World of Tanks

[Nebu]

Forums say the KV1, BDR1, and T1 are the best non-prem cash makers.

[Merusk]

Forums also say with your win rate you're a useless pub who should uninstall.   Don't put a lot of stock in them.

Your best money maker is the tank that best suits your play style and does the most damage.  For me that's mediums, not heavies.  I make enough in my Type-59 that even shooting gold rounds I bring in 10k a match.  In my T34 I'll make 5-7k on average.  (I don't have a premium acct.)   I made a ton with the EZ8 and the other US meds, which is how I financed the heavies I have.

Remember, cash rewarded is all about damage done, which is why people push the heavies.  However, that's mitigated by cost of repairs and cost per shot.  Heavies are expensive on both those fronts.  Meds are a nice balance of survivability and quick rate of fire so you can pump a lot of shells in to targets, meaning more damage dealt.

This blog agrees: http://mmoverflow.com/2012/05/world-of-tanks-best-credit-making-tank-without-premium-account/

Credit Mechanics: http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Battle_Mechanics#Tank_Experience_and_Credits

[Nebu]

Forums also say that the Type 59 is the top earner 

I don't believe everything that I read, but I do much better at making money on the T1 than I do on the E8.  I swear that the E8 had its earning power nerfed.  I made more cash on it a year ago. 

[Strazos]

So in my final match with the Crusader before unlocking the Cromwell, I managed to come upon an isolated KV1 at close range. Thinking I would just do a drive by, I have a stroke of genius - I can probably circle-strafe the fat bastard.

...

18 shots later, I have a dead KV1, and an unlocked Cromwell.

Too bad I have way too many unlocked tanks to buy at the moment - Tiger, now a Cromwell. After having recently purchased the Hellcat and the Tier 7 American SPG. I need something like 2.5m Credits, even more if you count the Tier 7 French TD I've almost unlocked.  

Edit: hurrr, typing

[Brolan]

Forums also say that the Type 59 is the top earner 

I don't believe everything that I read, but I do much better at making money on the T1 than I do on the E8.  I swear that the E8 had its earning power nerfed.  I made more cash on it a year ago. 

I believe it was nerfed a patch or two ago.

[kildorn]

They nerfed the earning on a lot of mediums a few patches back. IIRC, every tank has a modifier on it's damage done to credits earned. It's another stupid hidden stat so that tank X doing 3,000 damage will make more credits than tank Y doing 3,000 damage (beyond just one tank being premium or not)

That said, play something tier 6-8 that you enjoy the style of in order to make money. It's the tier sweet spot for low repair costs while still being able to punch above your weight class usually.

Re: Type 59s: I'm a little amused by the forum comparing the 59 with the 34-2 straight stats wise. About the only thing the 34-2 has is a barely higher hp/ton ratio and the ability to mount the 122. It's one of the more interesting stat discrepancies between a premium and it's non premium equivalent. I've grown to sort of love my 34-2, but it really isn't better than a 59 when fully upgraded. It's more a direct equivalent with less armor. Hell, the WZ-120 is the 59's body (armor and all) and stock is basically is a 59. It just has a massive gun upgrade waiting for it.

As a side note: kind of hating the WZ-120's stock grind. The armor is paper for it's tier, and the first two guns are absolutely not threatening. The later guns are total chinese bullshit though, so here's hoping I don't uninstall before getting past that ~140k xp.

[Sir T]

Last night I had a game which reminded me why I don't play this game very much.

Logged and the first comment from the opposition was "We win!" And lots of laughter about how this was going to be a walkover, and lots of lamenting from my team about how we don't have a prayer

XVM. Which totally and completely does not affect the game you play, really. How the hell are you supposed to win a match when your team is just going through the motions because a stupid mod is telling them they only have a 36 or whatever percent chance of winning? Its a curse.

Fuck that.

[Strazos]

Soooo, don't use XVM? 

I don't even pay attention to that nonsense, I just play.

[Ginaz]

So in my final match with the Crusader before unlocking the Cromwell, I managed to come upon an isolated KV1 at close range. Thinking I would just do a drive by, I have a stroke of genius - I can probably circle-strafe the fat bastard.

...

18 shots later, I have a dead KV1, and an unlocked Cromwell.

Too bad I have way too many unlocked tanks to buy at the moment - Tiger, now a Cromwell. After having recently purchased the Hellcat and the Tier 7 American SPG. I need something like 2.5m Credits, even more if you count the Tier 7 French TD I've almost unlocked.  

Edit: hurrr, typing

Try going to your depot and sell any unused modules and ammo you have in there.  I did that tonight and finished with over 7 million credits.

[apocrypha]

Soooo, don't use XVM? 

I don't even pay attention to that nonsense, I just play.

I think he was complaining about other people using XVM and basing their play efforts on it's predictions.

[Simond]

Last night I had a game which reminded me why I don't play this game very much.

Logged and the first comment from the opposition was "We win!" And lots of laughter about how this was going to be a walkover, and lots of lamenting from my team about how we don't have a prayer

XVM. Which totally and completely does not affect the game you play, really. How the hell are you supposed to win a match when your team is just going through the motions because a stupid mod is telling them they only have a 36 or whatever percent chance of winning? Its a curse.

Fuck that.

That's when you start going on the team. If nothing else, it's certainly relaxing...especially if you stay inside the capture circle and shoot those outside it (the auto-punishment thing is weighted heavily against shooting team-mates capturing/defending).

Also, 8.4 is probably going to be this week. Time to start on comedy Baneblades British TDs.

[WayAbvPar]

Last night I had a game which reminded me why I don't play this game very much.

Logged and the first comment from the opposition was "We win!" And lots of laughter about how this was going to be a walkover, and lots of lamenting from my team about how we don't have a prayer

XVM. Which totally and completely does not affect the game you play, really. How the hell are you supposed to win a match when your team is just going through the motions because a stupid mod is telling them they only have a 36 or whatever percent chance of winning? Its a curse.

Fuck that.

XVM just shows past results and a prediction on what will happen based thereon. It doesn't have any magic powers. Your team was 'going through the motions' because it was stocked with terrible players, not because XVM told them they didn't have a chance. Bad players are bad. They shoot only HE rounds because the damage number is bigger, or because it is cheaper. They stop in the middle of an open field and get shot by 5 different tanks (and usually artillery). They 'guard artillery' with their top tier heavy and deprive their team of a vital gun in the field. They do a million stupid things every game, and that is why they only win 45% of their matches. You could reverse the odds on XVM and it wouldn't matter.

[Nebu]

What I hate about XVM is that it 1) predisposes attitudes, 2) gives assholes ammunition to help them justify their behavior, and 3) makes better players a target without the need to learn the better players by name. 

I'd rather that XVM go away and allow us the opportunity to learn who the good and bad players are for ourselves. 

[kildorn]

My favorite facepalm last week was someone complaining that 1k/shell in higher tier tanks was expensive, and that's why he only ran with a half ammo load.

I.. I was hoping it was a joke. But he really was terrible.

[Sir T]

XVM just shows past results and a prediction on what will happen based thereon. It doesn't have any magic powers. Your team was 'going through the motions' because it was stocked with terrible players, not because XVM told them they didn't have a chance. Bad players are bad. They shoot only HE rounds because the damage number is bigger, or because it is cheaper. They stop in the middle of an open field and get shot by 5 different tanks (and usually artillery). They 'guard artillery' with their top tier heavy and deprive their team of a vital gun in the field. They do a million stupid things every game, and that is why they only win 45% of their matches. You could reverse the odds on XVM and it wouldn't matter.

So, a 45% win ratio means you are utter shit, now. Thanks for the vote of confidence. 

[Tmon]

It depends, do you have 25,000 games played and a win rate or 45%?  If yes, then you are utter shit.  If you have less than a 1000 games played and a win rate of 45% then you are probably close to average.  If you make it to 2k+ games played and are still at 45% you probably want to spend some time working out what you are doing wrong.

[Gets]

A sub 50% winrate says you lose more matches than you win. That's all it says. That's all it ever will say. You can argue over the validity of Elo, KDR, DKP, juggling gerbils while seeing how many multiplications you can do in your head, etc, but winning games will always determine the maximum amount of money a football player gets to spend on cocaine and hookers in his lifetime.

[angry.bob]

Win rate in a team game is a shit indicator of an individual's skill and there's a reason why no other FPS has used it.

That being said, the FV215 crazy. I'm not sure what their thought process behind this was.

[Amarr HM]

Two things wrong with last statement, Wot is not an FPS and win ratio isn't the ultimate indication, but it sure does tell a story. I've never seen a botter who had a higher than 45% win ratio.

[Gets]

Win rate in a team game is a shit indicator of an individual's skill and there's a reason why no other FPS has used it.

Off the top of my head I can name MechWarriro Online and War Thunder and that's mostly because their respective threads are right next to the one you're reading this second. If someone has to explain the common denominator every time basic statistics is questioned this thread would keep going around in circles. But the "It's not me, it's all of you." rationalization to life's problems has brought Taylor Swift much success, so it might work for you.

[angry.bob]

Two things wrong with last statement, Wot is not an FPS and win ratio isn't the ultimate indication, but it sure does tell a story. I've never seen a botter who had a higher than 45% win ratio.

Really? I must have missed the part of the game where you don't shoot things, almost always from a first-person view. And yes, win rate says a lot of things, but very little of them have to do with individual skill. They pretty much all have to do with the quality of the teams they end up on in relation to the teams his team fights. As far as bots having shitty win rates, of course they do. But their other stats are much, much worse. Because team performance doesn't affect those other stats at all.

[UnsGub]

And yes, win rate says a lot of things, but very little of them have to do with individual skill.

It says everything.  You generate your stats.

Driving, shooting, reading the map, who you group with, etc.

Right group, specific tanks, player knowledge and control can get over 95% win rates.

[Gets]

If a person wants to ignore numbers that's his right as a Republican.

[angry.bob]

It says everything.  You generate your stats.

Driving, shooting, reading the map, who you group with, etc.

Right group, specific tanks, player knowledge and control can get over 95% win rates.

I generate my own stats. That's why I consider my own stats valid. I don't generate my TEAM'S stats which is what win rate is. And you realize that all those individual skills you listed are exactly that: individual. Except for grouping which once again is a team thing. Also, I'd love to see any player that plays all ungrouped pub games with a win rate of 95%. Because comparing the win rate of a player that only does that and has only played one account is not comparable to some clanfag who rerolled and will only play in clan matches with the 14 best people in his clan. Which is what win rate people seem keen on trying to do. I'd take a 49% pub only player any time over a 60% clan player any time.

[angry.bob]

If a person wants to ignore numbers that's his right as a Republican.

I'm not ignoring numbers, just irrelevant and skewed ones. There are way too many variables involved for win rates to be an accurate indicator of player skill. Thanks for the admission that you've got no counter argument and just have to name call. That considered me being right by most adults in any just about any discussion of any topic.

Also, as far as War Thunder and MechWarrior using winrate to determine player skill, being able to view the stat in your private profile is not the same thing. Especially in Mechwarrior, the game of organized groups being matched against a team of random individuals.

[Amarr HM]

Really? I must have missed the part of the game where you don't shoot things, almost always from a first-person view. And yes, win rate says a lot of things, but very little of them have to do with individual skill.

You could probably improve your win % if you didn't drive around in first person view almost all the time.

[Gets]

I don't mean to offend anyone as a person, but the "winrate doesn't matter" meme is probably the most beaten dead horse on the WoT forums while also being the most easily refuted one. It's like the special needs kid who won't stop getting beaten up no matter how many times you tell him not to wear his Superman costume. You can track its droll existence all the way back to the Bible:

But they refused to pay attention and turned a stubborn shoulder and stopped their ears that they might not hear. They made their hearts diamond-hard lest they should hear the law and the words that the LORD of stats had sent by his Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore great anger came from the LORD of stats. “As I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear,” says the LORD of stats.

Zechariah 7:11-13.

[Gets]

You could probably improve your win % if you didn't drive around in first person view almost all the time.

Some players turn off the minimap, because they claim it "adds nothing to the game."

[angry.bob]

I don't mean to offend anyone as a person, but the "winrate doesn't matter" meme is probably the most beaten dead horse on the WoT forums while also being the most easily refuted one. It's like the special needs kid who won't stop getting beaten up no matter how many times you tell him not to wear his Superman costume. You can track its droll existence all the way back to the Bible:

But they refused to pay attention and turned a stubborn shoulder and stopped their ears that they might not hear. They made their hearts diamond-hard lest they should hear the law and the words that the LORD of stats had sent by his Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore great anger came from the LORD of stats. “As I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear,” says the LORD of stats.

Zechariah 7:11-13.

Oh, well if it says that in the bible it's probably right. There's no more authoritative source for statistics than a religious tome full of contradictions and bullshit that predates the western world's knowledge that bad behavior isn't caused by mischevious quasits that have taken up residence in people's foreheads. I've read those threads on the WoT forums and they're pretty much bullshit too. One or two guys with a faulty model "proving beyond a doubt" that winrate is the best indicator of individual skill, a bunch of assgoblins who want them to be right cheering them on, and one or two guys trying to show them why their model is fucked up and giving up after pages of explanation. Team win rate being the best indicator must be why team sports use it to figure out if individual players are good, right? To bad Miami didn't know that or they could have saved a TON of money on getting LeBron.
This srguement isn't like a retard in a superman suit getting beat up. It's like retards claiming that a team stat is the best indicator of individual player skill.

Really? I must have missed the part of the game where you don't shoot things, almost always from a first-person view. And yes, win rate says a lot of things, but very little of them have to do with individual skill.

You could probably improve your win % if you didn't drive around in first person view almost all the time.

Really? lern2sentence more.
What am I doing? Shooting
Where am I doing it? In first person view
Who am I doing it to/with? Things
When am I doing it? In the present, in first person view

You could probably improve your win % if you didn't drive around in first person view almost all the time. not being a fool if you read what things plainly say and don't add your own shit that completely changes what they say. It explains a lot about why you don't understand team and individual stats being different.

[Strazos]

People are putting too much trust in these numbers. I have a 50.x% win rate - I am by no means an amazing player. Many of those wins came after I did something stupid and died early.

Just play the game...or don't, I don't know.

[Nebu]

Win Rate is a meta game that can be 'gamed' like any other stat in WoT.  There's an interesting discussion of WR stat padding in THIS thread with contributions by some of the best players on the NA server.  For example:

Tanks where 95% (WR) is a possibility:
- kv5
- is6
- Sp
- type 59
- M4
- T29 + t20, etc
- T-54 + E75, etc
- And possibly other top tanks

TL;DR -- Its not the IS-6 alone, its the combination of MM, gold spam, and skills.

[Merusk]

Yes, clearly an individual can take-down 8 enemy tanks on their own, in a light or Arty, 75% of the time which is why  Win Rate is such a valid metric.

Or, y'know, it punishes those who play tiers other than 7-10 and anything other than Meds & Heavies.

Whichever.

[Amarr HM]

You could probably improve your win % if you didn't drive around in first person view almost all the time. not being a fool if you read what things plainly say and don't add your own shit that completely changes what they say.

Thanks for the admission that you've got no counter argument and just have to name call.

No, thank you.

[Amarr HM]

Some players turn off the minimap, because they claim it "adds nothing to the game."

'If I'm gonna be blown up it's gotta be in full screen'.

[Nebu]

From the WR thread I posted above:

A bigger issue, imo, is the fact that what t8 prem farming says about the game as a whole. Think about it -- unicums would rather play inferior, stale tanks than risk being on bottom or facing big arty. What does that say about how awful arty/the mm is?

I think WG is going to have their hands full with WT working on a tank minigame.  They may have to take a serious look at tiers 9 and 10 and decide if they want to adapt to customers outside of Russia and China.