Guild Wars 2

[Sjofn]

I didn't aggro anything, because I aggressively refused to drive. 

[Fordel]

The trick was to just plow through everything and not give a fuck!

[Sjofn]

I always enjoyed the handful of people who were hated by the Picts or whatever ruining it for the rest of us.

[Phred]

I watched my roomie playing it over the weekend, and on top of not being able to decide whether I was impressed or amused at the fact that the screen had his e-mail address overlaid over it dozens of times as an anti-screenshotting device, I liked a lot of what I saw.  I was disappointed at the lack of voice-acting, however; that's one piece of immersion that many MMOGs could definitely use.  Seeing a paragraph pop up over an NPCs head was just so 2002.

I'd argue the opposite. Unless you have Bioware's budget which even they may never see again, your voice acting is typically so pathetic I'd rather read the text. Example: Rift.

[Lantyssa]

Personal story stuff is voice acted.

[Quinton]

Wow, had not really looked at anything about GW2 until today.  This actually looks pretty interesting.  If they can really pull off the event system, that'll be something else.  Love the art style.  Nice to see something that's not just-another-wow-clone... gives me hope...

[kildorn]

More WvW footage, with no commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yMTrsXsb0B4

That is so DAOC2.

[Phred]

The only way any open-world RvR can survive is to 100% eliminate short-timer instanced RvR of the same kind. You will never maintain much open-world motivaton and density if poeple can lazily sit on their ass and queue for Stupid Pet Trick instances.

So the only way people will play it is if forced to. Gotcha.

[Tannhauser]

Wow, had not really looked at anything about GW2 until today.  This actually looks pretty interesting.  If they can really pull off the event system, that'll be something else.  Love the art style.  Nice to see something that's not just-another-wow-clone... gives me hope...

I'm not saying it's a WoW/DAoC clone, but it's a WoW/DAoC clone.

[Nevermore]

More WvW footage, with no commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yMTrsXsb0B4

That is so DAOC2.

The first video looked interesting but this video here shows how it can easily devolve into nothing more than a zerg.

[Fordel]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Sjofn]

Zergs are good. Sjofn like zergs.

Zergs are when you have 10 people, right?

[pxib]

A huge pile of people beating uselessly on the door instead of defending the siege equipment.

Definite DAoC memories, yes.

[Nevermore]

The only thing missing was the enchanter running in and blowing them all up.

[kildorn]

From what I've seen, you need supply to build shit/repair your keep. Supply is trucked in via mule from nearby camps. So the basic idea is Keep = Zerg (because seriously, who sieges a keep with like 5 dudes), and small group content is clearing camps and ambushing mules. As well as small zerg content of taking towers (which appear to lack keep lords, and are just capture points)

I sort of like the distinction in an attempt to give everyone something to do. But the part that screams DAOC is the zoned out people at the siege completely ignoring hostiles either running in or attacking from behind. Or standing in the hilariously obvious AE circles.

[01101010]

From what I've seen, you need supply to build shit/repair your keep. Supply is trucked in via mule from nearby camps. So the basic idea is Keep = Zerg (because seriously, who sieges a keep with like 5 dudes), and small group content is clearing camps and ambushing mules. As well as small zerg content of taking towers (which appear to lack keep lords, and are just capture points)

Camp Mules =PlanetSide ANTS on autopilot? Nice...

[Sky]

But the part that screams DAOC is the zoned out people at the siege completely ignoring hostiles either running in or attacking from behind. Or standing in the hilariously obvious AE circles.

[tazelbain]

How supply will combat zergs is an open question. Obviously, nothing with stop lazy players from zerging. But unless supply is very stong, zerging will be preeminent strategy.

So I see people carrying supply, are they getting it for the keeps or camps or something else?  I see oxs carrying supply to keeps, what happens to the supply when it reaching the keeps?  What a happens to the supply you are carrying if you die?  Siege equipment, is purchased at a keep or is it crafted some how?

Siege golems are awesome.  They really need a couple dozen different types of them.  Really just replace all siege equipment various siege golems.  Much more iconic and fun.  If you don't want them to move, root them for their long range abilities like siege tanks.

[Bungee]

So I see people carrying supply, are they getting it for the keeps or camps or something else?  I see oxs carrying supply to keeps, what happens to the supply when it reaching the keeps?  What a happens to the supply you are carrying if you die?  Siege equipment, is purchased at a keep or is it crafted some how?

People carry supplies to both keeps and towers. You can upgrade the defenses of towers as well as camps just like those of keeps (get additional NPCs, reinforce Walls, repair stuff). Oxen (or in this case "Dolyaks") drop their supply off at the keeps. Each keep has a "dump" where all supply coming in by oxen is accumulated. I think it's limited in how much it can store. You can purchase siege equipment at your "Base" as well as in keeps which you upgraded (using supply) to have a vendor move there (also there are vendors in the open world if I remember correctly). So yes- if you have a keep/tower stocked up with supplies and a vendor, you can mount a whole lot of firepower on your reinforced walls and blow any incoming zerg to pieces. Against a remotely coordinated defense (people bringing in supply somehow, knowing when and where to place mortars, cannons, when and what to repair...) it seems to me it would take a very well coordinated attack to get a keep down.

[01101010]

It sounds like "starving them out" might just work here. I like that.

[kildorn]

Yeah, the idea is you can starve a keep by just banging on the walls a bit and running them out.

If you watch the videos when someone goes into/near a keep, there's a supply meter for it on the upper right. Repairs/upgrades cost supplies, and buying siege or weapon emplacement costs supply. I can see it actually being annoying as shit if idiots just burn all the supply at a keep buying stupid shit or mounting cannons everywhere. But it does seem to be trying to address the idea of a zerg just camping out in the main keep or something and refusing to sally out to reclaim supply camps.

You can also see one of the Yogs folks assaulting a supply camp, they seem really easy for a half dozen people to swarm over. Five or so guards, not very beefy. It should be a full time job for 5 mans to run around and cap/recap them.

[Trippy]

Can you drop ANTs to replenish supplies?

[01101010]

Can you drop ANTs to replenish supplies?

That would give dragons a potential in an unconventional sense.

[Sheepherder]

There is a difference in population imbalance due to low server population, vs. differences caused by successful strategic manuevering that make imbalances happen. You can (and should) have 10v250 if you surprise a keep with minimal defenders present with a huge surprise attack, right? I think you are talking about the former kind, through no fault of strategy.

You can do that in an instanced/auto-balanced battleground.

[Redgiant]

So the only way people will play it is if forced to. Gotcha.

Actually, yes. By not cannibalizing the population into competing spaces, esp. NvN instances.

If a Call to Arms goes out, and the response is:

- fuck that, I'm instance queued
- fuck that, I'm questing
- fuck that, I just solo
- fuck that, I have no motivation to defend my "side" without shiny rewards
- fuck that, I don't socialize
- fuck that, I don't group
- fuck that, I don't travel unless its insta-porting
- fuck that, I don't do command hierarchies
- fuck that, I don't fight unless I'm the hero

by a large number of players, then open-world is guaranteed dead in some months at most. How many more MMOs do we have to see this play out in?

DAoC bred an inherent focus on RvR into everyone playing. It didn't matter if you were still leveling, questing, raiding, crafting - when RvR called, you *wanted* to go to it, no one had to force anyone. In today's games, even with laughably easy-mode features like insta-travel-and-return queues, people are too goddamn lazy to do what everyone used to not bat an eyelash at despite investing more time and effort. We left Legion or dragon raids. We left dungeons. We rode horses to the frontier. We roamed between keeps, or ported if we had captured sufficient territory to earn the perk of a portal. It's part of what made it feel like a world.

I'm not saying GW2 can't do it, but they need to show that they can maintain The Magic (tm) in an ongoing, community-building (not just selfish) way.

[kildorn]

To be entirely honest, when a Call to Arms went out in DAOC I'd bet the vast majority of the players stayed doing their own shit or logged out/went invis to avoid people harassing them.

Keep based pvp will keep the population alive if the population enjoys the activity. If it's trying to live by being the ONLY activity instead of being the most fun, people will simply quit the game entirely.

[Kageru]

Surely it doesn't really matter? Low participation in PvP will be reflected in the rankings that will be used to match servers.

[Kitsune]

The server vs server aspect should help engender some team pride in people.  When I played DAoC, which was before they added in the Darkness dungeon, people would still be all, "We have to stop those Hib pigfuckers from taking our stuff!" and roll out to the pvp zones whenever an attack was incoming.  It helped that there would be serverwide announcements whenever a big battle was underway.  With WoW's setup, the PvP is 24/7 and not a big deal at all.  Queue up and wait.  No pride is on the line, nothing can be lost, it's just some points that you'll get for playing.

By having a persistent battlefield territory to fight over, you put players' pride on the line.  Nobody wants to be the other team's bitch and see their flag flying on top of your castle.  Even otherwise disinterested pvpers will come out to fight in an effort to reclaim 'their' territory.  Of course, you aren't exactly getting the cream of the crop in that situation compared to the dedicated PvP players, but the zerg hordes have a role to play in large-scale PvP too.

I'd expect to see, much like in Planetside, organized guilds doing the heavy lifting while the mindless masses swirl around and blow up random stuff.  Which would be grand.

[Tmon]

... while the mindless masses swirl around and blow up random stuff.

You've perfectly described my preferred pvp style.  I don't have time for a 2nd job but will be perfectly happy to drop in and do my bit for the war effort.  My bit being defined as whatever I happen to think it would be fun to do.  Heck, if I'm in a good mood I might even actually do whatever the all caps guy who thinks he's in charge is telling us to do.

[kildorn]

... while the mindless masses swirl around and blow up random stuff.

You've perfectly described my preferred pvp style.  I don't have time for a 2nd job but will be perfectly happy to drop in and do my bit for the war effort.  My bit being defined as whatever I happen to think it would be fun to do.  Heck, if I'm in a good mood I might even actually do whatever the all caps guy who thinks he's in charge is telling us to do.

As a reformed alb: Never do what that guy is telling people to do. Seriously, that guy is just terrible at the game.

[Falconeer]

Preorders are around. Any idea if this will hit Steam, Origin or anything like that?

[Tmon]

Pre-orders won't be on steam no word on release that I can find.  https://twitter.com/#%21/GuildWars2/status/185751903353835521

[Tyrnan]

Preorders are around. Any idea if this will hit Steam, Origin or anything like that?

Can't see it being on Origin since EA has nothing to do with it, I guess Steam may be a possibility at some stage but I wouldn't count on it since you can just buy it directly from ANet online. The only other information we have at the moment is this wiki page listing the various retailers for the physical versions of the game.

[Phred]

So the only way people will play it is if forced to. Gotcha.

Actually, yes. By not cannibalizing the population into competing spaces, esp. NvN instances.

If a Call to Arms goes out, and the response is:

- fuck that, I'm instance queued
- fuck that, I'm questing
- fuck that, I just solo
- fuck that, I have no motivation to defend my "side" without shiny rewards
- fuck that, I don't socialize
- fuck that, I don't group
- fuck that, I don't travel unless its insta-porting
- fuck that, I don't do command hierarchies
- fuck that, I don't fight unless I'm the hero

by a large number of players, then open-world is guaranteed dead in some months at most. How many more MMOs do we have to see this play out in?

Bad news for you then chief. Guild Wars 2 has instanced arena's too.

[Tmon]

As a reformed alb: Never do what that guy is telling people to do. Seriously, that guy is just terrible at the game.

I usually make it a point to do the exact opposite, but it might actually be funnier to do exactly what he says.  I remember from the army that you could have a lot of fun carrying out an order exactly as it was given.