big FU goes to Japan for trying to whitewash Pearl Harbor into a "You knew we were coming!" kind of thing.

[Mesozoic]

I get more irritated when the Japanese wail and cry about Hiroshima and Nagasaki while ignoring Nanking and other war crimes in China.

But...back to CoH....

looks like the 5th ARE still there, duking it out with the Council.  Personally, I applaud Cryptic for not just going with the "5th what?  Column?  Never heard of it."  approach.  As with capes, they at least married development realities to game fiction.

[Der Helm]

Speaking publicly or writing anything in favor of Nazism is a crime in Germany. This isnt to hide the past, but rather to declare to themselves and the world that it will never happen again.

"Those ignornant of history are doomed to repeat it."

You might want to re-read that  quote ...

[Pineapple]

It _has_ been iterated on the forums, from actual German players, that the 5th Column and Axis America don't break any German statutes.

--GF

It isnt up to the "actual German players", however. It is now probably  intertwined through the lawyers, who tend to take the safe route and protect the company first. Even at the mere threat of trouble, it is better to be safe and just change it. It could mean money.

I'm speaking from the legal perspective on it. Whether or not anyone actually cares at all if 5th Column exists, strange and different behaviors occur within the legal system. Some company lawyer bending the ear of an exec can get many things changed, and nobody doubts lawyers within a company.

[jpark]

More generally, what I like about what Crypitc is doing with its updates is it continues to offer more choices at higher levels, rather than the standard N+1 spell upgrade system endemic to other games.

You take the concealment pool then the flight pool etc.  And at higher levels - 41+ - you get access to more pools to choose from (note 'choose" meaning you cannot have them all - which means one has to accept trade-offs and implement a strategy).

I don't suffer from Denial - I know I am a fanboi :P

[eldaec]

German law does not prevent the teaching of early twentith century history, quite the reverse in fact. Most of the guff talked on the subject is utter nonsense.

Specific symbols and parties cannot be represented in specific ways, it made life a lot easier for everyone in the immeadiate aftermate of the second world war. It now causes minor headaches to the entertainment industries.

As others have pointed out....

1) The 5th column have not entirely left the game.

2) The 5th do not have issues with German law (and if they have any that I missed, they would just be minor dialog changes to obscure story arcs)

3) I suspect the story arc hasn't finished and the 5th will return in some capacity.

[HaemishM]

Speaking publicly or writing anything in favor of Nazism is a crime in Germany. This isnt to hide the past, but rather to declare to themselves and the world that it will never happen again.

"Those ignornant of history are doomed to repeat it."

You might want to re-read that  quote ...

I'm altogether in favor of allowing someone to speak in favor of Nazism. The more they speak, the more rational people will see them for the asshats they truly are. Things like Fascism, Communism, Conservativism, etc. are always much more dangerous when they have to resort to subltety, because most people couldn't catch subtlety with a net and a fucking map. So, many more people can be easily duped into the most heinous things simply because they weren't told the whole truth.

Give Nazis all the exposure they want, and most people will look at them like they have snakes crawling out of their eyes.

And yes, I am aware my spelling on the ignorance quote sucketh. Damnit Jim, I'm a writer, not a spellchecker.

[Pineapple]

1) The 5th column have not entirely left the game.

Yet.

2) The 5th do not have issues with German law (and if they have any that I missed, they would just be minor dialog changes to obscure story arcs)

We do not know what City of Villians will entail, and how the 5th Column will work exactly in that. So while it currently may not be a problem, it might be seen as a problem with future expansions unless a change takes place. Even a gradual change over time moves toward an end result, before the expansion is released.

[Pineapple]

Give Nazis all the exposure they want, and most people will look at them like they have snakes crawling out of their eyes.

Not always. During times of great stress or conflict, people act strangely and follow leaders that might not otherwise get any attention. It has happened many times in human history. These evil leaders got power somehow, someone at some point had to listen to them and think "yeah, that's right!".

I think these laws however are more of a case where the winner of a war dictates how the loser of a war will behave from this point onward. The laws tell all the world "Ok look, its not going to happen here again".

[HaemishM]

No, the laws tell the world "We're sticking our head in the sand and not listening when you talk about how bad we were! LALALALALA"

[eldaec]

We do not know what City of Villians will entail, and how the 5th Column will work exactly in that.

True - it would, however, be trivial to set CoV up so that players cannot be in it if this posed a problem (I have a hard time seeing what possible legal problem it could cause mind you).

In fact, I'd consider it extremely likely that if player villians are made part of villian groups (which also isn't certain), then they will probably be new groups not already in game.

If I were handling the back story for CoV, I'd probably put CoV in an alternate dimension linked to CoH through the portal technology we see so much of. That way you can reuse the locations (retextured for their alternate present) and make certain elements of existing content available to CoV players, thus avoiding the problem DAoC has where they only get credit from an individual player for 33% of the content created. Being in an alternate dimension also has the advantage of not having to explain why certain villian groups that the devs might be uneasy about including aren't there.

Technically far more countries have laws that would have problems with facilitating players joining the Trolls (drug users), Nemesis (racists), or even the Family (extortionists), than they would with the 5th, at least without putting a more restrictive age certificate on the game.

[Mesozoic]

I <3 Cryptic

I bet this will be interesting.

And yes, this is a blatant re-rail.

[stray]

If I were handling the back story for CoV, I'd probably put CoV in an alternate dimension linked to CoH through the portal technology we see so much of.

There's a comic with the same premise, actually. It's called "Wanted". It takes place in a world where the villians rule. All superheroes in their world have been killed off, so they start taking the fight to the heroes in alternate dimensions.

[eldaec]

I am out of the loop.  No more 5th?

They're releasing to Europe and the Germans don't like things with Nazis in them.  And Cryptic doesn't want two different storylines.  So for the love of the German people, we're going to pretend the Nazi thing didn't happen.  

Ain't life weird?

I guess this answers a totally unrelated question of mine:  how German culture portrays world war II in movies and their museums.  

No.

It really doesn't.

[CmdrSlack]

No, the laws tell the world "We're sticking our head in the sand and not listening when you talk about how bad we were! LALALALALA"

But, see, that's not what happens.  When I finished up my German degree, I had taken several classes on German culture and history, one of which was about the Holocaust in German film and literature.  It's not illegal to mention that it happened, it's illegal to glorify Naziism.

While you're right that for the most part, allowing nutjobs to speak freely keeps most people from listening to them, a quick look at the politics forum shows that even less scary nutjobs have followers who are pretty damn rabid.  

As a final comment, I'm of the opinion (call me an apologist if you wish) that most Germans weren't Nazis (as in actual party members) by choice.  Hitler was, after all, a fascist dictator.  He put political opponents in camps just like he did to the Jews, gays, socialists and gypsies.  When you're faced with "be a Nazi" or "die in a fake shower," the choice is pretty clear for most death-adverse folks.

[Sobelius]

What bothers me a little more than wondering how people under Nazi rule could "allow" it are two recent things:

1. Rwanda's genocide of 1994 and the implosion of Yugoslavia into warring ethnic cells. Both of these horrific regional events were conducted not under the guide of a single strong-arm dictator, but by many many members of the general population...

2. The way the GOP not only prevented any non-Bush supporter from attending Bush rallies (kicking out anyone wearing a Kerry t-shirt or button) but also (*worse*) REQUIRING that attendees sign a form saying they were Bush supporters. There was nothing illegal about this -- it's just that I found the very fact it happened -- and that people didn't question it as somehow smelling of fascism -- chilling.

Growing up, I used to think nothing like the Holocaust could ever happen again -- I thought there was no way anyone in their right mind could even conceive of being part of such a thing again. I have since learned differently, of course.

[Mesozoic]

You all are going to put this thread into the Politics forum, where there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[Pineapple]

You all are going to put this thread into the Politics forum, where there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Yes back on the topic.

So...

Peacebringers seem to draw a lot of agro to themselves. Maybe they just need to learn how to play the type. I dont want to be one shot killed by quantums though, so I'll pass on playing one.

[stray]

So isn't Statesman's archrival the "Reichsman"? What happens to that guy?