Critique My Home Workout Please!

[Teleku]

Do you do your lifts explosive then?

Not sure what you mean here.  I usually do my sets in volume training fashion (5 sets of each exercise, set 1 at 80% effort, set 2 at 90%, sets 3-5 at max to failure).  I add at least 5 lbs to my max every week for large muscle group exercises to keep my muscles challenged. 

How exactly do you work the "To failure" thing?  Are you attempting the same amount of reps for the first 2 sets, but then just keep going until your arms give out for the final 3, adding more and more weight each time?  Also, how long do you wait between sets and exercises?  I have a hard time attempting this method without blowing out my arms and being unable to lift anything else afterwards, heh.

Going to be starting a new workout myself soon.

[Nebu]

How exactly do you work the "To failure" thing?  Are you attempting the same amount of reps for the first 2 sets, but then just keep going until your arms give out for the final 3, adding more and more weight each time?  Also, how long do you wait between sets and exercises?  I have a hard time attempting this method without blowing out my arms and being unable to lift anything else afterwards, heh.

Most of the time this requires a spotter (second person) unless you are using dumbells... even then a spotter may be required. 

To build muscle, you need to tell your body that your current build is insuficient for the task.  You do this by taxing your muscles to the point of failure.  By "failure" I mean that you cannot complete the last rep.  For best results, you want to fail on the second or third to last rep so that you get some assist on those reps to get the most out of your breakdown.  In my personal workouts, I try to do 5 reps at max weight.  Often I can get 5 on the first set and then 3 or 4 on the remaining.  If I can do 5 reps for each of the last three sets, it means that I'm not taxing myself enough and I add weight.

[K9]

1) I lift in the early afternoon and run either first thing in the morning (best) or late at night according to the demands of my work schedule. 

2) I change my workout routine every 10-12 weeks.  Your body adapts to your workouts, so even if you lift to failure you will still have long plateaus if you don't.

Hope that answers the questions.  Keep in mind that I'm in my 40's.  I have to workout pretty damn hard to stay as fit as you young guys. 

Thanks, that was what I was wondering. I've never heard of lifting to failure except in the context of doing supersets. Do you see this as a style of workout, or more of a type of exercise.

So it seems your overriding goal is "to get stronger".  As such, unless you want the possible aerobic benefits, you don't really have a need for any cardio at this time.  It may actually be counter-prodcutive, as it may lead to a calorie deficit.  Which makes it harder to build muscle and gain strength.  That's why I was asking.  

If you're at the point that the returns are diminishing a bit too much, then maybe it's time to consider something else.  That said, I'd personally be inclined to milk a working program for nearly all that it's worth.  I'm on a linear program right now (5x5), so it will probably be easier to see when I hit the wall.  

Out of curiosity, how much do you weigh?  I find your specific goals interesting, in that my own ratios are so different...i.e. I need a bit of work before I'll be able to military press my own weigth, can very easily bench my own weight and a lot more, and am nowhere close yet on deadlifts.

Strength is my main goal yes. I am somewhat loathe to skip cardio entirely, as I feel a complete workout is important, although I agree with the calorie deficit comment (although I have never thought of it in such exact terms). I walk or bike 2.5miles in and out of work every day, so I am not completely idle in that regard, however increasingly I am splitting cardio sessions apart from weight sessions, which I think is probably for the best.

As far as programs go, I have switched to 5x5 about a month ago and I think I'm starting to see benefit. The difficulty I have is knowing how to balance sets of exercises within a workout. However as summer comes up and my evenings become a little more free due to holidays I would like to develop a more rigorous exercise pattern.

I weigh 91kg (200lbs, 6'1/2") and I'm maxing at around 82.5 kg (181lb) on the shoulder press. My bench is poor because frankly I don't enjoy it, so I neglect it, I currently rep around 75(165lb) without a spot fairly safely, but find that beyond that my performance drops drastically. Deadlifts I can rep ~130kp quite comfortably when fresh, but I can see a lot of potential for improvement there. I find that relating goals to my body weight helps me work towards them more than just an arbitrary number. I can envisage doing handstand pressups easier than lifting a 90 kilo weight over my head for example. The goals I have achieved in the last 14 months were to be able to do 3 sets of 8 chin ups with no difificulty and the same for dips. Dips were probably the easiest of the bunch in hindsight, and I think deadlifts will be the hardest as I reckon I will hit a wall around 150kg.

[Nebu]

Thanks, that was what I was wondering. I've never heard of lifting to failure except in the context of doing supersets. Do you see this as a style of workout, or more of a type of exercise.

I see it as a means to an end.  Working to failure with high weight and low reps is the best way to increase gains.  If you want to build strength and mass, this is the way to do it.  Doing 10-12 reps of an exercise accomplishes little more than increasing endurance with very moderate strength/size gains.  If you want to get bigger and stronger, you need to have VERY intense workouts.  Intense to the point of serious muscle pain and fatigue (without causing injury). 

The first set or two of my 5 is always meant to be a warmup.  It helps prepare me for the heavier weight.  I also spend 10 mins stretching before a workout. 

[K9]

Do you not have problems maintaining form? One of the reasons I'm liking 5x5 at the moment is that it pushes me hard, but I'm almost always maintaining good form. Maybe it depends on the type of lift you are doing.

[Cyrrex]

The difficulty I have is knowing how to balance sets of exercises within a workout. However as summer comes up and my evenings become a little more free due to holidays I would like to develop a more rigorous exercise pattern.

K9, this statement is confusing me a little, but maybe I'm not reading it correctly.  As mentioned, I too am doing a 5x5.  I might be completely OCD about it, but what it means is that I am following a VERY EXACTING plan.  I can literally tell you exactly what I will be bench pressing three weeks from Friday on my 3rd set out of 5....assuming I don't fail on anything between now and then.  I actually have a spreadsheet covering every single lift I will make.  It's as specific as it can possibly be.  The whole point is that it increases all of your Personal Bests in a very linear and exacting fashion.  Except for my Wednesday squats, every other 5th set I perform is some kind of Personal Best.  That's the whole point.

Is that what you're doing?  If not, you need to rethink your 5x5.  It's plenty taxing, I promise.  If this is what you're doing, feel free to call me a dickface.

[Nebu]

Do you not have problems maintaining form?

If you don't have good form with heavy weight, you WILL get injured.  Even to failure it is important to maintain proper form.  Sadly, many in the gym don't follow this... often suffering the consequences. 

[K9]

The difficulty I have is knowing how to balance sets of exercises within a workout. However as summer comes up and my evenings become a little more free due to holidays I would like to develop a more rigorous exercise pattern.

K9, this statement is confusing me a little, but maybe I'm not reading it correctly.  As mentioned, I too am doing a 5x5.  I might be completely OCD about it, but what it means is that I am following a VERY EXACTING plan.  I can literally tell you exactly what I will be bench pressing three weeks from Friday on my 3rd set out of 5....assuming I don't fail on anything between now and then.  I actually have a spreadsheet covering every single lift I will make.  It's as specific as it can possibly be.  The whole point is that it increases all of your Personal Bests in a very linear and exacting fashion.  Except for my Wednesday squats, every other 5th set I perform is some kind of Personal Best.  That's the whole point.

Is that what you're doing?  If not, you need to rethink your 5x5.  It's plenty taxing, I promise.  If this is what you're doing, feel free to call me a dickface.

I might be the one being a dickface. To me 5x5 means a programme where you do exercises as 5 sets of 5 reps at around 85% of your max. When I say I lack rigour I mean that from week to week I will not always work the same muscles on the same day, nor do exactly the same exercises each time. So for instance, I've just got in from the gym where I did 4x8 chinups and 5x9 weightless squats as warmup, then 5x 5reps of powercleans (60-70kg), 5x 5reps of bent over rows (67.5kg), 5x 5 reps of seated rows (80kg) and then I gave upright rows with a 25kg plate to failure for three sets to see what it was like. Now with most of the sets my form is great for 3, passable for the 4th and then starting to go on the 5th, which I believe is the idea behind the system. I may be completely wrong though, in which case I welcome corrections and comments.

For my weekly back workout I may substitute in deadlifts, snatches or good mornings and various exercises with the cable machine depending on my mood. This is broadly what I mean by my lack of discipline in the pattern of my exercises. I normally aim to do 5 different types of exercise, working compound -> isolation, but I don't always do the same 5.

[Cyrrex]

Okay, understood.  You should consider doing one of the literal 5x5 programs.  Here's the one I do (unavailable at the moment, but check back later):

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

If you follow it, it will force you into setting records and constantly improving.  In the roughly 6 weeks I have been doing it (not counting the first couple weeks of acclimation), I have been adding around 5 pounds to each of my records every week, without fail.  The key is to follow it exactly, and don't change shit around EVER.

The only thing I do in addition is that add stuff for the weekend:

Saturday:
5x5 Incline Presses (I do Military on Wednesdays)
Weighted situps (I do these every day I workout)
Lat Pull downs (I do wide grip pullups on Mondays, so this is complimentary)
Preacher curls (I do chins on Wednesdays)

Sunday:

5x5 Decline Presses
Weighted situps
Open Butterfly Presses
Tricep Pushodowns

Anyway, it works.  I continue to increase my lifts, quite literally every time I workout.

[slog]

Some things I learned about Cardio (and it took me a few years to learn it)

1) I was doing way to much of it (20+ miles a week)
2) Running 20 miles a week destroys my knees as I get older.
3) If I am trying to lose weight, Cardio is much less effective then resistance training.
4) If I build muscle mass, I can eat like a normal American and still keep my weight down. 

My Cardio now consists of doing the elliptical once a week. YMMV.

Note: I came down with Vasculitis a few years ago, and it sort of left me with arthritis in my knees.

[Cyrrex]

Makes sense to me.  I've actually started some cardio once again, as I'm back to my cutting phase.  I do it for two reasons:  one, so that I can burn more calories so that I don't have to starve myself while cutting.  I still lift according to the same schedule above, with some minor tweaks.

Two, and most importantly, because I just feel better when I'm in good cardio shape.  I usually just do about 20 minutes of kickboxing a day (which is awesome for several reasons) and I'll start cycling a little when the stupid weather improves.  Basketball ad-hoc.

[Teleku]

Why Thank You internet!

[stray]

deadlifts, snatches or good mornings

heh.. i've resorted to little but this currently. and having good posture in general. :P

i'll go back to regular exercise once i know my lower back is like superman's. and to slightly keep it on topic, i think if anybody is out of shape, they probably should be doing the same. whether they're skinny or obese. personally, i've lost too much weight. not good.

anyhow, take your time on the big plan. just build your back and core first.

[Slayerik]

Ok, well ... about two months in and here is what I currently do

Monday -

3 x Flat Bench Press
3 x Dumbbell Kickbacks
3 x Flys
3 x skullcrushers
3 x Incline Dumbbell Press

Wednesday

3 x Barbell Curl (Curl bar)
3 x Vertical arm raise
3 x Shoulder Shrug
3 x Preacher Curl
3 x Bent Over Row
3 x Lateral Arm Raise
3 x Military Press


Overall it's a fairly light workout, but I have noticed solid improvement. I am getting compliments now when my shirt is off, my man boobs are starting to look like pecs again. My biceps are swoll. Best part is, I was at Kid rock wearing a tight t-shirt when a hot blonde in the seat behind me started chatting me up, then rubbing on my shoulders asking if I worked out (she said she could tell). About 15 minutes after that we were all over each other. Go booze and concerts!

That is my main reason for working out. That and I carry myself with better posture and have more confidence in my looks. Confidence is everything with ladies.

[MrHat]

Congrats man.

Is it just the 2 days a week you are working out?

5x5 on everything?

How much cardio are you supplementing, if at all?

[Slayerik]

Thanks Hat.

Yes, just the two days. It has been hard keeping my workout partner motivated, but we haven't missed one.

The cardio I get is from the workout itself , and sex.  ;)

Not sure what you mean by 5x5...

For my presses I try to keep the weight where I am doing 6-8 reps per set. I'm trying to still build muscle mass before switching over to around 10-12 reps to tone. The lighter dumbbell stuff, like the shoulders and kickbacks, I don't move weight much just allow myself more reps to tone.

[schild]

lol

You went to a kid rock concert.

[stray]

I'm sure Nebu will say this (and has), but you should just concentrate on one or other. Bulk up now, up the ante a little every week, eat a bunch, rest, enjoy yourself. Cardio later. Err, unless your real goal is simply cardio? Then just do that.

[edit] Just to add, I'm in no position to really give advice, so I don't want to sound like a know-it-all... Nebu is the man here, I think.. But I've done what you're doing before. There are better ways to bulk and better ways for cardio.

[Sky]

There is no better cardio than sex.

[K9]

Congrats man, keep up the good work. You got any plans to adjust or vary the workout, or is this the routine you find the most fun and effective?

I also look forward to your cover of this  

[Draegan]

I've just started a high rep 60% weight routine.  Same basic exercises that I vary week to week but I do three sets of 20 but at around 60% of max weight.

See if it helps me.  I'm finding it difficult to get a good pec workout with Chest days but I'm doing the correct workout regime.
Hmm.

[Slayerik]

lol

You went to a kid rock concert.

Fuck yeah I did.

with Cypress Hill and Alice in Chains. And about 10,000 hot chicks :)

[Rasix]

 

[stray]

Uh, Alice in Chains doesn't exist anymore. Not to me they don't! 

[K9]

I'm finding it difficult to get a good pec workout with Chest days but I'm doing the correct workout regime.

Have you tried weighted dips, or even just regular dips?

[NiX]

Anyone know a good site to show proper form? My friend gave me a workout to do, but I'm not too up on proper form doing the specific exercises.

[Arnold]

Anyone know a good site to show proper form? My friend gave me a workout to do, but I'm not too up on proper form doing the specific exercises.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html


I haven't seen too many of the demos, but the ones I have seen have been good.  I scrolled down to see who did the bench press demonstration and it was by a guy who wrote an excellent book on lifting that includes 40 pages dedicated to the bench press.

[Slayerik]

Uh, Alice in Chains doesn't exist anymore. Not to me they don't! 

Well, I saw them at Lollapalooza 93 and am a real fan as well. Still good to hear em live.

[NiX]

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html


I haven't seen too many of the demos, but the ones I have seen have been good.  I scrolled down to see who did the bench press demonstration and it was by a guy who wrote an excellent book on lifting that includes 40 pages dedicated to the bench press.

Heh, funny I didn't think to go there because my friend who gave me the workout works at a Crossfit gym.

[Draegan]

I'm finding it difficult to get a good pec workout with Chest days but I'm doing the correct workout regime.

Have you tried weighted dips, or even just regular dips?

Yup.

Typical Chest/Tri workout is something like this:

Bench Press,
Incline and Decline Fly or Press depending on machine/weight availability.

Then I do some rope pulldowns, kickbacks, dips

Then I move on to the cables and do elevated, horizontal, and low cable flys then perhaps some single cable pushdowns for my tris.

That make sense?
I usually do 4 sets for the initial exercise in a muscle group followed by 3 sets for every other exercise.  Typical reps are 15,12,10,8 for the 4 sets, and 12 10 10 for the 3 sets.

[Cyrrex]

To put on mass (read: muscle), you want HEAVY weights with fewer reps.  That's sorta what a 5x5 is all about...5 sets of 5 reps, where you increase weight until you are at your 5 rep maximum weight.  A good linear program will have you setting a new personal best of some kind with every 5th set you perform.

Toning is a misnomer.  You can either build muscle or lose fat.  If you want to build muscle, read my first sentence from above.  If you want to "tone" (lose fat), then do more cardio.  Doing a greater number of reps with less weight is an inefficient way to build muscle...the only thing it will do for you is make you good at lifting that particular amount of weight.  If your body feels that it doesn't need the big muscle mass to move the heaviest weights, then it will begin to metabolize those muscles.  Muscle is built by showing said muscles their current limits, and supplying them the fuel (food) to build enough to break through those limits.

If you mean "toning" in the sense of targeting specific muscles and working on them specifically, well, okay.  Just be aware that this should be done as an exception, and still with heavy weights.  The best exercises are always COMPOUND lifts...you need to be moving more than one joint, and therefore, more than one muscle group at a time, in order to get the maximum effect.

[Slayerik]

Thanks, this may be basic stuff that I just never learned or was taught the wrong shit.

5 x 5 huh? Might be trying that tonight, thanks.

[K9]

You can either build muscle or lose fat.  If you want to build muscle, read my first sentence from above.  If you want to "tone" (lose fat), then do more cardio.

Building muscle mass will enable you to shed excess fat more efficiently though, in parallel with mid-intensity cardio; so I don't see it as an either-or thing. I agree though that overall though you get the most benefit from doing lower reps with higher weight.

I'm slightly torn on high-rep stuff; going for big weights hasn't offered me any improvement in stamina that doing high-rep activities do. For example, upping my bench doesn't improve my ability to do high numbers of repetitions of an excercise such as push-ups. I realise the two activities are not entirely equivalent, but you get the idea. I'm trying to include a day a week where I do weightless exercises (various push up, handstand presses, dips, chins etc) aiming for reps to failure in most cases. I'll see how it goes, I'd like to develop more stamina as well as strength.

Thanks, this may be basic stuff that I just never learned or was taught the wrong shit.

5 x 5 huh? Might be trying that tonight, thanks.

I think a general rule of thumb is that any lift where you can do 12+ reps, or where you aren't tired at the end of a set (excluding warm-ups of course) you are not lifting enough weight. Ideally once warmed up you should be doing sets where you are struggling by the last rep in the set, and that should be after 4-8 reps. Of course, always be careful and if you are doing exercises close to your limit always make sure you have a spot, don't take chances and get pinned under a bar you can't lift.

Also, I've always stuck to the principle that you should do compound exercises before isolation exercises.

[Cyrrex]

It is true that adding muscle will help you to shed fat more quickly, simply because having increased muscle mass will also increase your metabolism (your muscles need to eat, after all).  The point is, doing both the weight training and cardio at the same time is less efficient if you are trying to put on muscle.  Your body needs to be in caloric excess in order for it to build muscle at night during sleepy time (note:  you better be getting close to 8 hours of solid sleep).  Doing cardio uses those calories for something else and will limit your potential gains.

That said, I've said it before in this thread or one of the others:  Define Your Goal.  What are you trying to achieve?  You have to answer that question before even bothering to take any advice, including anything I've written here.

Slayerik - don't go willy nilly into a 5x5, you need an exacting plan.  I recommend this one: 

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

More than the just advice, use their spreadsheet.  Follow the lifts to the letter, and it will work...at least for a while.  Make sure you either have a rack or a spotter, because you will be at the edge of failure with heavy weights constantly.  Also, spend your first day determining your 5 rep maximums, i.e. how much weight can you lift where the 6th rep would likely fail?  That's how you determine your starting point, which they conservatively set 4 weeks short of those maximums. 

Supplement with a few isolation or other exercises as desired.  You'll probably want to throw in some crunches, pullups and dips if you can.  I tend to throw in some inclines and declines on the weekends, where I also do any isolation lifts I feel like doing.

Hope you like squats.  You eventually won't.

[stray]

Good advice.

Don't feel bad Slayerik.. Even though it is basic shit, few people seem to know it. And half of the time, the people selling advice out there go by plans that aren't even relevant to people new or fairly new to weightlifting routines (and they're probably taking drugs to boot, so their methods definitely don't help). What Cyrex or Nebu says is the bottom line basic shit, and it's only lately that I'm finally learning to just apply it myself. Muscles simply won't grow unless they're shocked into having to deal/compensate for the heavy load you're putting on them. And then progressively do more, constantly making them compensate. Eventually you'll peak and things get slower, but when guys follow this, they bulk up a lot in the starting period. The only thing he didn't mention is you simply gotta eat. A ton. Pack on the pounds.. worry about shedding fat later.