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Author Topic: Is Shaq too old to matter?  (Read 8760 times)
Nebu
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on: June 25, 2009, 12:46:29 PM

Cleveland acquired Shaq today in an attempt to strengthen their middle.  Is he too old to make a difference?  Signs point to YES, but this may be enough to help LeBron get the ring that he's wanted. 

In any event, I thought this was a very interesting move. 

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Evildrider
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Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 02:37:39 PM

Is he old?  He's getting up there, however.. I think with the Cavs he might have a good chance to shine.  He may not be the top center in the game anymore but he's still damn good.  Paired with James there's a good chance he can be enough help to go to the Finals again next year.
Montague
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Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 02:48:57 PM

I think the bigger question is can he play in Brown's defense-first system. The Cavs won 66 games because the entire team bought into it and it works. The first time Shaq gets ornery and doesn't feel like banging around on defense because he's not getting 15 shots a game what happens then?

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ghost
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Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 05:18:12 PM

Old Shaq = very large anchor in a rickety boat.
Trippy
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Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 05:58:28 PM

I think the bigger question is can he play in Brown's defense-first system. The Cavs won 66 games because the entire team bought into it and it works. The first time Shaq gets ornery and doesn't feel like banging around on defense because he's not getting 15 shots a game what happens then?
Is doesn't matter what Shaq does during the regular season. As long as James doesn't get injured for an extended period of time they will get to the playoffs. At that point Shaq's job will be to stop or slow down people like Dwight Howard whom the Cavs had no answer for in the playoffs. Can he still do that and will he want to? I dunno since I don't watch much basketball but if I had to guess I would say he can and will as long as he's not injured as the allure of another Championship and the possibility of beating Kobe for it will drive him in the playoffs even if he spends much of the regular season goofing off.
Evildrider
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Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009, 06:37:57 PM

Shaq tends to play harder when he's with people he likes.  I think the chance of playing with James will motivate him.
cmlancas
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Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009, 07:55:47 PM

Shaq tends to play harder when he's with people he likes.  I think the chance of playing with James will motivate him.

I think this is true.  Even if Shaq can only give a good two quarters a game, if I'm Cleveland, I'd rather have two quarters with him than without him.

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Paelos
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Reply #7 on: June 25, 2009, 08:18:07 PM

I heard Shaq was going to broadcasting school. Yet, here's this.  why so serious?

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dusematic
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Reply #8 on: June 25, 2009, 08:21:17 PM

This was a bad move.  Cleveland lost the series because they couldn't defend the pick and roll.  At this point, Shaq couldn't defend the pick and roll if SirBruce and I were running it.  Besides, this is in the style of a February desperation move (before the trade deadline) to shore up the team for the playoffs.  Weird trade in June.  Day late and a dollar short.  

This guarantees LeBron is peacing out of Cleveland in 2010.
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Reply #9 on: June 25, 2009, 08:31:56 PM

This guarantees LeBron is peacing out of Cleveland in 2010.

I think the fact that he's awesome and the rest of his team is a bunch of pathetic chokers did that.

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dusematic
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Reply #10 on: June 25, 2009, 08:49:22 PM

Uh not really.  They needed another piece.  They just didn't need Shaq. 
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Reply #11 on: June 25, 2009, 10:09:31 PM

Cleveland is hopeless. God help the fans there. They are all doomed and they know it, and it's in one of the least fun states in the union. If Lebron has a brain in his head, he's out no matter what happens.

Shaq joining up is like adding duck tape to the bumper that's falling off. It'll last a few miles, but it's not gonna make it long term.

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stray
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Reply #12 on: June 26, 2009, 05:48:26 AM

As long as big men are fairly healthy, they've always matter. Hell, even Moses Malone and Kareem mattered in their last, sluggish years.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #13 on: June 27, 2009, 06:45:12 PM

How often has one HOF big man ended up playing with 3 different HOF wingmen on 3 different teams in their prime? (Bryant, Wade, James)
Chimpy
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Reply #14 on: June 28, 2009, 12:38:56 PM

How many hall of fame caliber big men have played for more than 2 teams in their entire careers?


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Azuredream
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Reply #15 on: June 28, 2009, 02:25:12 PM

Cleveland is hopeless. God help the fans there. They are all doomed and they know it, and it's in one of the least fun states in the union. If Lebron has a brain in his head, he's out no matter what happens.

Shaq joining up is like adding duck tape to the bumper that's falling off. It'll last a few miles, but it's not gonna make it long term.

And still, Cleveland can offer LeBron the most money, he's so high profile it doesn't matter where he plays, and he has no better shot at winning anywhere else (cough, New York, cough) than he does in Cleveland. Why do people forget this? You buy into media hype often?

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Evildrider
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Reply #16 on: June 28, 2009, 02:46:03 PM

How many hall of fame caliber big men have played for more than 2 teams in their entire careers?



Patrick Ewing
Moses Malone
Bill Walton
Robert Parish
Ben Wallace
Dikembe Mutumbo
 why so serious?
Ratama
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Reply #17 on: June 28, 2009, 03:07:34 PM

The recent collective bargaining agreements also makes musical-team stuff more likely for star-quality players now than the Old Days.

And still, Cleveland can offer LeBron the most money, he's so high profile it doesn't matter where he plays, and he has no better shot at winning anywhere else (cough, New York, cough) than he does in Cleveland. Why do people forget this? You buy into media hype often?
You don't actually believe what you just wrote, do you? 

Ferry's fucked up Lebron's stay in Cleveland from day one; where is the core of young guys he's supposed to grow old/win multiple championships with?  Ferry's just thrown bandaid after bandaid at Lebron; if I were him, I'd actually be pissed.  They don't trade Wally for Shaq when they had the chance before last year's playoffs, but instead make said deal after it cost them a championship, AND have to use other pieces to make said trade that might have been turned into, say, Randy Foye or another quality young player (they'd have to take back a shitty contract, but w/e; again, should have been going for quality young players years ago, instead of trying to Win Now).

Lebron's gone; not because the city of Cleveland isn't good enough for him, but because the Cavaliers aren't.

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Evildrider
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Reply #18 on: June 28, 2009, 03:10:02 PM

The only way James stays is if they win it all next year.  If not he's gone.  However, he is a money whore.. so they could possible through him enough cash.
Ratama
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Reply #19 on: June 28, 2009, 03:27:23 PM

He really would make more money overall playing in NY, though.

What, exactly, would keep him in Cleveland in terms of BB, even if they win a title next year?  They don't have anyone of any significance under contract after this upcoming year.  Why wouldn't he go to NY w/Bosh and/or Wade?  Or even Portland, if his #1 concern is # of championships; Lebron to Portland = might as well shut down the league for the next 10 years.

Anyway, it's gonna be NY; look what D'Antoni's offense does to the numbers of the guys that play for him.  If Lebron plays 10 years for him, he usurps Jordan's legacy as the great swingman of modern basketball, while playing in arguably the greatest city in the history of our species.  He'd be crazy to waste the prime of his career playing for the current Cav ownership/management.

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Ratama
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Reply #20 on: June 28, 2009, 03:32:50 PM

Actually, thinking about it, I'd guess that winning a title in Cleveland next year would make Lebron MORE likely to leave; if he wins a title next year with Creaky Shaq, he can leave for NY, while still (rightfully) claiming that he did more than his share in Cleveland, and that the management there didn't get enough together for him to come back to.

The Cav's owner and Ferry then become the villains, not Lebron...  I bet Lebron desperately wants to win a title next year so he CAN leave without reeking of Job Undone.

Spare the rod, spoil the dev.
Azuredream
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Reply #21 on: June 28, 2009, 03:35:06 PM

He really would make more money overall playing in NY, though.

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ghost
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Reply #22 on: June 28, 2009, 03:44:04 PM

The only way James stays is if they win it all next year.  If not he's gone.  However, he is a money whore.. so they could possible through him enough cash.

I don't think so.  He knows they won't be able to afford anyone else to go around him if he gets what he's worth, which means LA, Boston, Knickerbockers and that's about it.
Evildrider
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Reply #23 on: June 28, 2009, 08:04:11 PM

Remember this is the same guy that said he'd go play in Europe if the offer was big enough.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Montague
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Reply #24 on: June 30, 2009, 10:19:39 AM

Anyway, it's gonna be NY; look what D'Antoni's offense does to the numbers of the guys that play for him.  If Lebron plays 10 years for him, he usurps Jordan's legacy as the great swingman of modern basketball, while playing in arguably the greatest city in the history of our species.  He'd be crazy to waste the prime of his career playing for the current Cav ownership/management.

If you think Lebron cares about his numbers you haven't been following him very much. He knows defense wins championships, so the odds of him going to the Knicks with D'Antoni there are slim and none, despite what the New York media would have you believe. That doesn't mean he won't leave Cleveland, but I seriously doubt he goes to the post Isiah train wreck in New York to score 40 a game.

Quote
Dusematic: This was a bad move.  Cleveland lost the series because they couldn't defend the pick and roll.  At this point, Shaq couldn't defend the pick and roll if SirBruce and I were running it.  Besides, this is in the style of a February desperation move (before the trade deadline) to shore up the team for the playoffs.  Weird trade in June.  Day late and a dollar short. 

This guarantees LeBron is peacing out of Cleveland in 2010.

Cavs can defend the pick and roll just fine. They couldn't defend it with Howard inside because he was abusing Ilgauskas/Joe Smith and they had to sag off to deny the passing lanes. They would have had the same problem with the Lakers and Bynum. I don't see how this is a desperation move when they got a better center than Z by giving Phoenix some cash and a pair of sweat pants. 



 


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Morfiend
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Reply #25 on: July 03, 2009, 10:34:15 AM

So, seems like the Lakers are going to be getting Ron Artest. I think this is a two fold purpose. It keeps Ron from going to Cleveland, which was his other choice, and it helps improve the Lakers.

I will be sad to see Ariza go, as I really warmed up to him, but I think if Ron can find his spot, he will be a great help to the Lakers next year.
Ratama
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Reply #26 on: July 03, 2009, 03:57:02 PM

My problem with the Lakers going with Artest > Ariza is that they'll end up with too many players on the downhill slope of their careers at once in a couple years.  Is Artest a huge upgrade over Ariza 2 years from now?  Artest is an upgrade over the 2008/2009 Ariza... but the 2009/2010 Ariza would be, too.  I mean, they're already good enough to win a title (dur), so why not grow some younger players on your roster than have already proven they can get the job done?

And speaking of the Cavs:

Quote
If you think Lebron cares about his numbers you haven't been following him very much.
EVERY player in the NBA cares about stats, to one degree or another; the 12th guy on the Grizzlies' bench cares about his stats, and ditto for everyone else above him in the league.

He's not resigning with the Cavs.  LA won't have cap room (and he won't play for the Clips), and David Stern would have Paul Allen assassinated rather than let a small-market team win the next 8  or so titles, so Portland is out.  That leaves NY, and D'Antoni's stat-inflating, player-friendly, legend-making offense (hi, Steve Nash).

Lebron's going to choose to go score 40 points a game and go down as arguably the greatest player in NBA history, while playing in the largest media market in the world.

Spare the rod, spoil the dev.
Mosesandstick
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Reply #27 on: July 04, 2009, 12:43:38 PM

Wow. Ron-ron working with Kobe and the triangle offense? I'm really, really, intrigued to see how Artest fits in offensively. Defensively he's a no-brainer.
Arnold
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Reply #28 on: July 04, 2009, 06:30:25 PM

Say what you want about Ron, but at least he doesn't have a douchebaggy tat on his neck.
Threash
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Reply #29 on: July 05, 2009, 12:05:29 PM

In other news, did Hedo Turkoglu turn into Lebron James while i wasn't looking? Toronto had to let go of about half their roster, including shawn marion to offer him a bit over 50 mil for 5 years.  As much as i like the Turkmeister thats just insane, they are going to have to eat the last three years of that contract and Bosh is outta there anyways.

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Reply #30 on: July 05, 2009, 04:24:52 PM

Artest is a baller...I respect him a lot for that..  but he has the shittiest attitude outside of Starbury (whom I also respect). I don't see it working (not long at least). Especially with Kobe.
Evildrider
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Reply #31 on: July 05, 2009, 07:04:32 PM

Artest is a baller...I respect him a lot for that..  but he has the shittiest attitude outside of Starbury (whom I also respect). I don't see it working (not long at least). Especially with Kobe.

I'm pretty sure that Kobe was one of the guys pushing for Artest.
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