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Topic: Farrah and Michael Jackson Dead (Read 47455 times)
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Signe
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Posts: 18942
Muse.
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Who is Kelly?
Also, I'm not a liar and I didn't like any of his songs. The Thriller video was fun to watch. Once.
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My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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apocrypha
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Posts: 6711
Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!
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Check out the Amazon Top 10 bestselling albums. Wherever you are I bet it's all MJ now.
Michael Jackson always stood out to me as an example of how badly the music & fame industry can fuck people up. He was an incredibly talented person but he was also clearly mentally ill, and his massive fame and the huge money-making that entailed meant that that mental illness was, afaik, never properly treated. I can't remember which other thread this was discussed (briefly) in, but I remember someone commented that his position probably severely decreased the likelihood of proper treatment, which I think is very true.
Very sad.
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"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350
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I was about to make a post about the only comparable (and equally fucked up but in different ways) pop singer was Madonna. And then I saw Apocrypha's post, and then I went to Amazon and lo and behold what are they pimping with MJ? Madonna.
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Nebu
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I am willing to bet that the abuse from his father during childhood had a lot more to do with his emotional state than the fame did. Being an island didn't help though.
Off the Wall is a brilliant album. The man had incredible talent.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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schild
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abuse from his father 100% this. |
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Stewie
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Another case of a personal view being used as a catch all for everyone. MJ was and still has been relevant. Of course he is still relevant when it comes to influence. So are a million other artists to varying degrees. Anyone with any measure of commercial success will have relevance to the people after them. Will there be many that make anywhere near the impresssion that MJ did, no of course not. What I meant was that he hasn't released anything in ages, the only time he has been in the spotlight was for his oddness/legal troubles. To me, before he died and is all over the news, he was as relevant as Elvis currently is. Which is to mean that if I hear their music I will listen and enjoy but other than that I could really care less about what is going on with them. |
Professional Forum Lurker.
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60350
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Then, like, why are you even in this thread?
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IainC
Developers
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Wargaming.net
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Anyone with any measure of commercial success will have relevance to the people after them. I disagree that commercial success makes you relevant. It just makes you rich. There are plenty of successful performers who will cease to have any relevance at all the day they cash their last royalty cheque because they are simply derivative. MJ was relevant because you could hear his sound in other people's work and not because he sold a gazillion albums. |
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« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 10:12:39 AM by IainC »
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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I guess I'm a minority here, but I never liked any of Jackson's music. And he was a freak/pedo. With no nose. Who used to be black. Color me unsympathetic.
I'm almost right there with you, except that I like the stuff he did before Thriller. Thriller might have been an OK album if MTV and everybody the fuck else hadn't overplayed the shit out of it when I was in middle/high school. Seriously, I got MORE than enough of that album in my teens, I never ever need to hear it again. Once his freakishness was on display for the entire world to see, I never ever needed to hear from him again, other than for him to be put in prison for molesting little boys. My next two weeks will be fucking inundated with Jacko eulogies like he was a goddamn saint. No, he was a freakish pedophile and he deserves none of this adulation. |
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Valmorian
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Anyone with any measure of commercial success will have relevance to the people after them. Will there be many that make anywhere near the impresssion that MJ did, no of course not.
Call me crazy, but I think this just MIGHT be why there's a huge amount of coverage about his death. ;) Well, that and musicians as popular as he was often are held in very emotional/nostalgic regard for many people. |
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apocrypha
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Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!
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I am willing to bet that the abuse from his father during childhood had a lot more to do with his emotional state than the fame did. Being an island didn't help though.
Oh no doubt. I don't think it was (just) being treated like a god that *made* him a nutter, but I do think it prevented him getting better. |
"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Mrbloodworth
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I am willing to bet that the abuse from his father during childhood had a lot more to do with his emotional state than the fame did. Being an island didn't help though.
I don't think he ever had a childhood, until his 30's and on. |
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Sjofn
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My next two weeks will be fucking inundated with Jacko eulogies like he was a goddamn saint. No, he was a freakish pedophile and he deserves none of this adulation.
See, I understand the whole "he was a bad person, a terribly broken, bad person" angle, but saying he deserves no adulation at all is simply crap, because kiddy diddler or no, the man was a huge, huge, HUGE influence musically, and he does deserve to be remembered for that. I'm not saying they should whitewash his issues when covering it, and I am DEFINITELY not saying the media coverage of this is going to go on WAY TOO LONG, but in the arts, you can be a psychotic cannibal and still deserve to be remembered and mourned for your contributions to your art, assuming your contributions are worth remembering. And Michael Jackson's, like it or not, are. |
God Save the Horn Players
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proudft
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Yep - and Exhibit A in the separation of personality from musical artistic importance is Wagner.
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naum
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"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
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naum
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To those calling MJ a pedophile: how do you know this for certain? He was exonerated of charges and never have any those charges stuck…
…granted, his behavior and actions were downright creepy, but to assert the allegations as truth is nothing more than playing God…
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"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
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Teleku
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"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
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Sjofn
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Yep - and Exhibit A in the separation of personality from musical artistic importance is Wagner.
Man, Wagner was a douchebag! Also that Batman thing just made me laugh.  |
God Save the Horn Players
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Ingmar
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I was about to make a post about the only comparable (and equally fucked up but in different ways) pop singer was Madonna. And then I saw Apocrypha's post, and then I went to Amazon and lo and behold what are they pimping with MJ? Madonna.
I think Prince also has to be on the list - really of the 3 I would say Prince is probably the most influential on other people's work - but you're totally right. |
The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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rattran
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Unreasonable
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To those calling MJ a pedophile: how do you know this for certain? He was exonerated of charges and never have any those charges stuck…
…granted, his behavior and actions were downright creepy, but to assert the allegations as truth is nothing more than playing God…
And OJ never killed anyone. |
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Fabricated
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~Living the Dream~
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"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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Sjofn
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Posts: 8286
Truckasaurus Hands
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I was about to make a post about the only comparable (and equally fucked up but in different ways) pop singer was Madonna. And then I saw Apocrypha's post, and then I went to Amazon and lo and behold what are they pimping with MJ? Madonna.
I think Prince also has to be on the list - really of the 3 I would say Prince is probably the most influential on other people's work - but you're totally right. I think an argument could be made that MJ paved the way for Prince to really exist. Not that I think MJ >>>> Prince as far as influence goes, but I do think MJ made Prince, as PRINCE, possible. |
God Save the Horn Players
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chargerrich
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Where is the love for Ed McMahon. Hahahah YES!! You are correct, sir!~ HEY Oooooooh! |
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chargerrich
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To those calling MJ a pedophile: how do you know this for certain? He was exonerated of charges and never have any those charges stuck…
…granted, his behavior and actions were downright creepy, but to assert the allegations as truth is nothing more than playing God…
He made two settlement counter offers in 1993 during his first accusation, then had another trial in what 2003? Oh and now that he is dead, I expect one or both of the "Corey's" to talk... probably Haim since he seems more desperate for money/attention.  Where's theres smoke and all... |
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« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 01:55:34 PM by chargerrich »
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Ingmar
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I was about to make a post about the only comparable (and equally fucked up but in different ways) pop singer was Madonna. And then I saw Apocrypha's post, and then I went to Amazon and lo and behold what are they pimping with MJ? Madonna.
I think Prince also has to be on the list - really of the 3 I would say Prince is probably the most influential on other people's work - but you're totally right. I think an argument could be made that MJ paved the way for Prince to really exist. Not that I think MJ >>>> Prince as far as influence goes, but I do think MJ made Prince, as PRINCE, possible. Naw, Off the Wall and Prince came out the same year. They probably cross-pollinated a lot in terms of influence of course, but I don't hear a lot of Jackson 5 influence in Prince's stuff and that's really the only way MJ was 'first' on anything. |
The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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MrHat
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Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
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Sjofn
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Posts: 8286
Truckasaurus Hands
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I was about to make a post about the only comparable (and equally fucked up but in different ways) pop singer was Madonna. And then I saw Apocrypha's post, and then I went to Amazon and lo and behold what are they pimping with MJ? Madonna.
I think Prince also has to be on the list - really of the 3 I would say Prince is probably the most influential on other people's work - but you're totally right. I think an argument could be made that MJ paved the way for Prince to really exist. Not that I think MJ >>>> Prince as far as influence goes, but I do think MJ made Prince, as PRINCE, possible. Naw, Off the Wall and Prince came out the same year. They probably cross-pollinated a lot in terms of influence of course, but I don't hear a lot of Jackson 5 influence in Prince's stuff and that's really the only way MJ was 'first' on anything. No, what I mean is that Michael Jackson paved the way for Prince to BE influencial. Not JUST him, and I'm not dismissing Prince's talent here, but I think without Michael Jackson being OMGPOPULAR with Thriller, Purple Rain might not have been so HELO LET ME BE A GIANT INFLUENCE ON A BAJILLION YOUNG MUSICIANS. Bah, I'm probably not making sense. But I do think Michael Jackson paved the way for people to be READY for shit like Prince. |
God Save the Horn Players
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Ironwood
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To those calling MJ a pedophile: how do you know this for certain? He was exonerated of charges and never have any those charges stuck…
…granted, his behavior and actions were downright creepy, but to assert the allegations as truth is nothing more than playing God…
Oh please. Let's all dance once again around the hyperbole. |
"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Ingmar
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Auto Assault Affectionado
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I was about to make a post about the only comparable (and equally fucked up but in different ways) pop singer was Madonna. And then I saw Apocrypha's post, and then I went to Amazon and lo and behold what are they pimping with MJ? Madonna.
I think Prince also has to be on the list - really of the 3 I would say Prince is probably the most influential on other people's work - but you're totally right. I think an argument could be made that MJ paved the way for Prince to really exist. Not that I think MJ >>>> Prince as far as influence goes, but I do think MJ made Prince, as PRINCE, possible. Naw, Off the Wall and Prince came out the same year. They probably cross-pollinated a lot in terms of influence of course, but I don't hear a lot of Jackson 5 influence in Prince's stuff and that's really the only way MJ was 'first' on anything. No, what I mean is that Michael Jackson paved the way for Prince to BE influencial. Not JUST him, and I'm not dismissing Prince's talent here, but I think without Michael Jackson being OMGPOPULAR with Thriller, Purple Rain might not have been so HELO LET ME BE A GIANT INFLUENCE ON A BAJILLION YOUNG MUSICIANS. Bah, I'm probably not making sense. But I do think Michael Jackson paved the way for people to be READY for shit like Prince. Maaaaaaaaaaaybe. But 1999 sold 3 million copies and came out a month before Thriller, so its hard to say... |
The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Signe
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Muse.
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I wonder how well Michael Jackson would have done without Quincy Jones. He didn't seem to do quite as well after Quincy Jones. I suppose it's a shame that Michael Jackson didn't live long enough to dangle his grandchildren from a balcony, though. We all have different opinions, I suppose, but I just can't quite wrap my head around his particular brand of weirdness.
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My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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Sjofn
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8286
Truckasaurus Hands
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I was about to make a post about the only comparable (and equally fucked up but in different ways) pop singer was Madonna. And then I saw Apocrypha's post, and then I went to Amazon and lo and behold what are they pimping with MJ? Madonna.
I think Prince also has to be on the list - really of the 3 I would say Prince is probably the most influential on other people's work - but you're totally right. I think an argument could be made that MJ paved the way for Prince to really exist. Not that I think MJ >>>> Prince as far as influence goes, but I do think MJ made Prince, as PRINCE, possible. Naw, Off the Wall and Prince came out the same year. They probably cross-pollinated a lot in terms of influence of course, but I don't hear a lot of Jackson 5 influence in Prince's stuff and that's really the only way MJ was 'first' on anything. No, what I mean is that Michael Jackson paved the way for Prince to BE influencial. Not JUST him, and I'm not dismissing Prince's talent here, but I think without Michael Jackson being OMGPOPULAR with Thriller, Purple Rain might not have been so HELO LET ME BE A GIANT INFLUENCE ON A BAJILLION YOUNG MUSICIANS. Bah, I'm probably not making sense. But I do think Michael Jackson paved the way for people to be READY for shit like Prince. Maaaaaaaaaaaybe. But 1999 sold 3 million copies and came out a month before Thriller, so its hard to say... Ha ha, the fact I got you to say maybe means I totally win, you stubborn bastard.  |
God Save the Horn Players
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42666
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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I wonder how well Michael Jackson would have done without Quincy Jones. This. Quincy Jones, Barry Gordy and MTV are the reasons Michael Jackson are "influential." Just because a generation of retarded no-talent hacks have tried to make their living off copying Jackson's moves does not make his music influential. His music was retreaded disco turned pop, with a whole shitload of showbiz glitz added on. Prince was more musically influential, and Jackson's music influences came from Quincy Fucking Jones. Michael Jackson could dance. He could sing. I can't say much about his music beyond that. |
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naum
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4263
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To those calling MJ a pedophile: how do you know this for certain? He was exonerated of charges and never have any those charges stuck…
…granted, his behavior and actions were downright creepy, but to assert the allegations as truth is nothing more than playing God…
He made two settlement counter offers in 1993 during his first accusation, then had another trial in what 2003? Oh and now that he is dead, I expect one of both of the "Corey's" to talk... probably Haim since he seems more desperate for money/attention. Where's theres smoke and all... In that trial, he was found innocent. Regarding the settlement offers, it could well be that he wanted to keep his creepiness secret, creepiness that did not include boy sex or perhaps other weirdness he did not want exposed to public that would come to light at a trial… …you do not know for sure, so you are making an ASSUMPTION. Speculation that is paramount to libel/slander… Granted, he placed himself in scenarios that absolutely guaranteed accusations like this would come about, irrespective of whether they are true or not… At least OJ got a civil pronouncement… |
"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
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Velorath
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To those calling MJ a pedophile: how do you know this for certain? He was exonerated of charges and never have any those charges stuck…
…granted, his behavior and actions were downright creepy, but to assert the allegations as truth is nothing more than playing God…
And OJ never killed anyone. To me, child molestation is pretty much one of the worst things you can be accused of. Even if you're completely innocent, just being accused of it seems to follow people around for the rest of their lives (and as we can see here, even after deat). Like I said, you can't deny the guy was odd, but he was fairly up front about it. Doesn't make him a child molester. If the extent of your knowledge about his court cases is that you caught the news on TV every now and then when it was going on, kindly fuck off with that shit. |
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naum
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4263
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To those calling MJ a pedophile: how do you know this for certain? He was exonerated of charges and never have any those charges stuck…
…granted, his behavior and actions were downright creepy, but to assert the allegations as truth is nothing more than playing God…
And OJ never killed anyone. Yeah, you're Judge Judy and Executioner… |
"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
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