Is EVE For Me?

[Amarr HM]

You keep editing the configuration of the "gate gang".  Replace AF with a mix of Inty,cruiser or frigates and it would be just as viable. AF do not excel at any given role. They are not fast they do dick for dps a couple can fit a "decent" tank while being completely worthless in any other way. Anything you would use one for can be done better by a frig,inty or cruiser. All the while requiring less SP and isk.

Ok I'll reitirate my point for the less enlightened, I have been party to a fifteen man gang of Scimitar/AFs obliterating an equal sized gang of BS/BC/HACs/Recons (AAA) cause the scimitar pilots knew what they were doing, we took no losses for about six of them including an Absolution/Zealot/Curse rest buggered off demoralised . AFs excel at this thing called signature tanking, their natural tank allows them to be repped up a lot quicker than other frigs this would not work in T1 cruisers or t1 frigs and you need to use very specific fits, this is probably their only niche all the same, but you are still wrong.

[gryeyes]

They are both fodder but one can be insured, costs less and requires less SP to fly. AF are slower,heavier,larger sigs, and lower scan resolution. None of those things are very beneficial for frig class ship that still does piddly damage with no kind of tank. And its not a t1 frig vs AF. Its what can an AF bring to the party that a t1 frig,cruiser or inty cant while being cheaper and insurable.
You used to be able to sneak in AF's passed some gates designed for frigs to speed the process up a bit.

@Amarr yes im sure they do that "signature tanking" far more effectively than an inty which i notice you kind of fail to address.  So i think the AF are worthless still stands anecdotal stories involving a group of retards aside. Anything they can do can be done better by a t1 frig,cruiser or inty while being cheaper and requiring less SP. Which was the point.

[Setanta]

Wow, I mentioned AFs and the whole thread went sideways. It was an example of how you can plan at noob level and get to a good point post-Apocrypha with something that you want to do if you focus.

Eg: On one of my accounts (I have far too many) I decided to try a dedicated AF build for fun because people do write them off. I'm sure everyone who has posted has valid points but you know what? I am having fun flying one over a frigate and wow, if it doesn't work, I have a good frigate based skillset that can be used with other builds that don't include cruiser -> destroyer -> BS etc but are frig based platforms or heck, even a frigate itself.

I guess I should have used a well-rounded cruiser as the example so the AF hate didn't generate 

[Slayerik]

I personally think the Jaguar and Ishkur are both fun ships to fly. I mean, I get your point, but I don't agree 100%. Then again, I'm rich and could piss away the cost of them. In AFs, I have 24 kills and 1 loss. It's just plain fun to roam in an AF gang, you get underestimated a lot and score some nice kills. Combined with decent escapability, they can be good for deep roams.

Set, you are right...there is nothing wrong with getting a good skill set with frig sized weapons. Any t2 you get to training to will be required for the cruiser stuff anyway.

[Sir T]

I too have never really understood the AF hate. I really liked flying an ishkur back in the day, and got a fair amount of kills using it. Haven't flown one in ages though.

AFs are not really fleet ships but good for roaming. Same as the Dominix, and I don't think anyone would argue that the Domi isn't a good ship

[IainC]

Calling it 'AF hate' is overstating it somewhat - at least for me. I don't particularly despise them, I just don't see what they bring to the table for the additional outlay in cash and SPs. The Ishkur is quite nice and is one of the few frigates that can mount a full rack of drones (a full rack of medium drones if you have AF skill to V) but I'm struggling to see why I'd fly one instead of say; a Vexor. If you want the standard frigate advantages of speed and low sig radius then an interceptor is the best choice. If you want a middleweight slugger that isn't as slow and ponderous as a BC or a BS then any reasonably well fit t1 cruiser will fill that role.

You can kill things in an AF, no-one is saying that they aren't capable of it, just that - for me at least - there's always a better alternative for pretty much any role you'd pick them for.

[Amarr HM]

They are both fodder but one can be insured, costs less and requires less SP to fly. AF are slower,heavier,larger sigs, and lower scan resolution. None of those things are very beneficial for frig class ship that still does piddly damage with no kind of tank. And its not a t1 frig vs AF. Its what can an AF bring to the party that a t1 frig,cruiser or inty cant while being cheaper and insurable.
You used to be able to sneak in AF's passed some gates designed for frigs to speed the process up a bit.

@Amarr yes im sure they do that "signature tanking" far more effectively than an inty which i notice you kind of fail to address.  So i think the AF are worthless still stands anecdotal stories involving a group of retards aside. Anything they can do can be done better by a t1 frig,cruiser or inty while being cheaper and requiring less SP. Which was the point.

You are a snarky little cunt aren't you?

[Amarr HM]

AF are slower,heavier,larger sigs, and lower scan resolution.

Wrong, unless you are going to fit afterburners to your inty in which case you are correct but those inties wouldn't last long and yes you should use sensor boosters, but scan res only matters if you are gatecamping I'm talking about roaming around looking for a fight on a gate (this is so the scimitars can jump in and out) different kettle of fish.

what can an AF bring to the party that a t1 frig,cruiser or inty cant while being cheaper and insurable.

T1 frig can't fit everything you need and can't push out even a 1/3 of the DPS in most cases, cruisers can't sig tank cause well they're big.

So i think the AF are worthless still stands anecdotal stories involving a group of retards aside.

What if I were to tell you that these retards are all very regular poster on here would that make you go back to SHC with your worthless advice?

[Amarr HM]

I personally think the Jaguar and Ishkur are both fun ships to fly. I mean, I get your point, but I don't agree 100%. Then again, I'm rich and could piss away the cost of them. In AFs, I have 24 kills and 1 loss. It's just plain fun to roam in an AF gang, you get underestimated a lot and score some nice kills. Combined with decent escapability, they can be good for deep roams.

Set, you are right...there is nothing wrong with getting a good skill set with frig sized weapons. Any t2 you get to training to will be required for the cruiser stuff anyway.

Basically this, it really doesn't matter what ship you are flying it's the man behind the controls at the end of the day and jaguar or ishkur are the best AFs money can buy. Enyo/wolf/retri aren't bad either though retribution lacks tackle but still good as DPS support. I'd love to do another frigate club as a lot of people would be able to bring T2 frigs this time around and stealth bombers would really add shithot DPS support.

[Nerf]

I'd say the biggest problem with AFs is really that people have their role confused.  If you're trying to be support/dps, then yes, a cruiser is usually a better chioce, however a cruiser isn't going to have a chance against all but the dumbest intys.

AFs are inty killing machines, running on an AB and being immune to scrams (you can scram them back and then burn out of range with your higher speed to disengage), while shutting down your opponents speed makes you the kryptonite to interceptors that pre-speednerf rapiers/huggins were.

They have a place in the EvE universe, their specialization is just /very/ limited, and outside of it a cruiser usually does better.

[Amarr HM]

Their role is very limited this is true the only time I have seen them working was in these signature tanking gangs and the Scimitar pilots needed to be on top of things. But a jaguar being repped by three scimitars while taking damage from over twenty ships comprised of BC/BS for well over a minute is a sight to behold. The one time it fell apart was when a couple of Falcons joined the brigade, screwed up the spider tank but still they managed to take down 10 or so mostly BC out of 20 and lost their whole gang, so wasn't an epic fail easily did as much damage as they lost. When these gangs did work (no falcons showed up) the fight would go on for about 10-30 minutes that was the fun thing about them was kind of a war of attrition.

[Fordel]

An Ishkur can only run 5 lights with bandwidth now. :(



The Ishkur is what you use when a Vexor is too big or too slow or too fragile. It's bonuses give it fairly impressive range for a frigate, and drone flexibility is always keen. It's fairly unique in it provides functionality that is not normally found on a Frigate sized ship. Most Frigates have a drone bay between 0 and 1.

[gryeyes]

Wrong

It is not a matter of opinion. Nobody gives two shits about your moronically contrived "hypothetical" situation that you believe somehow redeems the entire fucking class of ships.

What if I were to tell you that these retards are all very regular poster on here would that make you go back to SHC with your worthless advice?

What if i were to tell you that you this sentence makes no fucking sense and i have no clue what your stupid ass is talking about?


Ishkur is almost the exception. And even that ship is kinda iffy with the nos and bandwidth changes. You can kill shit in any ship with AF 99% of the time there is a cheaper ship that will do a better job. Barring the ever so practical 15 AF Scimitar spider tanking setup. 

[Sir T]

Ishkur is almost the exception. And even that ship is kinda iffy with the nos and bandwidth changes. You can kill shit in any ship with AF 99% of the time there is a cheaper ship that will do a better job. Barring the ever so practical 15 AF Scimitar spider tanking setup. 

You can say the exact same thing with a HAC vs a Battlecruiser. I don't see people lining up to say HACs are useless though.

[Amarr HM]

Wrong

It is not a matter of opinion. Nobody gives two shits about your moronically contrived "hypothetical" situation that you believe somehow redeems the entire fucking class of ships.

What if I were to tell you that these retards are all very regular poster on here would that make you go back to SHC with your worthless advice?

What if i were to tell you that you this sentence makes no fucking sense and i have no clue what your stupid ass is talking about?


Ishkur is almost the exception. And even that ship is kinda iffy with the nos and bandwidth changes. You can kill shit in any ship with AF 99% of the time there is a cheaper ship that will do a better job. Barring the ever so practical 15 AF Scimitar spider tanking setup. 

Jeesuz man it's not hypothetical what the fuck is wrong with you, you braindead or something?

[Tale]

Asking "Is Eve For Me?" in the Eve forum guarantees a "yes" answer, because people like me aren't reading.

I tried it and it wasn't for me. I grew up playing Elite on the C64 and I was looking for massively multiplayer Elite, and Eve wasn't what I was looking for.

It remains tempting as intelligent people play it, it's sci-fi and it has huge political and strategic depth, all of which threaten to hook me. My best MMORPG experiences were massive intercity PvP conflicts involving alliances in SWG, and Kunark-Velious era EQ1 where nothing was instanced and competing for raid spawns was a brutal game of alliance politics.

But Eve's not the game I was looking for and it's a huge timesink with an insane learning curve. A side issue was the engine makes me feel my ship is a fixed point around which space moves, whereas Elite/Privateer/WCIII/Freespace make me believe I'm moving through space. There's no suspension of disbelief.

I want a different space game. I don't want to discuss with Eve nerds why they think I'm wrong, I'm just answering your question as a non-fan.

[Gets]

At threads like these I'm always reminded of CCP Wrangler's classic quote from 4 years ago.

You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.

I had the "I am the center of the universe" feeling very briefly, but overcame it with an affection to constantly Look At other objects and pan my camera and zoom into things for greater detail pretending it was my space periscope. Often I center my camera on things I'm shooting at while going ARF ARF DIE YOU BASTARD THIS IS FOR BLOWING UP MY STEALTH BOMBER 10 MINUTES AGO and watching the elite frigate rat explode into cosmic dust.

[gryeyes]

You can say the exact same thing with a HAC vs a Battlecruiser. I don't see people lining up to say HACs are useless though.

If it was a noob asking what is a good ship to begin adventuring around in I would give a similar opinion towards HAC's. HAC's also have a ton more versatility and use compared to AF's its not a good analogy.

Jeesuz man it's not hypothetical what the fuck is wrong with you, you braindead or something?

Ok, its not hypothetical just extremely irrelevant in trying to redeem AF's. You can do amazing things with any group of ships. Spider tanking AF's at a gate (and yes you specifically said gate gang) doesn't change anything. Anymore than the guy with a 20 to 1 k/d ratio in an AF does. And when i said "retards" i wasn't directing that at you. I was referring to the mixed gang of BS/BC/Recons/HAC's that you destroyed with the AF squad. Nobody is trying to claim AF's are without worth. Just that you can do better with less.

[Endie]

Hurf de blurf

It's not hypothetical: when we were in Providence Amarr used to hang out in HED most nights a week with a gang pretty much made up as he describes killing lots of AAA.  He's not a theory-crafter (although I notice he's down to a little over ten kills a day at the moment, so Atlas must be learning to avoid blops).

[Fordel]

I would argue many more HAC's are much more similar to a Ishkur in that they have unique abilities not normally found on a standard cruiser hull.


Then again, maybe I haven't looked at HAC bonuses in awhile outside of the Ishtar 

[calapine]

Hai Guyz! *cough* I don't want to derail the thread with non-AF related posts, just thought to say Thank you for the advice and give a short update:

Day 4

I was lucky and got a recommendation for a really nice PVP-corp (not in 0.0 space of course) that helped me out with some implants, lots of advice and most importantly nice company.
Being thrown into Eve not knowing anyone is definitly "meh". Having great fun getting to know the basics in my Kestrel aka "Fluffy Kitten One"

Cala

[gryeyes]

It's not hypothetical:

Correct its just irrelevant.

[Setanta]

I was lucky and got a recommendation for a really nice PVP-corp (not in 0.0 space of course) that helped me out with some implants, lots of advice and most importantly nice company.
Being thrown into Eve not knowing anyone is definitly "meh". Having great fun getting to know the basics in my Kestrel aka "Fluffy Kitten One"

Gratz mate - I still haven't bothered with a corp but play with mates from an Aussie/US/UK/Netherlands forum - one day I'll get around to a corp. Is the kessie fun? I skipped past it into a Merlin and am now wondering why I didn't mess about with it a bit more. Now... work your skills up to AF.... [evil grin] 

Just as an aside - instead of taking my baby militia AF pilot out I did my first Sleeper wormhole run with a few mates (in a Scorpion). I highly recommend it when you get a ship that can absorb damage well. I was just doing ECM and tossing missiles but the AI on them seems to leave the normal mission mobs for dead.

[Amarr HM]

It's not hypothetical:

Correct its just irrelevant.

Some of us might have actually wanted to talk about AFs cause we used to organise frigate clubs with all the members of F13 allowing vets and noobs to be on an even footing and have a bit of fun. Even though it's been a while since we have done one of these it's still relevant and I was tinkering with the idea of doing one, AFs would certainly be welcome, so could you stop being a giant douchebag.

[Jayce]

But Eve's not the game I was looking for and it's a huge timesink with an insane learning curve.

I know you didn't want to discuss this with Eve nerds, and everything else you said was true, but it's not a timesink unless you want it to be.  I might get two hours a night if I'm lucky. Once every few weeks I dig deep and rack up three hours.  2-4 days a week I don't play at all.

Offline training is pretty cool.

[Pennilenko]

Hai Guyz! *cough* I don't want to derail the thread with non-AF related posts, just thought to say Thank you for the advice and give a short update:

Day 4

I was lucky and got a recommendation for a really nice PVP-corp (not in 0.0 space of course) that helped me out with some implants, lots of advice and most importantly nice company.
Being thrown into Eve not knowing anyone is definitly "meh". Having great fun getting to know the basics in my Kestrel aka "Fluffy Kitten One"

Cala

Now what you do is work hard and move up their ranks, then get rolls, then one day clean the corp of everything they own and start your own space empire with the earnings. Such is the way eve is supposed to work.