Bad Groups

[Drubear]

Right, and there's no good work around if everyone clicks "DE" while you click Greed as you don't even have a chance to use the "5 minute grace" period to cajole the winner with a sob story about the Evils of Downranking armor. The DE is automatic on a greed roll win with that option hence the thought that if Greed was higher than DE but still lower than Need (but see the 'Chanter Ninja problem above.)

[Rendakor]

The problem (ninjas aside) with changing it like Dren wants is that it brings back the problem where having a higher tier of armor just allows you to gear out faster, at the expense of those with lower tier. Holy Pallies will roll need on everything with spellpower, hunters on agi leather, etc. which fucks over those of the lower tier.

Even allowing, for example, druids to need cloth when there are no clothies present would be of little use.

A real fix would simply be a fourth option, "Need - Offspec" that allowed you to Need anything you can equip. This would take priority over Greed and DE, but under Need.

[Dren]

I'd actually be fine with going the other route.  Force classes to lock into an armor type.  If you are a Druid, you can only wear leather and nothing else.  Doesn't help me get geared quicker, but certainly takes my frustration away.

I've sat there with a green item in slot and watched a purple get de'd many times.  As said though, there are so many chances anymore it isn't a huge issue, just annoying.

[Soulflame]

I have had a completely random PUG pass on a piece of cloth that dropped from heroic Tyrannus that my druid wanted, but couldn't need on, after I asked them if I could have it.  I've also traded for an item that dropped in HHoR.

Not really bad groups, I guess.  

[Dren]

I've also traded for an item that dropped in HHoR.

Yes, I've had that happen too, which is refreshing.  I've noticed the higher the instance and items, the more people are willing to do trading and slow down to get people what they need.  Certainly, shenanigans still happen in HHoR, but not as often, in my experience.

[Rasix]

A real fix would simply be a fourth option, "Need - Offspec" that allowed you to Need anything you can equip. This would take priority over Greed and DE, but under Need.

Seems like the only real logical solution.

This may create plate/mail/leather DE ninjas, but oh well.  It's just 10g or a shard.  Most people have already been pretty honorable about not needing stuff they don't really need.  Assholes will continue to be assholes.

And to add my own story of how great a guy I am, I actually gave a druid a ring I won a roll on because I thought the stats were better for him (I was on my DK).  Aren't I swell?

Actual bad groups have been less and less.  Sure I get the occasional DPS that needs to buy some blues and a real spec or a tank that watches mobs path for 20 seconds and tends to body pull out of sheer incompetence.  I haven't seen a dps go below 1200 lately.  It's been nice.

[Fordel]

I'd actually be fine with going the other route.  Force classes to lock into an armor type.  If you are a Druid, you can only wear leather and nothing else.  Doesn't help me get geared quicker, but certainly takes my frustration away.

Blizzard has openly debated doing just that more then once and it may come up again for Cata, especially in regards to the casting classes.

[Sheepherder]

body pull out of sheer incompetence

Am I alone with my DK in charging in and dropping D&D when the radius just barely covers the distance between me and the mobs?  I find it's the easiest way to position the mobs in my front arc while not losing D&D ticks.

[Rendakor]

I pull trash that way as well Sheepherder.

[Rasix]

body pull out of sheer incompetence

Am I alone with my DK in charging in and dropping D&D when the radius just barely covers the distance between me and the mobs?  I find it's the easiest way to position the mobs in my front arc while not losing D&D ticks.

Well, that would be competent.  I'm talking about idgits that run up to a group of mobs and stand there picking their nose for 2-3 seconds before doing anything that remotely resembles aggro generation or body pulls as an "ohh, I got too close before my brain kicked into gear" and seem surprised that they now have to tank. 

[Ingmar]

body pull out of sheer incompetence

Am I alone with my DK in charging in and dropping D&D when the radius just barely covers the distance between me and the mobs?  I find it's the easiest way to position the mobs in my front arc while not losing D&D ticks.

Well, that would be competent.  I'm talking about idgits that run up to a group of mobs and stand there picking their nose for 2-3 seconds before doing anything that remotely resembles aggro generation or body pulls as an "ohh, I got too close before my brain kicked into gear" and seem surprised that they now have to tank. 

Need more rage. At least if it is a warrior that can sometimes be the issue, especially if you have to pull stuff back rather than charging in. At normal PUG speed I can only bloodrage maybe every other pull and sometimes can't use charge. I guess in those cases I wouldn't be facepulling though.

[Sheepherder]

Think of the sit key as a second Bloodrage.

[Ingmar]

Think of the sit key as a second Bloodrage.

Well right, but they have to be hitting me for that to work.

I'm guessing a big part of Rasix's problem is that he plays a warlock and is probably getting aggro off of fel armor ticks early in these situations.

[kildorn]

Think of the sit key as a second Bloodrage.

Well right, but they have to be hitting me for that to work.

I'm guessing a big part of Rasix's problem is that he plays a warlock and is probably getting aggro off of fel armor ticks early in these situations.

Fucking Fel Armor. ><

[Rasix]

Fel Armor brings up a general gripe I have about the game: personal, class essential buffs on timers. 

I can't really count how many times I've forgotten to reapply Fel Armor, Windfury/Flametongue, or my poisons.  Most of the time it's a "man, my dps is sucking ass" before I remember.  At least with the warlock and shaman it's a bit easier to be proactive about it.

As for bad groups, I got griefed for the first time in a group the other day.  Tank and healer both seem a bit goofy at the start.  Healer refuses to heal any group damage other than the tank and himself.  After the first boss they warrior quits group, the healer goes to the next room, pulls the entire room and quits.   They were from my server so it was easy to add them to my ignore list.  BTW, can you add people from other servers to your ignore list?

[dd0029]

BTW, can you add people from other servers to your ignore list?

Yes, but I believe the one time I did it I had to manually type in the name.  The right click ignore thing did not seem to work.

[proudft]

Yep, just do /ignore Name-Server.  I have a lot of ignores from Undermine.  Not sure what's wrong with THAT server. 

[WindupAtheist]

As for bad groups, I got griefed for the first time in a group the other day.  Tank and healer both seem a bit goofy at the start.  Healer refuses to heal any group damage other than the tank and himself.  After the first boss they warrior quits group, the healer goes to the next room, pulls the entire room and quits.   They were from my server so it was easy to add them to my ignore list.  BTW, can you add people from other servers to your ignore list?

The random dungeon system is awesome, but let me tell you, it's given me an all new appreciation for the old bubblehearth.

[Hutch]

Fel Armor brings up a general gripe I have about the game: personal, class essential buffs on timers. 

I can't really count how many times I've forgotten to reapply Fel Armor, Windfury/Flametongue, or my poisons.  Most of the time it's a "man, my dps is sucking ass" before I remember.  At least with the warlock and shaman it's a bit easier to be proactive about it.

I use Power Auras for this. For my warlock, if I'm in combat and Fel Armor has dropped off, I get a flashing icon to warn me. With my hunter, I do the same with Aspect of the Dragonhawk. I doubt if Power Auras could help with poisons or flametongue though.

[Selby]

Yesterday was fun.  I get into H-PoS as a healer and the tank proceeds to run off and grab every mob.  And then ignore any of the little skeleton adds that come up.  I get healer aggro and die, then the tank calls me a fagot for not keeping the adds off of myself, and some shithead in the group goes "lolz, when you buy your priest?"  I tell them all to go fuck themselves and leave.  And I get a group in 30s by the time I can queue again.  As a healer I don't put up with anyone's shit anymore.  You can get a group almost as fast as a tank, so there is no reason to put up with it.

The other day I was yelled at for bubbling the druid tank and called (once again) a fagot over it.  So I stopped healing him at all except for Renew.  His health got pretty low by the end of the instance.  Seriously, unless you are *that* good of a tank or DPS, you need your healer.  Calling them names or yelling at them is the perfect way to rack up repair bills, and I won't feel sorry for being a little slow on the heal or not prioritizing you.  Oh, and when you run out of LoS with 25 mobs on you, don't blame the healer for not being able to get to you fast enough.

[Khaldun]

When all I want is frost emblems, I'm quite happy to get through an instance fast. But I'm getting a bit tired of having to play like a rhesus monkey that's had six double-espressos and a big dose of amphetamines all because some 14-year old needs to finish before his mommy turns his computer off.

[kildorn]

Yesterday was fun.  I get into H-PoS as a healer and the tank proceeds to run off and grab every mob.  And then ignore any of the little skeleton adds that come up.  I get healer aggro and die, then the tank calls me a fagot for not keeping the adds off of myself, and some shithead in the group goes "lolz, when you buy your priest?"  I tell them all to go fuck themselves and leave.  And I get a group in 30s by the time I can queue again.  As a healer I don't put up with anyone's shit anymore.  You can get a group almost as fast as a tank, so there is no reason to put up with it.

The other day I was yelled at for bubbling the druid tank and called (once again) a fagot over it.  So I stopped healing him at all except for Renew.  His health got pretty low by the end of the instance.  Seriously, unless you are *that* good of a tank or DPS, you need your healer.  Calling them names or yelling at them is the perfect way to rack up repair bills, and I won't feel sorry for being a little slow on the heal or not prioritizing you.  Oh, and when you run out of LoS with 25 mobs on you, don't blame the healer for not being able to get to you fast enough.

If you get yelled at for bubbling in a heroic, the tank is an idiot. I sat down and watched the rage generation on my warrior tank in a pug, and he seemed to have no issues even with overgearing enough that the bubble never fell off during trash packs.

But overall, my pug healing experiences have been pretty stellar.

[Arrrgh]

Yesterday was fun.  I get into H-PoS as a healer and the tank proceeds to run off and grab every mob.  And then ignore any of the little skeleton adds that come up.  I get healer aggro and die, then the tank calls me a fagot for not keeping the adds off of myself, and some shithead in the group goes "lolz, when you buy your priest?"  I tell them all to go fuck themselves and leave.  And I get a group in 30s by the time I can queue again.  As a healer I don't put up with anyone's shit anymore.  You can get a group almost as fast as a tank, so there is no reason to put up with it.

The other day I was yelled at for bubbling the druid tank and called (once again) a fagot over it.  So I stopped healing him at all except for Renew.  His health got pretty low by the end of the instance.  Seriously, unless you are *that* good of a tank or DPS, you need your healer.  Calling them names or yelling at them is the perfect way to rack up repair bills, and I won't feel sorry for being a little slow on the heal or not prioritizing you.  Oh, and when you run out of LoS with 25 mobs on you, don't blame the healer for not being able to get to you fast enough.

That's when you click leave right after he pulls.

[Zetor]

Druids get a ton of rage for critting, which they'll be doing often doing the 'heroic tanking rotation' (ie swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe with maul permanently queued). On my drood I almost never run out of rage in a heroic (except for scripted events / downtime), no matter how hard I faceroll over my swipe+maul hotkey. That's with savage defense absorb proccing on almost every attack; I don't notice priest/pally shields either.

So yeah, any tank that complains about a priest bubbling them (especially a disc priest) is kinda silly, unless they're a way overgeared prot pally who doesn't use blessing of sanctuary + permanent divine plea.

[SurfD]

Actually, all rage based tank (and probably DK's also if they get RP from being hit) now generate rage from absorbed damage (it has been that way since early Wrath i believe).  Priests can bubble you all they want, you are still getting that rage.  Paladins are probably the only ones affected by it, since their mana return talent requires them to be healed to actually generate mana back (overheals / shields do not work from what i know)

[Rendakor]

Speaking of bubbling tanks, I had a really bad low level experience on my bear tank the other day. Had a ret pally who kept hitting me with Hand of Protection in combat, getting the healer killed several times. Finally got him to knock it off, and found that he was still pulling aggro himself. A quick look at recount shows that he's using his taunt, and won't stop despite my request "bc it does dmg lol". 

[Rasix]

Edit: Hmm. Post I was responding to was deleted.   

[Ingmar]

Its been well over a year at this point since shields stopped rage generation I think.

I had a bad one the other night on my leveling ret paladin. Level 70 druid tank with his buddy a level 65 priest who was really not quite up to the task in Sethekk Halls. Caused a couple wipes as the tank skipped packs that the 65 immediately proximity pulled because he was 3-4 levels lower than them, and yet he refused to slow down a little. I was the only dps who stuck it out, we had 4 or 5 people in those last dps slots as they kept getting disgusted and dropping. I only stayed because I could stay alive on all the non-wipe failure pulls of which there were several. Probably 3 times it came down to just me and the tank alive, including the final boss. The weirdest moment was a new warlock came in to replace about the 4th guy who dropped, and asked the tank to stop moving the piles around so much so he could AE, and the tank FLIPPED OUT. "Don't you FUCKING DARE to tell me how to tank!" Then he and his healer buddy went on like a several minute tear about how the warlock was a total noob for speccing affliction (which I don't understand at all) mostly in high school text speak. It was almost funny in a sad sort of way.

If ret dps wasn't absolutely ridiculous with an heirloom weapon we'd probably never have finished. On the plus side being an OP ret paladin has probably saved every group I did 60-70, I don't think I've done under 40% of the group damage yet, and most of my grouping experiences have continued to be positive. This is the first one with actual assholes in it I have had since the first week or so of the patch.

[Nebu]

Don't be so overly dramatic.  It's a MMO.  People will ruin it from time to time.   If shit went smoothly ever time, I'd probably quit out of boredom.

My bad. 

Post deleted.

[Rasix]

Bah, I'm just giving you crap.  

Point is: bad tanks suck, bad dps suck, and bad healers suck.  Patch 3.3 is still FANTASTIC.   It's really right up your alley as far as some of the complaints you have about the game.

[Jayce]

Its been well over a year at this point since shields stopped rage generation I think.

This is awesome to know. I have a 66 disc priest waiting to level by dungeon, but I wasn't sure if it was a choice of penance spam or dual spec holy for me.  I know there are disc priests healing raids, but that presumes the presence of other healers.

I suppose this is better posted in the stupid questions thread, but whatever.

[kildorn]

Its been well over a year at this point since shields stopped rage generation I think.

This is awesome to know. I have a 66 disc priest waiting to level by dungeon, but I wasn't sure if it was a choice of penance spam or dual spec holy for me.  I know there are disc priests healing raids, but that presumes the presence of other healers.

I suppose this is better posted in the stupid questions thread, but whatever.

Due to how Disc works, the tank should always, always have Weakened Soul on him, so spam shield away.

I really wish reflective shield worked on anyone but the casting priest, though. Bastards.

[Selby]

Its been well over a year at this point since shields stopped rage generation I think.

Exactly.  I can understand years ago when it did affect rage generation, I didn't do it then (we wiped in MC years ago because a priest kept spamming PW:S on all of the tanks and no one could generate rage ;-) ).  Now, Blizzard changed it so that it doesn't affect rage generation at all.  But try arguing with your average mental midget who knows everything there is to know.  I mean, 2 of my healers have successfully healed the first 5 bosses of ICC (with crazy healing #s too), but apparently I suck at heroics since I don't know what to do.

On a side note, it seems that H-PoS is very buggy about whether stones appear or not on the first boss.  23 stacks are just hard to heal the entire group through.  After wiping due to LoS issues, we get a new Unholy dual-wielding DK tank.  He holds aggro decently, but he is VERY fragile and doesn't exactly pull the best so I had some serious healing required to keep everyone up there.  But what saved it from being a horrible run was he thanked us all for the run and said we were a good group.

[Ingmar]

Anyone who still has their frost resist gear from Sapphiron/Hodir days should put it on for Garfrost. Having a non trivial amount of FR makes full resists of his permafrost ticks happen reasonably often which will let the debuff expire and fall off. It makes the fight much less stressful on healers.

Don't be like me and forget to take it back off afterwards until 2 instances later though. 

[Selby]

Anyone who still has their frost resist gear from Sapphiron/Hodir days should put it on for Garfrost.

Yeah, we had 2 pallies and neither gave us the frost resist aura either.  We joked that it was a pretty fail run for us.