Ulduar

[Rasix]

As long as you aren't raid stacking, very few buffs/debuffs are hard to get. Grace/Sanct is one (disc priests or a pally buff are your only options), and the bleed increase is the other I can think of. Maybe totem of wrath, but I don't entirely know what it's crit does/does not stack with.

Mostly I think your raid just needs a better DPS rotation on a few people, and mainly reaction speed when the fight changes. The % time on in the WWS is really varied based on player, but I don't really like WWS stats on add-heavy fights anyways. It just seems like people weren't hopping back on razorscale fast enough during ground phases and the fight just took too long.

Totem of Wrath is neat. I was amused when I saw that it places a debuff on mobs.  Makes the placement of it a little interesting, but shouldn't cause problems unless a shaman is placing it farther away from the mob than they are. I don't think it should have any stacking issues except with itself and flametongue totem.

Are you running with a shadow priest or moonkin?  It's nice if you can cut 3% hit off your caster's spell hit needs.

I think I'll be doing 10 and 25 man Ulduar this week for the first time.  I moved to a bigger and more competent guild that raids closer to times I can attend.  Of course, I joined right after big split where the guild I joined is getting roasted alive on the forums    I can't seem to get away from this kind of crap.

[Ingmar]

Ret pallies provide the same 'puts crit on other things' debuff, and the spellpower bonus is a flat 280, doesn't stack with other spellpower buffs - flametongue, imp divine spirit, and whatever it is that one spec of warlocks provides that gives everyone 10% of their spelldamage - once the warlocks hit 2800 spellpower totem of wrath is eclipsed.

[Nevermore]

the bleed increase is the other I can think of.

Mangle?  You mean I'll always have a spot in raids, and not just because of my good looks? 

[Ingmar]

the bleed increase is the other I can think of.

Mangle?  You mean I'll always have a spot in raids, and not just because of my good looks? 

Arms warriors give it too now. 

[Nevermore]

[Fordel]

Ret pallies provide the same 'puts crit on other things' debuff, and the spellpower bonus is a flat 280, doesn't stack with other spellpower buffs - flametongue, imp divine spirit, and whatever it is that one spec of warlocks provides that gives everyone 10% of their spelldamage - once the warlocks hit 2800 spellpower totem of wrath is eclipsed.

Oh a mere 2800 spellpower? 

[Ingmar]

Ret pallies provide the same 'puts crit on other things' debuff, and the spellpower bonus is a flat 280, doesn't stack with other spellpower buffs - flametongue, imp divine spirit, and whatever it is that one spec of warlocks provides that gives everyone 10% of their spelldamage - once the warlocks hit 2800 spellpower totem of wrath is eclipsed.

Oh a mere 2800 spellpower? 

It was starting to happen in fully geared 25 man raids even before Ulduar. What I don't know is what happens when a lock only hits 2801 because there's a ToW down. Possibly it is like putting a bag of holding in a portable hole. 

[Vash]

Oh a mere 2800 spellpower? 

Just saw a video the other day of a Demo warlock in full Naxx 25 gear, who through talents/self buffs/cooldowns could get their spellpower to almost 5k.  The key to getting spellpower this high is the talent that gives them a % of their pet's health and mana as spellpower + the buff when their pet crits.  When combined with the Berserker buff his Soulfire was critting for over 20k and 1 shotting people.  The era of the 1 shot has apparently returned!   

I can post a link when I get home if anyone is interested in seeing the carnage (and the lols cause he is a clicker which makes the people who take pvp very seriously rage even more).

[Rasix]

I wonder if they'll end up moving wrath spell damage increase to some sort of % based increase due to shaman whining over scaling post Ulduar.  Something nifty that'd be a nerf to low end groups and actually keep pace with end high progression. 

Thanks to your totem of wrath comments I looked on the class forums for the first time since the expansion released (I usually confine myself to EJ).  Apparently elemental shaman are noticing anywhere from a 300 to 1k DPS reduction once they dual spec.     I had no idea.  My patchwerk seemed a bit low but heh, I'm having a hard time believing it.

[Drubear]

Yes, I am looking for something just like that, but in Addon form.

Bonus points if it can watch buffs/debuffs and tell me if someone isn't doing their job.

Quick Google-fu suggests: http://wow.curseforge.com/projects/raid-buff-slots/ YMMV etc. etc. etc.

[Ingmar]

I wonder if they'll end up moving wrath spell damage increase to some sort of % based increase due to shaman whining over scaling post Ulduar.  Something nifty that'd be a nerf to low end groups and actually keep pace with end high progression. 

Thanks to your totem of wrath comments I looked on the class forums for the first time since the expansion released (I usually confine myself to EJ).  Apparently elemental shaman are noticing anywhere from a 300 to 1k DPS reduction once they dual spec.     I had no idea.  My patchwerk seemed a bit low but heh, I'm having a hard time believing it.

That is very very odd. I haven't dual specced mine yet - I wonder what could be causing that? Maybe some talents aren't registering when they switch back to elemental?

[kildorn]

I checked, EJ doesn't mention it, and the thread seems to include a lot of dual specced people going "uh, no?"

From what I can tell, it's people who went into Uld and are reporting lower DPS because the fights involve more movement and retargeting, then comparing it to their best patch runs.

In other news, Ony deep breaths more since the patch.

[Rasix]

That is very very odd. I haven't dual specced mine yet - I wonder what could be causing that? Maybe some talents aren't registering when they switch back to elemental?

Prevailing though seems to be that there's some sort of bug preventing elemental oath from working like it should.  Perhaps a buff conflict with mages (crit bonus from EO not stacking) and boomkins (moonkin aura overwrites elemental oath apparently)  that I suppose you'd only see in certain situations (others say it's all over). Combined with melee getting more out of haste/armor pen and you'd seeing some elementals saying they're tumbling down the DPS charts. 

But yah, no stink from the number crunchers.  So, I doubt it.  I doubt any are reporting apples to apples.

[kildorn]

Tumbling down the DPS charts is something else entirely. Losing DPS and losing DPS meters are often confused.

I always hate the "what class wins meters now OMG" shit though. Honestly, as long as they're within a few percent of each other, I'm fine with any DPS setup that isn't 80 goddamned melees, since every other fight punishes tons of melee dps.

[Fordel]

We just need our DeathKnights to spec IceTouch spam.

[Nevermore]

Unlikely, since they nerfed Icy Touch.

[Sjofn]

Honestly, as long as they're within a few percent of each other, I'm fine with any DPS setup that isn't 80 goddamned melees, since every other fight punishes tons of melee dps.

WHY DO YOU HATE OUR RAIDS

[Vash]

Thanks to your totem of wrath comments I looked on the class forums for the first time since the expansion released (I usually confine myself to EJ).  Apparently elemental shaman are noticing anywhere from a 300 to 1k DPS reduction once they dual spec.     I had no idea.  My patchwerk seemed a bit low but heh, I'm having a hard time believing it.

One of the shamans in my guild mentioned last night that his lava burst appears to be doing significantly less damage now.

Any chance they lowered lava burst damage as a stealth nerf to shaman burst damage in pvp?

I know Ele shamans aren't exactly pvp powerhouses but even Resto shamans which are fairly well represented at the moment can kick out some nice situational burst damage with a lava burst.

[Azaroth]

I always hate the "what class wins meters now OMG" shit though. Honestly, as long as they're within a few percent of each other, I'm fine with any DPS setup that isn't 80 goddamned melees, since every other fight punishes tons of melee dps.

Is this still the case in Ulduar?

[kildorn]

I always hate the "what class wins meters now OMG" shit though. Honestly, as long as they're within a few percent of each other, I'm fine with any DPS setup that isn't 80 goddamned melees, since every other fight punishes tons of melee dps.

Is this still the case in Ulduar?

Have not witnessed personally, but it's just been true for the majority of WoW's history. There will always be a "spread out" phase, and it will always fuck melee heavy raids due to needing to be in the same place to dps.

[Rendakor]

Not sure about Ulduar but the new guy in VoA is very unfriendly to melee heavy raids. Between the nova/chainlightning and having to run back and forth between boss and adds regularly, you really don't want a ton of melee in there.

[Oban]

Last night in EoE10 my rogue did 34.2% of the raid's overall damage.

Have to say I am pretty happy with the patch.

[Merusk]

Last night in EoE10 my rogue did 34.2% of the raid's overall damage.

Have to say I am pretty happy with the patch.

I love days like that.  Or when you're in a 5-man heroic and the people are commenting about how fast the group is going, then you look at recount and see you did 50% or greater of the total damage for the run.  Woo!

[Vash]

I just found out about a new development in the battle of Blizzard vs. Hardcore raiders last night.

Apparently a few guilds have managed to unlock Alagon in 10-man Ulduar already, which is no small feat since it requires beating the hard modes of Iron Council, Freya, Thorim, Hodir, and Myrimon to create the key.  The interesting development is that after trying Alagon for 1 hour he despawns, much like Vael of old in BWL.  Even more interesting is that Blizzard confirmed he will not respawn again until the next week so you only get 1 hour to try him per week.

This has become a pretty polarizing issue as people who like the lockout and people hate it or think it's lame duke it out flame war style on the internets.

One thing is for sure, it appears he really will have plenty of tears to feast on.   

[Ingmar]

It doesn't really bother me much. I say that knowing I won't see him for MONTHS though.

[Paelos]

Considering I'll never see it, I don't really care. However, the one hour mechanic a week does seem a little stupid. They are basically admitting that they can't make an encounter hard enough to stifle the uber playerbase anymore, so instead they are going to bottleneck the access to content. Doesn't that defeat the point of even having content in the first place?

[Rasix]

Ulduar is pretty interesting so far.  How many healers are people running with in the 10 man version?  We ran 2 for XT and the tantrums didn't have much margin for error.  I was tossing LHWs during them as chain heal can be pretty ineffective in that situation. 

Still, fun boss mechanics so far even if Flame Leviathan is a bit easy.  Got the first good looking helm I've had since before Outland of XT.

[Ingmar]

Considering I'll never see it, I don't really care. However, the one hour mechanic a week does seem a little stupid. They are basically admitting that they can't make an encounter hard enough to stifle the uber playerbase anymore, so instead they are going to bottleneck the access to content instead. Doesn't that defeat the point of even having content in the first place?

Eh, I don't think that's the right way to look at that particular encounter. Algalon is a special little bonus encounter for the hardcore people. It isn't THE CONTENT of Ulduar. It is the cow level.

[Paelos]

Right, but I don't think restrictive timing is the way to make something harder. It's a way to make it more frustrating and ridiculous, but I don't think that increases the actual difficulty of said boss.

I would hate for something like that to start becoming the norm. What if we could only fight Arthas once a week because he's so uber, so some shit like that.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Consider it adding perma-death to the game.

[Ingmar]

I don't think they'll do it on anything that is part of the normal zone progression. I think they learned their lesson with Vael.

[Phunked]

Considering I'll never see it, I don't really care. However, the one hour mechanic a week does seem a little stupid. They are basically admitting that they can't make an encounter hard enough to stifle the uber playerbase anymore, so instead they are going to bottleneck the access to content. Doesn't that defeat the point of even having content in the first place?

TLDR: At least I get a chance to sleep now.

Real Response: It's an optional hard mode only boss not required for instance progression. It exists only to make sure that hardcore players have some other measurement for their virtual phallic projections beyond "we beat the lag boss and got H:GOTR an hour before you did, you're bad-E we're super pro and I'm sorry, I have to go now because these supermodels are just insatiable in their desire to pleasure me". That said, I'm sure I'll be bitching about it when we get a 5% wipe and our hour for the week runs out or something. But at least this way, you don't have to corpse canon the boss the moment it comes alive, even if your fiance is already done raiding with her casual guild and is in bed making eyes at you, wondering why you seem to prefer server first to sex.

I mean...

[Simond]

Right, but I don't think restrictive timing is the way to make something harder. It's a way to make it more frustrating and ridiculous, but I don't think that increases the actual difficulty of said boss.

I would hate for something like that to start becoming the norm. What if we could only fight Arthas once a week because he's so uber, so some shit like that.

Well, the other ways Blizzard have tried to make ultra-hard bosses varies between "No, we've done the maths and this isn't actually physically possible" followed by a hotfix and an immediate defeat of the mob (C'thun) and "We can do this, we just need to stack half the raid with class X and the other half with classes Y and Z. Sorry, everyone else, you can't take part" (whatsitsface in the Sunwell). For the sorts of people already complaining about Alganon there's pretty much no grey area between "tricky but very doable" and "impossible" without having things like forced raid stacking (which is a Bad Idea) or other gimmicks...like a one hour/week shot at the boss.

[Fabricated]

People are way better at the game than they used to be and the interface mods are way better than at the start of WoW. The only way to give any boss a reasonably long life is to as said, come as close to mathematically impossible as you can or to gimmick it up. Not a bad idea IMO since it means whatever the uber-guild of the month is can't just take a week off of work (if they have a job) and zerg the fuck out of the boss for 100 hours straight until it goes down.

1 freaking hour per lockout is a bit ridiculous IMO but I think some time restrictions on something like Algalon aren't too bad of idea. It'll show if some of these uberguilds are as good as they claim to be or if they're just a 1000 monkeys on a 1000 typewriters.

[Lakov_Sanite]

1 freaking hour per lockout is a bit ridiculous IMO but I think some time restrictions on something like Algalon aren't too bad of idea. It'll show if some of these uberguilds are as good as they claim to be or if they're just a 1000 monkeys on a 1000 typewriters.

That's my thought on the matter as well. Yes an hour timer is ludicrous but that's the point. This is an epeen boss plain and simple and what better way than to give you only few attempts to beat him? There's no corpse runs in baseball or tennis, if you lose, you lose. You don't get 30 tries to beat the red sox until you finally get lucky and they make a bad play.

I'm in a guild that beats our heads repeatedly on bosses. We're server best but we're not super hardcore or even all that good overall, we're just the most stubborn and it gets us places. I don't think I'll ever kill algalon in my guild because we are the 'corpse cannon' types but I'm ok with that because I'm not overly concerned with the size of my digital schlong(unlike dr manhatten)

In other news, they completely unfucked mimiron and his trash! still hardest boss in there so far but at least not impossible.