China Bans Gold Farming

[Ingmar]

You know, I just read the article again, and I think "Bans Gold Farming" may not actually at all what happened here.

"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services," the Ministries said.

There's nothing specifically about eliminating real money for fake money in the actual quotes from officials that I've seen, just the exchange of fake money for real goods and services, which I am led to believe actually happens in China. The part about gold farming as we know it in the article seems sort of speculative to me.

I think we need more details before we can start celebrating the death of gold farming for sure.

[01101010]

Coming from FFXI, SE considered RMT a little more than a PR problem. They did quite a bit to curb the "problem."

Correct me if I'm wrong as this is all from heresay as I would never play that fucking horrible game, but didn't it take them years to make a dent in RMT? Wasn't FFXXI the worst offender of them all for a significant period of time?

In the immortal words of the late great Ed McMahon, "You are correct, sir!" It did take SE a very long time to even address the issue. Rumor has it that it was due to a major outcry from the Japanese reaction to being out-botted for HNM spawns and the unreal amount of MPKing farmers would use to clear players from the best NM spawns/zones. And just knowing all that makes me feel dirty on the inside - but it was still a very pretty game. -now i need a shower-

[UnSub]

We need a bit more information to see the exact fallout from this decision.

However, even if China banned gold farming outright and burned all gold farming sweatshops to the ground, there are plenty of other regions to pick up the slack. Ironically it might be the wider adoption of the microtrans among Western titles that drives the impact of gold farming down - when every dollar you earn depends on players not sending it out to third parties, companies start to care deeply about stopping gold farming.

[Oban]

There's nothing specifically about eliminating real money for fake money in the actual quotes from officials that I've seen, just the exchange of fake money for real goods and services, which I am led to believe actually happens in China. The part about gold farming as we know it in the article seems sort of speculative to me.

"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services." ...   But as the trade expanded steadily, with increasing conversions between virtual and real money, there would be an impact on the financial system...

I think it is pretty clear, if you have virtual things, they must remain in the virtual world and not be exchanged for real things.  So if I have 20,000G, I can not exchange it for USD200.  They are not banning the purchase of online credits (microtrans like QQ), but those credits must remain within the virtual realm.  So, systems like QQ can still exist, while the sale of WoW gold for real money would be stopped.

Source:

http://english.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/newsrelease/commonnews/200906/20090606364208.html

[Ingmar]

So the idea is you can spend $ for QQ, but not then change the QQ back out for $? I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense.

[Oban]

So the idea is you can spend $ for QQ, but not then change the QQ back out for $? I suppose that makes a certain amount of sense.

Yes, here is some background on the issue:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB117519670114653518-FR_svDHxRtxkvNmGwwpouq_hl2g_20080329.html

[tmp]

The extent to which the Chinese government will apply its virtual currency rule to online role playing games remains unclear. A report in the English-language China Daily says that in-game gear is not considered virtual currency, so selling virtual items may be allowed to continue.

Spot the loophole.

[Oban]

Selling 20 Runecloth, 50 dollars
Comes with 2000G for free.

[Grimwell]

Since the core topic has been covered well, I'm going to take the bait and opt-in on the tangent:

I really think that Developers don't see RMT as anything more than a PR problem and that's why they never bother to really crack down on it. The only game to do anything to make it less annoying was Turbine/LOTRO with their Rightclick>Golderspammer so you can put them on ignore fairly quickly. I doubt they do anything with the information.

If they really wanted to deal with it, they have to introduce rudimentary logging of player transactions (something as simple as: If %todaysnetworth% > 100 * %yesterdaysnetworth% then %Suspect% = yes)
Then actually ban players for buying it, instead of the gold farmers which are almost impossible to catch. The shit would end real fast. But getting a company to give up a single customer for betterment of their other customers is probably never going to happen. You basically have to stand in the center of your mmos capital city yelling racial slurs for hours on end to get banned nowadays.

Right-click > Ignore in other games as well. This is not novel.

I suppose that server side filtering does not count either? You know, where we catch the spammers and mute them before they can annoy you? Nah, we aren't serious about it. :D Check out the audio from Fan Faire last week and you can see the head of SOE CS talk about some of the measures his staff takes to handle this in our products.

It has an impact.

[UnSub]

WAR, of course, had the Banhammer Count as a public indicator of gold spammers banned:



Of course, the funny thing was that over time that counter has slowed dramatically the rate that it was gone up. So either Mythic is fantastic at stopping in-game spam, the spammers have stopped coming to WAR or the spammers have discovered workarounds.

[Ingmar]

I really think that Developers don't see RMT as anything more than a PR problem and that's why they never bother to really crack down on it. The only game to do anything to make it less annoying was Turbine/LOTRO with their Rightclick>Golderspammer so you can put them on ignore fairly quickly. I doubt they do anything with the information.

This is just simply not true in my experience. Gold spam volume is way down in every MMO I play, not just the Turbine ones. I don't remember the last time I got a spam tell in WoW for example, it has been a few months; I used to get them 10+ times per hour back in the day.

[DLRiley]

WAR, of course, had the Banhammer Count as a public indicator of gold spammers banned:



Of course, the funny thing was that over time that counter has slowed dramatically the rate that it was gone up. So either Mythic is fantastic at stopping in-game spam, the spammers have stopped coming to WAR or the spammers have discovered workarounds.

Or Mythic stops caring.

[Ratman_tf]

It has an impact.

I see very little goldspam in WoW. I remember it came in spurts (huh huh) so I know something's going on behind the scenes. Bless Blizzard and bless anyone who slams goldspammer's dicks with hammers.

[Lum]

WAR, of course, had the Banhammer Count as a public indicator of gold spammers banned:



Of course, the funny thing was that over time that counter has slowed dramatically the rate that it was gone up. So either Mythic is fantastic at stopping in-game spam, the spammers have stopped coming to WAR or the spammers have discovered workarounds.

Or Mythic stops caring.

Or the web guy stopped updating a graphic image. 

[Xuri]

Or someone has clogged all the right tubes and the updated graphic image is stuck somewhere and won't arrive until next week.

[01101010]

WAR, of course, had the Banhammer Count as a public indicator of gold spammers banned:



Of course, the funny thing was that over time that counter has slowed dramatically the rate that it was gone up. So either Mythic is fantastic at stopping in-game spam, the spammers have stopped coming to WAR or the spammers have discovered workarounds.

Or they are bleeding subs so bad that they need the farmer subscriptions to keep their ass above some quota.

[Hellinar]

r they are bleeding subs so bad that they need the farmer subscriptions to keep their ass above some quota.

I remember some PotBS developer at the last Austin GDC quoting some massive hit to revenue they took from gold farmers (10%?). The subs they got were mostly on stolen credit cards, so not only did they lose the sub, but took a big hit in charges from the credit card company. So I doubt encouraging farmer subs would be a good business proposition.

One thing that would make a dint in gold farming is reducing the comparative advantage of gold farmers to average players. Cap the amount of gold a farmer could make in a month to a reasonable multiple of what an average player makes, and gold rates would jump a lot. Of course, you would still have the US/China wage difference, but that  is likely smaller by comparison.

[Mrbloodworth]

It has an impact.

I see very little goldspam in WoW. I remember it came in spurts (huh huh) so I know something's going on behind the scenes. Bless Blizzard and bless anyone who slams goldspammer's dicks with hammers.

I do believe he was referring to impacting operation of a MMO. Not end user experiences.

[UnSub]

WAR, of course, had the Banhammer Count as a public indicator of gold spammers banned:



Of course, the funny thing was that over time that counter has slowed dramatically the rate that it was gone up. So either Mythic is fantastic at stopping in-game spam, the spammers have stopped coming to WAR or the spammers have discovered workarounds.

Or Mythic stops caring.

Or the web guy stopped updating a graphic image. 

That's true - didn't consider that the guy responsible could have stopped / been fired. Mainly because I would have thought such an update would have been automated.

[CharlieMopps]

Since the core topic has been covered well, I'm going to take the bait and opt-in on the tangent:

I really think that Developers don't see RMT as anything more than a PR problem and that's why they never bother to really crack down on it. The only game to do anything to make it less annoying was Turbine/LOTRO with their Rightclick>Golderspammer so you can put them on ignore fairly quickly. I doubt they do anything with the information.

If they really wanted to deal with it, they have to introduce rudimentary logging of player transactions (something as simple as: If %todaysnetworth% > 100 * %yesterdaysnetworth% then %Suspect% = yes)
Then actually ban players for buying it, instead of the gold farmers which are almost impossible to catch. The shit would end real fast. But getting a company to give up a single customer for betterment of their other customers is probably never going to happen. You basically have to stand in the center of your mmos capital city yelling racial slurs for hours on end to get banned nowadays.

Right-click > Ignore in other games as well. This is not novel.

I suppose that server side filtering does not count either? You know, where we catch the spammers and mute them before they can annoy you? Nah, we aren't serious about it. :D Check out the audio from Fan Faire last week and you can see the head of SOE CS talk about some of the measures his staff takes to handle this in our products.

It has an impact.

I'd rather have developer that totally ignores the problem, allowed the spam through unfiltered and never busted a single gold seller/farmer than a developer that introduced it themselves years after a games release. Add to that the fact that all Vanguard servers are now exchange servers? Forcing it on the entire games population. What the gold farmers do, pales in comparison to what you did to your own game. As long as you guys run exchange servers, I'll never play another Sony game. Period.

Sorry if I sound bitter, but I can't play 3 of my favorite games because of SOE's profiteering.

[Rendakor]

Show me on the doll where SOE touched you.

[Rake]

As long as you guys run exchange servers treat your customers with utter contempt, I'll never play another Sony game. Period.

[apocrypha]

Show me on the doll where SOE touched you.

They touched me on the Mos Eisley 

[schild]

Show me on the doll where SOE touched you.

They touched me on the Mos Eisley 

Better than your wookie.

GROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAN

[apocrypha]

They touched me on the Mos Eisley 

Better than your wookie.

GROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAN
[/quote]

 

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Sorry if I sound bitter, but I can't play 3 of my favorite games because of SOE's profiteering.


Then you can play SWG then, it will never touch you that way.

[chargerrich]

You know, I just read the article again, and I think "Bans Gold Farming" may not actually at all what happened here.

I think we need more details before we can start celebrating the death of gold farming for sure.

This is exactly my thoughts. I went to read it again after all the initial reactions. I do not think this impacts in any siginificant way, gold farming. I read it as more about eliminating this fake currency (QQ coins) from purchasing any tangible goods or services. Glad I am not alone here, thought my reading skills had diminished or something.

[CharlieMopps]

As long as you guys run exchange servers treat your customers with utter contempt, I'll never play another Sony game. Period.

Actually, I'd put up with that... and did. But the exchange servers were just too much. And yes, I realize I take an extreme view on this, but I utterly despise RMT.

[Rendakor]

To those who say this doesn't affect gold farming, do you not understand how transactions work?

I do not think this impacts in any siginificant way, gold farming. I read it as more about eliminating this fake currency (QQ coins) from purchasing any tangible goods or services.

What is the difference in spending QQ coins to buy real money, and spending real money to buy WoW Gold?

[Lantyssa]

Wookiee.

[Valmorian]

And yes, I realize I take an extreme view on this, but I utterly despise RMT.

Better get used to it, or give up MMOs.  It's the way of the future..

[WindupAtheist]

If China bans gold farming, how am I going to keep myself amused when the actual game is boring me?

Okay, fair enough.
Be cool WUA, don't blow it!
What? An actual response?
OMG. Run with it.
Not exactly, but close enough to get there. IT'S ON.
Alas, it wasn't meant to be.
This is where I could do something really mean/hilarious like pretend to be my own outraged wife and yell at her for being a scheming whore or something, but whatever. I didn't want their sweatshop master to beat them, so I let them go. One time I tried to convert one of them to my own made-up brand of Christianity until they were just like "Fuck you!" but I forgot to take screenshots.

[Goreschach]

\
This is where I could do something really mean/hilarious like pretend to be my own outraged wife and yell at her for being a scheming whore or something, but whatever. I didn't want their sweatshop master to beat them, so I let them go.

So in other words, all you managed to do was try to cyber with a gold farmer and get shot down?

[WindupAtheist]

I didn't screenshot it, but they were nice and asked me where I got my worg pup. I didn't have the heart to really fuck with them after that. I fail at trolling.  

[Musashi]

Open trade.

Insert all gold.

Don't hit accept.

Harvest lulz.