Bad Groups

[Simond]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22048394793&sid=1&pageNo=1
Aaaw. 

[Selby]

That's pretty much exactly how I feel.  I don't mind carrying a group (I did 4500DPS yesterday and the nearest was the tank doing 1500) even if they are slow and not the best of players, it's when people start getting abusive and entitled that I get annoyed and leave.

[Soulflame]

That's pretty much how I feel as well.  I'll do my best to carry the group to victory, but if people are obviously not trying, I don't know why I should carry them.

[K9]

Yeah, that was very well put.

[Lantyssa]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=22048394793&sid=1&pageNo=1

Wish I had her last night.  Had an ass who commented on my damage last night (despite an easy run) and it really got to me because I was already in a very grumpy mood.

It shouldn't have, since I'm a fresh 80 who has focused on tanking gear when I wanted to do dps for one night.  Even a "your dps needs (lots and lots of) work, but you had great tactics" would have gone over better than what I got.  Meh.  More like her, please.

[Dren]

Yeah, I don't get the people that comment on DPS numbers after a successful run.  Who cares?  If there are no wipes and it takes less than 30 mins, it is all good.  Even if it takes longer than 30 without wipes, I'm not going to say anything unless you have somebody doing less than 1k.  There really is no reason anyone should be doing less than that unless they skipped over the normal content in the game and just jumped into Heroics.

This is the same as the people that make fun of pvpers in BGs because their gear isn't top notch.  Everyone starts off this way.  They are there to get better gear.

[Selby]

It shouldn't have, since I'm a fresh 80 who has focused on tanking gear when I wanted to do dps for one night.

That's exactly what my DK gets when try to DPS.  2k isn't good enough, but when you inspect me, oh, gee, all tank gear.  Most people understand but there are plenty of asses out there who go "ur fail."

And besides if you are cat, DPS is not always easy to do super high numbers on.  I screw up my rotation and it's pretty much bad numbers.  That's why my druid only heals people.  No one ever complains about that.

[Soulflame]

I don't get people who complain about DPS under, say, 1500.  Okay, maybe 1600.  If the three DPS are averaging 1600 DPS or better, that's good enough for everything short of ICC heroics, or maybe HToC P3 of the Black Knight.  Certainly I'd be happier if the DPS was higher, so long as they're not ripping mobs off of the tank, but I'd rather have a group with low DPS that completes than no group at all.

Now I'll roll my eyes if the guy is dripping with full ilvl 226 epics or higher, because they're failing at DPS, but that's a different story.

[apocrypha]

I that regard we had an interesting one lastnight. Guild group but there were only 4 of us on (we're a v small friends & family guild) and nobody up to tanking, so we queued as group and got a tank after about 5 mins. One of our number is a shaman who dinged 80 about a month ago but she only plays at weekends usually and is very much about the pets'n'mounts'n'exploration achievs, and thus has crap gear and doesn't pull the most stellar DPS in the world. We're all on Skype though and she's perfectly competent.

Anyway, we start HHoS with this random warrior tank and after the first couple of pulls he starts giving her grief about her 1k DPS. We give him some grief back, nothing abusive just firmly telling him that he can leave if he has a problem with it. I'm healing, and my pally is pretty well geared now and a bit of an awesome healer, so we're not in any danger, just that stuff's dying slowly. We get to the end and tank says "that was awesome in the end, really good group, you all played very well and I'm sorry I bitched about your dps at the start, wanna farm some more heroics?".

Which was nice :)

[Lt.Dan]

I got caught out by the Dungeon Finder the other night.  I sign up for the daily heroic and get PoS.  I've healed through FoS a couple of times but this was just insane.   My poor druid has a GS of about 3600 and spellpower of about 1700 (with trinket buff up).  Everyone else in the group was GS 4500 or higher and the tank was 5100 or so.

We got through the first two bosses with a couple of deaths.  My healing strat was just HoT up the tank as he pulled then spam Wild Growth and Nourish to keep him alive.

We wiped twice in the packs of trash going up to the gauntlet.  I couldn't keep up with the damage on the tank and melee DPS. 

We wiped three times on the gauntlet as my HoTs pulled aggro on the mobs in the tunnel.  We wiped twice on Tyranus both at about 10%.

Did the Dungeon Finder screw me by putting me in a dungeon I was undergeared for or am I doing something wrong?

[Rasix]

You're under geared for it. However..

If your group wasn't single targetting down the trash packs and interrupting spell casts, they weren't doing you any favors.  If you didn't have anyone to cleanse off the disease, that could be problematic. If the tank wasn't kiting the Scourgelord over the snow patches, he must be supremely confident and more than slightly stupid.   

You shouldn't be healing before stops in the tunnel. That's somewhat on you. You'd have to bust a big heal on him once you stop, but a decently geared tank shouldn't splat before getting to the stop points.  Or your group should prepare to make minor stops along the way.  Most tanks have tools that would allow you to heal some (ferals in particular).

[Rendakor]

Not to sound like a bad here but...kiting the Scourgelord over snow patches? What does that do? Just limit his damage on you so dps can burn him down? I was way overgeared when those zones came out on my tank, so I've always just tank & spank'd him.

[Rasix]

Not to sound like a bad here but...kiting the Scourgelord over snow patches? What does that do? Just limit his damage on you so dps can burn him down? I was way overgeared when those zones came out on my tank, so I've always just tank & spank'd him.

When he hulks up.. there's a pause (or is that when he punts you too, dunno, not a tank).  You can kite him over the snow to pretty much avoid that damage.  This will help if the tank and/or healer are under geared and just can't stand toe to toe with him, since most wipes I've seen have been the tank going splat (well, most are the mobs near the cave bugging out and gibbing a healer).

[Sheepherder]

He hulks after the punt.

[Sjofn]

I just tank with my ass to an ice patch and then he nicely punts my ass over it and snares himself for me. 

[Zetor]

He takes damage from the ice patches as well, and they have a much bigger 'effective radius' for him compared to players.
In my latest H-POS run the tank died at 95% (healer was frozen) and my DK + the ret pally taunt ping-ponged him for the rest of the fight over ice patches; most of the damage was from the mage + ice patches. It took like 3 minutes but we got him down! 

[Dren]

I always kite him.  No reason to make your healer sweat, and my loss of dps is more than made up for by the ice patches.  I just keep agro up on him from a distance (easy cuz I'm a pally.)

[Rendakor]

Ahh, thanks; I didn't even know the ice patches affected him. I've never wiped on him, and it's only been close because of the casters one shotting someone. When he hulks up I've always just hit a cooldown and tanked through it.

[Rasix]

Interesting split last night.  Got into a HHOS with decent healer, but 2 bad DPS and a tank from the same guild.  The tank was the highest DPS out them and he was only at 1.5K DPS (not that I really care about tank DPS).   I'm doing more damage than all of them combined, still they managed to piss me off bad enough (over a BOE purp) that I left them to their fate.  If they got another bad DPS, the event could be pretty hilarius.

Then my next group is a HHOR (god, take this out of random, only 1 in 4 groups actually tries it).  Both DPS seem just right at the bubble for pulling it off but one is a mage and mages seem to do great regardless of gear.  Tank is pretty good but the healer was a stud.  We complete it easily, even if the hunter DPS was somewhat low and AEing where he should have been single targetting.  Both DPS die during due to aggro yanking during events, luckily they were spread far enough appart for the druid to battle rez them.

This was in stark contrast to a previous HHOR the day earlier where a tank starts off the group by bitching about the healer's gear (pro tip: shaman can pull this one off with less than stellar gear).  Then on the very first wave he manages to botch gaining any aggro and gets the healer flattened, blames it on macros.  Shaman pops and we're fine.  Next wave wipes the group because he doesn't pull aggro on anything and blames it on the hunter for not CCing.

[SurfD]

This was in stark contrast to a previous HHOR the day earlier where a tank starts off the group by bitching about the healer's gear (pro tip: shaman can pull this one off with less than stellar gear).  Then on the very first wave he manages to botch gaining any aggro and gets the healer flattened, blames it on macros.  Shaman pops and we're fine.  Next wave wipes the group because he doesn't pull aggro on anything and blames it on the hunter for not CCing.

How do you fuck up the FIRST wave in HHOR?  Isn't the first wave only 3 mobs?

[Rasix]

Yep.

[ezrast]

I just had a group pull without the tank, nearly wipe, blame at least two people, squabble over loot, and dramasplode within the first two pulls of Deadmines.

[Rendakor]

That about matches my experience in RFC the one time I tried. I wrote off /lfd until the 40s, at which point things were less terrible (or, no more terrible than they are at 80).

[Paelos]

We used to have a saying in our raids when people would fuck up: "This isn't fucking Deadmines"

I guess that no longer applies.

[Selby]

Tonight my n00b DK tank got tossed into the random queue for H-PoS.  I announced I was new to this instance and people should bail if they wanted, yet no one did (oddly enough - every time I announce "n00b tank character here" no one ever cares, just when I say nothing do people go "ur gear sux").  I only had 2 problems the entire run (watching other tanks ftw) and one was on that 2nd 5-mob pull after Ick and Krik.  The other was during the tunnel, right at the end I got splatted real quick.  During the run, we had this rogue, who while being nice, died like 5 times.  He never assisted me and always attacked a shackled target, which gave him aggro and he died.  You would think after the 3rd time he would have learned, but no, he didn't.  He only ended up doing like 1800DPS, and didn't even beat me as the tank for overall DPS.  Our healer was a real sport for how bad the run could have gone but didn't because he had awesome healing abilities.

[kildorn]

I just had a group pull without the tank, nearly wipe, blame at least two people, squabble over loot, and dramasplode within the first two pulls of Deadmines.

I had a ret paladin keep pulling in SM Armory on me.

So while the healer was drinking and he went and picked up the next pack, myself (the tank) and the other two DPS sat down next to the healer and waited.

He dies horribly, goes "wtf" and the response from the entire group is "you pull it, you tank it"

Rez him, and the rest of the instance goes quickly and quietly. God I hate when DPS decides they know so much better about the pull rate we should be going at, and keeps grabbing more pulls to inflate their AE DPS.

[Minvaren]

I've had two groups in the last couple days where the healer decided I wasn't pulling fast enough and started chain-pulling.  Both ended with the healer eating dirt, going "whoops," and having to jog back.

I've also found that HCoS runs turn out only one of two ways :

- Facerolling the instance with 5 minutes left on the Guardian's clock
- Limping up to Mal'Ganis after an hour with someone asking, "y no mount?"

[Wolf]

- Limping up to Mal'Ganis after an hour with someone asking, "y no mount?"

Really? I've never had that happen to me. That will be hell. The only difference for me is either I'm pulling 5k dps, or there's a warrior or a DK, so I'm doing barely 2k :)

[Rasix]

I've also found that HCoS runs turn out only one of two ways :

- Facerolling the instance with 5 minutes left on the Guardian's clock
- Limping up to Mal'Ganis after an hour with someone asking, "y no mount?"

5?  Damn, that's slow.  

Yah, the limpers I don't make it through.  It's usually a tank or healer that's too awful for the instance.  A recent HCOS had a paladin that couldn't keep aggro during the gauntlet at all, but kept charging ahead anyhow.  Healer dropped after the tank watched a ghoul beat him to death.  Guy often forgot to consecrate and never did that shield flinging thing once.  

Worse than that is a tank that's never been there before. "What do I do here?"  I know there are noobs, and people that have taken long breaks, but I didn't want to be in this stupid dungeon in the first place.  Noobs should stick to DPSing for a while.  It's easier when I'm doing enough DPS for the both of us. I can't tank for you (I can pull for you, but that's unethical). 

Had a tank yesterday that decided to go right first in HNexus.  After beating the rock guy, we run all the way back to the entrance and then go left.  "Are you high?" "Maybe" Then on the captain he fights the guy right at the spawn point.  "Pull him back."  No response.  Fear.  Wipe.  /leave

[Minvaren]

Yeah, I need to buy Arthas a mount for Winter Festival this year.  He might make it to the inn faster.   

Then on the captain he fights the guy right at the spawn point.  "Pull him back."  No response.  Fear.  Wipe.  /leave

Noone EVER backs up enough for Cptn. Spinnypants, it seems - but fighting him at the spawn point will wipe 1 out of 2 groups due to the fear.  Heck, a rogue or something ends up in the next group down no matter what I do.  Gets my "catch" skills with CS plenty of practice, in any case.

[Minvaren]

What does tick me off, however, are people who farm a instance (typically ICC-5) for a particular drop/achievement and don't even have the decency to tell the rest of the group... then silently dropping after accomplishing their goal. Things like
- hunters dropping after the first H-HOR boss when it doesn't drop the harpoon (you'd think this to be rare, but it has happened *twice* so far); this is extra fun as we had to 4-man the waves+second boss immediately afterwards.
- tanks dropping after the first n-HOR boss when it doesn't drop the shield, or even if it does; see above
- tanks dropping before the first boss in H-POS or H-FOS so they don't get saved and can keep farming those instances for their hilt (this was very prevalent after the release of the new instances, a bit rarer now).
- anyone asking the group to kill the sword in n/h-HOR (part of the QD questline, this is pretty rare nowadays), then immediately bailing.

Seriously, how hard is it to just go through the instance after you 'got what you came for'? Especially if they're as short as HOR and you see that the group "has what it takes" (otherwise you'd never get past Falric).

Ah hah, I did see this here.  I just had to post about this after the reg HoR run I had last night.

- Right off the bat, some guy pops the sword without warning.  Had never seen this before, but the group eventually all jumps in and mows it down.
- Healer and DPS leave after second boss (same time) with no warning.

As a DPS and I sat there in the queue for 20 minutes waiting to finish the last couple minutes of the instance, he laments people dropping over loot.  I ask if it happens a lot in HoR.  "Second time today" was his reply.  We eventually give up and quit.

HoL - yeah, I get why people ditch.  Same with Oculus, CoS, PoS, and ToC.  But if this one were any shorter, it'd be an amusement park ride.  Maybe the stats coming with 3.3.3+ will help cut down on this a bit.

[March]

Yeah... I'll add HTOC to the list now; when I was grinding it out before LFD, the Jousting just seemed like a fair admission price for the free purples...  Now it is just a shitty game mechanic no-one likes that acts as a cock-block pure and simple.  Depending on the group, the jousting lasts much longer than any boss fight.

If they either added an emblem and a loot table for jousting the bosses to death, or significantly reduced the jousting thingy altogether (I doubt they would kill it, but if it became symbolic nod to a failed idea I could live with that) I would consider it fixed.

[Dren]

They should make jousting scale with gear scores like the siege items in Ulduar. 

[apocrypha]

I have taken to saying at the start of HTOC "If you're mount gets low on health just run and jump on a new one - NO NEED TO DISMOUNT FIRST!". Cuts deaths down a lot I find.

In terms of bad groups though, I'm currently levelling a 77 resto druid by doing 1 random normal a day for the emblems. Oh my god 90% of those groups are painful. 10% of them are a walk in the park cos there's an 80 or two in there helping a guildy out, but the rest range from passable to totally awful. I just got a group in VH with 4 death knights and probably less braincells. Abandoned them after 2 wipes on Xevozz.

[Polysorbate80]

I never have troubles with party members when I'm tanking, but with my wife's holy paly it's about 50/50 whether the group will perform flawlessly or be a total trainwreck. 

One party (3 guildies, a random DPS and me) last night booted her toon because I followed the cardinal rule of "let the spaz aggro-drawing DPS die".  Turned out the idiots had decided that the person designated "Tank" by the LFD wasn't tanking; their tank was said aggro-drawing spaz.  Which I would have been fine with, if they had ever bothered to mention it to me at all.

The night wasn't a total loss, though.  There were sweet tears of grief from another retarded guild group when her need roll won the Tyrannical Beheader over their ret paly :)