2009/2010 Football (Soccer) Thread

[HaemishM]

I think Chelsea has the best chance for the title, provided they can all get along and not get injured. United will likely finish second. Liverpool - they disappoint the fuck out of me. They have 4 stars (Torres, Gerrard, Reina and Carragher) an up and coming star (Johnson) and a bunch of squad players. What the fuck kind of plan is it to sell one of your most creative passers for 30 million, then spend 20 million on a guy who will miss the first two months of the season and call it a day? No backup striker, no left back, and they didn't bother getting an extra centre half until their top three guys were hurt. It's a recipe for fucking disaster. Lucas has talent, but it isn't top flight talent. And he sure isn't a replacement for Alonso - I don't think he'd make a good replacement for Mascherano. Rafa has no excuses, he's been the guy behind the transfers and they've done jack and shit. And he still feels the need to start flops like Babel. And why is Reira on the fucking bench? Hell, I'd rather he starts Reira on the left, Benayoun on the right, Gerrard and Mascerhano up the middle and Torres and Kuyt up front if he's not going to bother getting another fucking striker. At least Kuyt works his ass off and he can occasionally head the ball in. The Villa and Spurs games were fucking jokes. Lucas gets an own goal but the worst part is that most of the goals against them so far this season were on set plays. How's that fucking zone working out now Rafa?

Just based on the early days, I'm not sure the Reds can finish top 5. Their squad depth, which was paper-thin BEFORE they lost Alonso and Hyppia is horrid.

[Abagadro]

I'm loving having Setanta free on The Dish.  They are showing Arsenal v. Celtic tomorrow on delay as well as several other UEFA games.

[Amarr HM]

I agree with you Haemish especially about Liverpool the only real addition they have brought this season is experience, but for me the main problem with Chelsea is the amount of managers they have had in the last couple of years could mess with their cohesion a little. Everyones discounted United cause they have lost Ronaldo and Tevez but seriously Tevez was never all that Ferguson was right to let him go and we can live without Ronaldo there was plenty games where he was a liability. I really like the look of the United team that played against Wigan everyone playing in their natural postion, a solid 442 formation with Rooney leading the line but they still lack a great midfielder when Scholes is not playing and Berbatov is unlikely to turn it on every game, I still reckon they are the slight favourites. I agree with Hoax Arsenal are by far and away the most talented bunch of sods to grace the Premiership ever and even have a World Class Brazilian in Eduardo who kind of reminds me of Bebeto or Romario, good/astonishing to see him fully recovered. Damn it's gonna be intriguing though.

[Hoax]

we can live without Ronaldo there was plenty games where he was a liability.

el oh el 

I just hope to see some English failure this year in the CL, it'd be nice to have only 1 or 2 of their teams in the semis for a change.  Also I almost have to not want United to win the title even if they do play better football then Chelsea/Liverpool because of the whole "see! we didn't need Ronaldo he was a pussy and holding us back" shit that I don't want to hear.

[sidereal]

But Nani is pretty fucking good.

[Amarr HM]

el oh el 

You disagree?

[Amarr HM]

I presume so, everyone said the same when Ferguson offloaded Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes one summer, next season they won the double.

When Nistelrooy was offloaded everyone was like omg who's gonna score goals now? Nistelrooy was actually a curse cause our team was so centred around Beckhams crosses and his goals when he didn't play we were fucked. After he left the team became much more dynamic, I'm predicting the same situation here. Just need a good midfielder and we're sorted I wish we got Arshavin :( (I know I've been saying that since the start of the other thread still pissed off about it, betcha Fergie feels the same)

[lamaros]

we can live without Ronaldo there was plenty games where he was a liability.

More than offset by the games where he was fucking amazing, though.

Still, I think Utd can be just as good without him. If someone turns into a top quality central midfielder all of a sudden (which is a big if).

[Hoax]

Man MLS is terrible, so I didn't see any of the games outside of the DC United game where they actually looked like a halfway competent side if you ignored their back line. They got tired though in the midfield and stopped being able to harass and disrupt Toluca and it was quickly all over. That was at home in DC.  Ruh roh.

Meanwhile Dynamo couldn't get better then a draw with 80minutes versus 10 men and Columbus got curb stomped 5-0 so in case anyone was still confused about it. Mexico > USA. Still.

Thought this was a fun article, the photos he links to are pretty cool also

[sigil]

You should read more about that dynamo game. They wound up playing with 8 men. that ref totally fucked that game. Total fuck job/

Dynamo is the only MLS team to go to Mexico and not lose.  But MLS as a whole sucks on these. part of it is talent, a lot more is depth.

MLS is going to need to take some steps to address that druing the CBA negotiations after the end of the year

[Amarr HM]

we can live without Ronaldo there was plenty games where he was a liability.

More than offset by the games where he was fucking amazing, though.

Still, I think Utd can be just as good without him. If someone turns into a top quality central midfielder all of a sudden (which is a big if).

I agree. Though I wasn't saying United are a better team without him just they will have a better team without him.

[HaemishM]

MLS is going to need to take some steps to address that druing the CBA negotiations after the end of the year

What little I understand of MLS salary rules leads me to believe the salary cap is killing them. Not that having a salary cap is bad, but the way it's structured, there are too many squad players who make less than school teachers to have any kind of depth in quality. The DP is actually exacerbating the problem.

[sidereal]

Yes, there's a cap on how much a DP counts against a team's salary cap (I think it's something like 400K out of a total cap of something like 2.5M) and the team pays for the rest out of pocket (vs the league paying the salary, which is how it works for everyone else).  But the cap-counting part is still something like 15% of the cap.  I have no interest in delving into the intersection of math and lawyers, but I wonder if they'd just make 0% of the DP count against the cap it'd help clear some room.  Apparently the DP slots are tradeable and there was some talk of Seattle picking one up from a team that isn't using theirs (I believe it was Kansas City), but an 800K hit on a 2.5M cap for 2 players is brutal.

Or, you know, just get rid of the cap completely, but the USL pyramid, and implement promotion and relegation.

It's kind of weird rooting for a team (Seattle) that has to be raking in the dough from the huge attendances, since you know they can't really spend it on players.  What are they going to do?  Get the best scouts, coaches, and physios in the league, I guess.

[HaemishM]

I'd be all for promotion and relegation from the MLS with the USL, but that ain't happening. I think eventually, there's going to have to be a reckoning with MLS and they are going to start having each team run its own operation like the rest of the goddamn world. The structure was a good idea for a nascent league, but it's quickly outgrowing that structure. And that structure is absolutely a hindrance on the world stage.

[sidereal]

I think promotion/relegation might actually work if you make it so the current MLS teams are never (or not for a long time) at risk.

If I were trying to sell it to current MLS clubs, I'd say that they're all 'blessed' clubs that are safe from relegation for 20 years, so you take the current clubs plus the new expansion teams and add in the top 8 USL1 teams, refill USL1 by adding a bunch of USL2 teams and on up the chain, then implement prom/rel at every level, with the caveat that blessed clubs stay at the top (and either a higher placed unblessed team goes instead, or you just don't relegate and there's one less spot available for a promotion).

[sigil]

Yes, there's a cap on how much a DP counts against a team's salary cap (I think it's something like 400K out of a total cap of something like 2.5M) and the team pays for the rest out of pocket (vs the league paying the salary, which is how it works for everyone else).  But the cap-counting part is still something like 15% of the cap.  I have no interest in delving into the intersection of math and lawyers, but I wonder if they'd just make 0% of the DP count against the cap it'd help clear some room.  Apparently the DP slots are tradeable and there was some talk of Seattle picking one up from a team that isn't using theirs (I believe it was Kansas City), but an 800K hit on a 2.5M cap for 2 players is brutal.

Or, you know, just get rid of the cap completely, but the USL pyramid, and implement promotion and relegation.

It's kind of weird rooting for a team (Seattle) that has to be raking in the dough from the huge attendances, since you know they can't really spend it on players.  What are they going to do?  Get the best scouts, coaches, and physios in the league, I guess.

If you guys are such great shakes where were you 14 years ago?

or back in 2001, where  honestly  the thing could have gone and folded with one more bit of bad news...

It's the structure of the league that has gotten this  thing  to the point that people can make money now. and just because you're doing well doesn't make it the same for everyone just yet. Getting rid of the salary cap will never happen, and if it does, this league has about five, six years left in it. Lets just hope for some fairness and  a better wage for the bottom end.

0.2 on ESPN2 means we're not making a massive dent.  Which is cool, we were coming along nice and steady and the rest of the league is continuing about the same way. Congrats, you guys have had 3/4ths of a great season. Toronto has had two.  Enjoy the ride.

On your shit field turf 


 

[Triforcer]

I'm glad that MLS is at the point where it can make money, but its simply never going to get to the point where (in terms of quality) it is anywhere near the top English, German, Italian, etc. leagues.  Messing around with structure won't change that.

At best, the relationship between MLS and the top Europe leagues will always be like the relationship of Japanese baseball to American baseball. The Japanese are pretty good, and when the Orioles or somebody swings through every year the team that plays them will win 1 or 2 out of 5.  But their best and brightest will always go where the obscene salaries are, which the Japanese teams can't hope to match. 

[sidereal]

Blah blah

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the growth of the league.  I said it was weird rooting for a team with a lot of money that can't spend it.  Is that offensive to you?  I didn't get the memo that it was going to turn into jackass trash-talking day.  But since you asked, 14 years ago the Sounders won the A-League.  And then again the next year.  Where the fuck was Houston?  Hiding in San Jose?

And aren't we 2-0-1 against you this season?  You might want to sub an Earthquakes fan in for your smack talk.  They can actually beat us.

[Hoax]

Hey.  Fuck you both.  We have had a good team twice, but the league keeps taking them and putting them in other places.  Its obviously not because we can support one, since eventually we get another shitty team that needs to be fixed up but it is what it is.  Stupid bullshit, California is the biggest youth development program in the USA, NorCal is no exception to that.

[HaemishM]

I'm glad that MLS is at the point where it can make money, but its simply never going to get to the point where (in terms of quality) it is anywhere near the top English, German, Italian, etc. leagues.  Messing around with structure won't change that.

Never expected it to compete with the EPL or the Italian league or La Liga Primera - but I DO think it can compete with the Bundesliga, the English Championship, the Scandanavian leagues and the better South American leagues given time. But to do that, MLS has to attract YOUNG stars and good squad players and it won't do that when they can go to Austria and make more money riding the pine than they could being a non-star starter in the MLS. Keep the salary keep, but up the minimum salary to at least a living fucking wage and the league will grow. As it is, a lot of the bench depth of teams wouldn't make a non-conference team in England, much less a second tier German side because those guys are getting paid way more. I'm amazed that Houston has maintained such a stranglehold on the league as is.

[sidereal]

Champions League group stage draw was yesterday.  I never manage to glean much from the draws until the games start, but the interesting group looks to be E.  It's got probably the least likely team in the stage in Debrecen, plus Liverpool, Lyon, and Fiorentina.  If Liverpool keep struggling in the Prem and Lyon (who have been crushing it so far this season) beats them up in the group, Rafa will be in a world of hurt.  Also, Fiorentina wear purple, and that's cool.

The TV tells me Group C (Real Madrid, AC Milan, Marseilles, FC Zurich) is exciting.

Arsenal is going to walk through its group.

[HaemishM]

I'm not worried about Liverpool's group. If by some crazy turn of form Liverpool doesn't make it out of the group stage, AND doesn't win the title or any other hardware this season, yeah, Rafa's fucking gone. But I think they have enough class to just blow through this group.

[Abagadro]

Anyone know if La Liga is going to get any play here in the states that might be available on The Dish?

[Abagadro]

I just realized I have asked that question previously.  Sorry, never mind.

[HaemishM]

May have been answered already, but I'll throw in that GolTV has La Liga games. And if you have ESPN360 membership, they are streaming La Liga games.

[sigil]

Modric out with a broken leg. Leave it to Birmingham to hack up the talent... Still, Good run so far. Don't think we'll see that streak continue though. Modric adds a lot to the team.

[Amarr HM]

I've heard amazing things about this Palacios guy, yet to see him an action properly though.

[sidereal]

Great EPL weekend.
Arsenal was
Last minute of Tottenham was
Last minute of Everton was 

[Amarr HM]

Man U were  

[HaemishM]

Liverpool was bad again. Luckily, not only was Bolton worse, the ref gifted Liverpool the man advantage. Really, that second foul was in no way yellow card worthy, and Lucas is a diving bitch for selling it. Without that red card, I'm not sure Liverpool goes on to win. It was a really sad fucking performance by both teams, but worse for Liverpool because they are supposed to be better than fucking Bolton. The new Greek defender whose name I can't spell was ok, but had too many times where he dawdled on the ball like a moron. And holy fucking Christ, I have never seen such sloppy, shitty set piece defense as Liverpool continues to display weekly. Have they allowed any League goals this year that weren't from either a set piece or a penalty?

The Hull-Wolves game was a good one to watch. Phil Brown continues to be a dolt, holding Jozy back til the 60th minute, then subbing off the guys he has such chemistry with (Geovanni and Ghilas). Craig Fagan? Does Phil Brown secretly wish he was coaching Derby circa 07?

The Wigan-Everton finish was something else. Scott Sinclair, good job - take the bad angle shot against 2 defenders while your FOUR TEAMMATES stand just to your left waiting for the pass WIDE FUCKING OPEN.

[WayAbvPar]

I just picked up Modric in fantasy. Sorry I broke him, Spurs fans.

[sigil]

I just picked up Modric in fantasy. Sorry I broke him, Spurs fans.

note that even I, rabid spurs fan, did not pick up modric :)

This was inevitable. he's fragile.  Lennon is better value in  fantasy terms

Palacios is awesome  but not much of a scorer.

[sigil]

Hulll Pick up Jan Vinnegoor of Hesselink form Celtic on a free and  Chelsea is banned from the transfer market for four years.

Also, DC United is offically past it. They need a total overhaul.

Congrats to the Sounders. Now you too can enjoy the wonders of schedule congestion with a paper thin line up like all the better teams in MLS. :)

[WayAbvPar]

LMAO @ Chelsea.

Cup final was a fantastic game. I was disappointed to see Wicks do his thing- I had admired him watching him play in previous matches. That was just complete horseshit, and should be punished appropriately. There are red card offenses that happen in the run of play, and then there are deliberate attempts to injure. He should be banned for a few Cup games minimum.

Seattle finally fucking found the back of the net. They have had more shots going wide or over (and even directly on the frame) or right to the goalkeeper than I can shake a stick at. Hopefully this will give them some confidence and the will to put shots on frame instead of dicking around in the area trying to make a perfect pass. Make the keeper save the ball and see what happens from there.

Now you too can enjoy the wonders of schedule congestion with a paper thin line up like all the better teams in MLS. :)

Heh. The first thing I thought when they mentioned CL was that Seattle will need to seriously beef up its bench to be able to compete in all three next year. They are about 15 deep right now, and need to get closer to 20 to be competitive.

[sidereal]

Add on the fact that the entire team has weak ankles and gets cautioned on a regular basis for bitching at the ref (I'm looking at you, Ljungberg!), and I'm not sure we'll be able to field a full strength side in CL games next season.

I'm in the same boat with Wicks.  I had an inexplicable affection for him, just based on his play.  Now I learn that he's a boneheaded asshole.  The neck tat should have been a warning.

On Chelsea, they can eat a bag of dicks for all I care, but the worst part is that Kakuta is banned for four months.  Gael single-handedly carried my FM09 Wolves team to the Champions League.  If his real life play is anything like his fake computer game play, he's incredible.  For the same reason, I also have an inappropriate affection for Nathan Delfouneso, Arshavin, and Darren O'Dea.