Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[Kail]

No, you are not.  At least compared to other dikus, this is by far one of the fastest leveling ones.

Seriously?  In Warhammer, I can ding a level in an hour or two if I've got rest XP.  In Aion, I was grinding for half an hour, already bored, and my XP bar was maybe 20% higher.  And that was at 20, so I assumed it got worse from there.

[Threash]

No, you are not.  At least compared to other dikus, this is by far one of the fastest leveling ones.

Seriously?  In Warhammer, I can ding a level in an hour or two if I've got rest XP.  In Aion, I was grinding for half an hour, already bored, and my XP bar was maybe 20% higher.  And that was at 20, so I assumed it got worse from there.

Maybe NOW that they are at the end of their rope, when i played it took me four months of regular play time to reach 40.  In Aion i'm on pace to max out in under 3, which would also be twice as fast as i did in WoW.

[DLRiley]

What are we? In 2004 again  . Relative to WoW doesn't matter. AoC and WAR were both less grindy relative to WoW. But their not competing for the subs of players who are still level 1 in WoW. They are competing for the subs of players with more than one past 60 alt. Why are you insisting that your kill 10 fuzzies quests are less annoying than WoW when in WoW i'm doing raids and high level pvp. People aren't comparing the WoW 1-70 grind to other games their comparing the last time they played WoW to what they are doing now in your game.

[gryeyes]

Maybe NOW that they are at the end of their rope, when i played it took me four months of regular play time to reach 40.  In Aion i'm on pace to max out in under 3, which would also be twice as fast as i did in WoW.

It will take two to three times as many hours /played to reach level cap in Aion compared to vanilla WoW. I understand you are captain Aion dedicated to endless if inaccurate defense, but c'mon guy.

[Xanthippe]

Maybe NOW that they are at the end of their rope, when i played it took me four months of regular play time to reach 40.  In Aion i'm on pace to max out in under 3, which would also be twice as fast as i did in WoW.

It will take two to three times as many hours /played to reach level cap in Aion compared to vanilla WoW. I understand you are captain Aion dedicated to endless if inaccurate defense, but c'mon guy.

I don't think so.   I could be wrong, but I don't think so.  Seems pretty comparable to me to max_level to vanilla WoW. 

[Threash]

Maybe NOW that they are at the end of their rope, when i played it took me four months of regular play time to reach 40.  In Aion i'm on pace to max out in under 3, which would also be twice as fast as i did in WoW.

It will take two to three times as many hours /played to reach level cap in Aion compared to vanilla WoW. I understand you are captain Aion dedicated to endless if inaccurate defense, but c'mon guy.

Just because it feels grindy doesn't mean its taking you longer.

[Evildrider]

No, you are not.  At least compared to other dikus, this is by far one of the fastest leveling ones.

Seriously?  In Warhammer, I can ding a level in an hour or two if I've got rest XP.  In Aion, I was grinding for half an hour, already bored, and my XP bar was maybe 20% higher.  And that was at 20, so I assumed it got worse from there.

Maybe NOW that they are at the end of their rope, when i played it took me four months of regular play time to reach 40.  In Aion i'm on pace to max out in under 3, which would also be twice as fast as i did in WoW.

It took me 7 days played to take a character to 40 at WAR's launch.  And that was solid questing and scenarios only. 

[Threash]

Jesus christ, when WaR came out all we bitched about was how long leveling was now you are going to tell me leveling there was SB like.  Its been slightly over a month, i'm level 36 which seems about average for someone whos been playing since early start.  This is very very fast as far as dikus go, 5-6 months to max out for casual gamers 3-4 for non insane hardcores is what i would consider average.  If you are going to compare this to "vanilla wow" then you gotta use vanilla wow leveling speed as comparison, otherwise you count all 80 levels, i thought games weren't competing with wow as it was at launch anyways.  If you want to complain that the game feels grindy then i'm right there with you, but saying leveling is slow is just flat out wrong.

[Sir Fodder]

I'm glad I tried Aion if only to witness the intense gold spamming and utterly rampant botting, I would not have been able to truly appreciate the extent of that crap without seeing it first hand.

[amiable]

Just because it feels grindy doesn't mean its taking you longer.

So instead of taking forever it just feels like it takes forever.   I know that's what I look for in a quality game. 

[gryeyes]

Just because it feels grindy doesn't mean its taking you longer.

I believe it took me 6-7 days played to hit cap in vanilla WoW. And while fast is not remotely the fastest (I believe it was 3-4 days /played is the quickest ive seen). By the end of the first month entire guilds were populated with high leveled characters . In Aion it took me around 30hrs to hit 25, thats an average between the two characters ive leveled so far. At 35 it will take around 10-12 hours of pure grinding to hit 36, at 49 you get to look forward to around 24hrs of continuous grinding (no quests at all) to level. Even discounting the magnification of suck that grinding produces,  it takes way longer. And that is a low ball estimate of a dedicated grinder (with rare exception is the fastest method of leveling). I know of several people that play 12 hrs a day grinding, and then run a bot when they sleep, and they are in their mid 40's. It would take a "normal" player exponentially longer, I say "would" because very few people are going to attempt it. Mandatory days long grinding sessions is more than most will bear.

[DLRiley]

The nubs should be grinding in the abyss when they hit 25 

[Shatter]

Just because it feels grindy doesn't mean its taking you longer.

I believe it took me 6-7 days played to hit cap in vanilla WoW. And while fast is not remotely the fastest (I believe it was 3-4 days /played is the quickest ive seen). By the end of the first month entire guilds were populated with high leveled characters . In Aion it took me around 30hrs to hit 25, thats an average between the two characters ive leveled so far. At 35 it will take around 10-12 hours of pure grinding to hit 36, at 49 you get to look forward to around 24hrs of continuous grinding (no quests at all) to level. Even discounting the magnification of suck that grinding produces,  it takes way longer. And that is a low ball estimate of a dedicated grinder (with rare exception is the fastest method of leveling). I know of several people that play 12 hrs a day grinding, and then run a bot when they sleep, and they are in their mid 40's. It would take a "normal" player exponentially longer, I say "would" because very few people are going to attempt it. Mandatory days long grinding sessions is more than most will bear.

6-7 days?  You were what the third person to hit max level in V-WOW?  6-7 days in V-WOW when the game launched isnt a "normal" leveling curve and in fact Im pretty sure the first person to hit 60 took over 5 days...so yeah.  It took me about 2-3 months to get max level in Vanilla WOW and I played a lot more then I do today.  I also remember it took me 3-4 weeks to get from level 60 to 70 in TBC.  Im level 40 in Aion in 4-5 weeks time and my playtime is far less then it was then.  I also have a level 20 alt and level 15 alt.  IMO thats not bad and very comparative to other MMO's Ive played including V-WOW.  Here is a breakdown of games Ive played and time it took me:

EQ1-To reach max level = 4-5 months
EQ2-To reach level 50 = 7 weeks
AOC-To reach level 80 = 2.5 months
WAR - To reach level 40 = 1.5 months
WAR - To reach RR77 = 11 months
SWG - To unlock jedi with 30 professions = 2.5 months
WOW - To reach level 60 in V-WOW = 2.5 months
WOW - To go from 60 to 70 in TBC = 4 weeks
Aion - To reach level 40 = 4.5 weeks

*shrugs*  I cant argue that the game feels more grindy for people, it doesnt for me. 

[Nebu]

EQ1-To reach max level = 4-5 months
EQ2-To reach level 50 = 7 weeks
AOC-To reach level 80 = 2.5 months
WAR - To reach level 40 = 1.5 months
WAR - To reach RR77 = 11 months
SWG - To unlock jedi with 30 professions = 2.5 months
WOW - To reach level 60 in V-WOW = 2.5 months
WOW - To go from 60 to 70 in TBC = 4 weeks
Aion - To reach level 40 = 4.5 weeks

*shrugs*  I cant argue that the game feels more grindy for people, it doesnt for me. 

DL hit it on the head.  It doesn't matter how long it TOOK to get to cap in those games.  It matters how long it takes RIGHT NOW to level to cap in those games.  DAoC took me 3 months to level to cap... that was 6 YEARS ago.  If I logged on a level 1 toon right now, I would be playing in New Frontiers with a geared level 50 toon in two days. 

Having a slow leveling curve in a pvp game is idiotic if the pve experience isn't at least as rich as the pvp endgame.  EVERY mmo in the west has learned this.  WoW still has a fairly long grind to endgame because the pve experience along the way is the best in the industry.  Blizzard is the only company that has earned the right to keep that. 

Aion will bleed many many subs due to the length of their pve grind.  PvP gamers will tolerate it once if the endgame pvp is good.  If they find out that it isn't, they will begin to vanish as well.  WAR is a classic example.  The pvp enthusiasts all ground a single toon to cap and most bailed when they realized that they had wasted their time. 

[DLRiley]

Oh no gamers aren't impartial judges of their play time! So didn't see that coming. Quote every single game developer. Again it doesn't matter if you level faster in *nameyourmmo* than you do in WoW.

[Draegan]

Aion needs to be Borderlands with wings.

[Nebu]

Oh no gamers aren't impartial judges of their play time! So didn't see that coming. Quote every single game developer. Again it doesn't matter if you level faster in *nameyourmmo* than you do in WoW.

You lost me.   

[tmp]

I believe it took me 6-7 days played to hit cap in vanilla WoW.

Since we're exchanging personal stories... after a week of WoW trial my character was l.20 (this was recently, but played without any fancy xp bonus etc) My character in Aion hit l.20 in this time, too. Both spent comparable time dicking around with tradeskills and such.

That said things may be different at higher levels, depending how the required xp and such scales in both games.

[DLRiley]

Oh no gamers aren't impartial judges of their play time! So didn't see that coming. Quote every single game developer. Again it doesn't matter if you level faster in *nameyourmmo* than you do in WoW.

You lost me.   

I was just pointing out that gamers are historically very bias when it comes to comparing time spent on games.Every developer always underestimates the angst that is generated if their game doesn't feel fluid enough.

[Zane0]

Eh. What everyone forgets is that there's nothing wrong with catering to a relative niche. I wouldn't want Aion to be mass-market; that's what WoW is for. The nostalgia/pvp/diku/open-world player finally has a definitive game to call their own that isn't either ten years old or a terrible heap of rubbish. It is almost certainly a good thing that the industry is diversifiying rather than instantly going for the same old mushy middle circa ~2004 that was probably the death of Warhammer at the very least.

Obviously Aion isn't perfect -- especially for the guy who wants something between an open-world gankfest and a sterile set of battlegrounds; but I think an exclusionary design philosophy, in principle, is probably a good thing in the long run.

[Draegan]

I think people are confusing time /played to max level and the time it takes in real time to max level.

[DLRiley]

Aion is not niche
Aion will not be remembered for being a rvr game.
Grind and low player density will generally make sure the above is true.

Never thought i hear "its niche leave it alone" for Aion. Aion puts the vanilla back in vanilla fantasy diku's, AoC and WAR almost look innovative in comparison. The funny part is Aion will still be a safe heaven for the post AoC and WAR players until another mass market mmo gets released with open world pvp promises. Aion is ultimately very bad for the industry.

[Shatter]

Aion is catering to people who want a new RvR game with a harder then then WOW difficulty.   

[DLRiley]

I didn't know grindy = difficulty?

[Ashamanchill]

Just because it feels grindy doesn't mean its taking you longer.

So instead of taking forever it just feels like it takes forever.   I know that's what I look for in a quality game.  

That sums up Aion. It feels like it takes forever because instead of running around to see the world through quests as you level, you are camping one hill all night. The thing about Aion is that it's not actually a pvp game like it claims to be, since most of the time spent on a character is on a brutal pve experience.

[Morfiend]

Just want to point out that it took me 14 days /played in vanilla wow to max as Horde, and that was about average around release time. Alliance took about 12 days /played to do it.

The thing is, if the trip is fun, it doesnt matter how long it takes to max. If the trip is a repetative unfun grindy experience with the sole intent of making people hit the "real" game slower, then it doesnt matter it it is 14 days played or 5 days played. I wont do it.

[Falconeer]

EQ1-To reach max level = 4-5 months
EQ2-To reach level 50 = 7 weeks
AOC-To reach level 80 = 2.5 months
WAR - To reach level 40 = 1.5 months
WAR - To reach RR77 = 11 months
SWG - To unlock jedi with 30 professions = 2.5 months
WOW - To reach level 60 in V-WOW = 2.5 months
WOW - To go from 60 to 70 in TBC = 4 weeks
Aion - To reach level 40 = 4.5 weeks
 

This list is weird (and pointless, even though I love numbers and I loved reading it). First of all, you didn't take into account that gryeyes was talking about /played when he said 6-7 days to cap in vanilla WoW. That's the only time that means anything since you can have a 15 days /played in 20 days real life or a 15 days /played in 20 months real life. What matters is your /played time. It's even more obvious since it took you 2.5 months to get to 80 in Age of Conan which is undeniably the game with the least /played needed (6 days or less) to reach the cap.

On another note, Aion WILL be remembered as a RvR game because that's exactly what it is. Playing a game helps curing asstalking syndrome.

[Morfiend]

On another note, Aion WILL be remembered as a RvR game because that's exactly what it is. Playing a game helps curing asstalking syndrome.

Not to people like me (I know quit a lot of them) who hated the grind and quit before level 25.

[Falconeer]

Many didn't survive to level 50 in DAoC, that never made it less RvR.

[Lantyssa]

I had more RvR in my month of WAR than my month of Aion...

I consider Aion superior on almost every level, but think about that a minute.

[Venkman]

Many didn't survive to level 50 in DAoC, that never made it less RvR.

DAoC's success as an RvR game happened years after launch. And it had the benefit of being unique at the time. DAoC launched after AO is very different Aion launching after WoW. Too much saturation for anyone to have patience to become so hard core about a single game that it becomes known genre-wide for that one thing.

Aion will be forgotten as AoC and WAR are on the path of being. The noise is too loud, the general market too flighty, and other games are getting smart about bringing in features that retain players they can monetize after launch.

[kondratti]

On another note, Aion WILL be remembered as a RvR game because that's exactly what it is. Playing a game helps curing asstalking syndrome.

Not to people like me (I know quit a lot of them) who hated the grind and quit before level 25.

The PvE to 25 was a walk in the park compared to the brutal PvP in the Abyss, where if you dont have friends, you will die quickly, many, many times. 

I am enjoying this game a lot, but I can see how it wont suit everyone.  There is nothing wrong with a game that doesnt cater to everyone.

And I agree with Falconeer, people should play it or STFU... I am looking at you DLRiley.

[DLRiley]

If you wanted a game that didn't cater to everyone wouldn't fallen earth be that game...

[Threash]

If you wanted a game that didn't cater to everyone wouldn't fallen earth be that game...

Every time i read about that game i get very interested, then someone mentions how important crafting is.

[DLRiley]

Basically my response. Head shots. Great. PVP zones/end game? Perfect. Post end of the nuclear war? Even better. Easily mistaken for fallout? Hey you starting to make me jizz. Crafting? Snore....