Richard Bartle on MMO design (IMGDC 09)

[Mrbloodworth]

I cannot lock or unlock items unless I am in the shop interface,

Ctrl+T

[tmp]

Bloodworth mentioned the apparently-space-age Hide Locked Items toggle, but that is a great example of simplicity-looks-like-stupidity.  I cannot lock or unlock items unless I am in the shop interface.

You can map the 'toggle lock' to a key in game settings; then you can select item in your inventory with Alt+left click if i remember right and use that mapped lock key to toggle the lock.

But yup, it's convoluted and i don't think many people discover this.

[Yegolev]

The fact that I'm told how to do this in a forum only blunts my point by a small amount.  How many people know how to do this?  I've looked through the keybinds before now.  I'm no stranger to Options; they know the rules, but not do I.. I-I-I-I....

[Mrbloodworth]

The fact that I'm told how to do this in a forum only blunts my point by a small amount.  How many people know how to do this?  I've looked through the keybinds before now.  I'm no stranger to Options; they know the rules, but not do I.. I-I-I-I....

I think its on that little piece of cardboard you get with the game. Could be wrong though.

I agree with this though "I can't do a text search in the shop interface although I can in the AH interface...?". the shop could use a tad bit of consistency with the AH.

[Yegolev]

I think its on that little piece of cardboard you get with the game. Could be wrong though.

Can't download cardboard, hoss.  I read the PDF, though.  Was it in there?  Maybe.  Could they put in a button to do it?  Yes.  It's not about whether the functionality exists but rather how much of a pain in the fucking ass it is.  Saying "you can buy 22 glass vials using this UI so stop QQ" or "there's a keyboard shortcut to perform this step in the GUI so stop QQ" is lame.  I like keybinds as much as anyone, but usability is usability, especially when I'm playing a game instead of learning emacs.

Don't forget how it would be nice to filter out things your character cannot use.  The code is there to display a red border, so put it to work to filter out things in both shop and AH interfaces.

Let me resize any of the windows.  I have eight-hundred titles and the alert icon does not take me to the one I just got, so either fix it to take me there or let me make the window bigger so I can see more than three at a time.  It would be nice to make the quest dialog window taller.  Blah, blah, etc.  I'm not asking for additional functionality, just ease of use.  Dammit.

[Mrbloodworth]

Saying "you can buy 22 glass vials using this UI so stop QQ" or "there's a keyboard shortcut to perform this step in the GUI so stop QQ" is lame.

That's not what i was saying. On another note, there is a drop down in sort for buying, and in the AH for "Usable", but i do not think it extends to your bag under the sell tab.

[Yegolev]

Yeah, I'm not specifically complaining at you but I want to make the distinction about what I am complaining about.  Also the Usable sort doesn't seem to work the way I expect it to, anyway how hard would it be to implement a filter?

[Lantyssa]

Also "competative advantage" in a PvE game?  Please.

Three key words: ultra rare loot.

Keeping up with the Joneses is not PvP.  Going over to their house and looting it is.

[Musashi]

There's pretty much nothing to learn from old shitty MUDs.  They're dead, and they're gonna stay that way.  Those of you still trying to make some kind of link between the successes are just trying to justify your beliefs and/or relive your childhoods.  Aaaaand, you're fucking crazy. 

The reason that there's nothing to learn from them, is that they're just another game system.  And any game system could have been applied to the team that made WoW and it would have had a similar result.  Why?  They remembered to listen to their players because they knew what it was like to be ignored.  The players told them the brutal truth, as they always do.  And they didn't let their stupid 'vision' get in the way of making a utilitarian money fest.  And that's a way more important lesson than anything you can learn from dissecting MUDs (again).

[UnSub]

Also "competative advantage" in a PvE game?  Please.

Three key words: ultra rare loot.

Keeping up with the Joneses is not PvP.  Going over to their house and looting it is.

PvP - player vs player - doesn't begin and end with the use of pointy objects. Most commonly we think about it in terms of combat, but it should certainly be seen in a wider context. For instance: the race to be first on a server to defeat the latest big bad. That's a pvp contest between guilds, even though they won't deal one point of damage to each other.

[Venkman]

That's "indirect PvP" and has been around since before there was a term for it 

I'm not against mods at all, but please let's recognise it for what it is - a shortcut through the system that changes the nature of the game originally intended method of interacting with the system before players showed you the light.

All better now.

[tmp]

All better now.

Not necessarily; sturgeon's law applies to player-made stuff, too. Plus, with players being anything but homogenous what works for one doesn't have to work for another, their goals and preferred ways to interact with system can be very different.

[Venkman]

Players will optimize, whether the tools are provided or not. The difference really is whether the publisher is paying attention to WHAT is being optimized. If the optimizers design around it and the masses find ways to avoid it, chances are it sucks. It takes a special type of office culture to be willing to accept that their baby is ugly though, which is why some companies go for the arms race approach while others actually improve the system.

[sam, an eggplant]

Not necessarily; sturgeon's law applies to player-made stuff, too. Plus, with players being anything but homogenous what works for one doesn't have to work for another, their goals and preferred ways to interact with system can be very different.

Have you played WoW? The addon ecology is diverse, mature, and while it's true that most of them are crap, the cream is easily skimmed from the top from multiple competing commercial sites offering addons for download complete with ratings, comments, and automatic updaters.

[tmp]

Players will optimize, whether the tools are provided or not.

Yes, i'm just not convinced that optimization always equals 'the light'. It certainly can equal "the easiest/fastest way to the pellet" but these two aren't automatically always one and the same.

[Venkman]

That's the other part of evaluating what's being evaluated though. There's a difference between bots specifically intended to leave up characters flipped on eBay and getting around encounters or features not well thought through.