Inglourious Basterds

[HaemishM]

You're really losing me here now. I don't think I've ever even seen a Carrot Top skit. I thought he was a prop comedian?

He is, and sometimes he's funny. Sometimes it just goes way past the point from funny into retarded. And then there's his exercise regime.

[Tarami]

Yell at me if I'm wrong, but what I think Haemish is trying to say is basically;

Tarantino would make better movies if he didn't try so hard to make them to fill the shoes of some arbitrary, retro cult film genre and instead just told the story as it needed to be told.

If Haemish isn't trying to say that, then I am.

[stray]

He did that once (Jackie Brown, which he adapted from an Elmore Leonard novel). It wasn't bad, but it didn't necessarily improve anything.


Anyways, I don't argue that Kill Bill should be for everyone - In some ways, I kind of wish he didn't make it. For completely different reasons than some here. I just think he'd have been better off giving a nod to some of the genres and archetypes in Kill Bill through smaller movies. I would have rather seen him, for example, pay tribute to Asian cinema by making a smaller kung fu or samurai movie. Or I would have rather seen him show his expertise with horror rather than just having some burial scene in KB (which was really well done though, despite it all). Or rocksalt shooting shitkickers like Michael Madsen's character - that guy probably deserves his own film.

I don't even expect people to like Death Proof, but I do think it's in the right direction.. It's a smaller genre movie. Not all of it seems thought through though. It was meant to be viewed back to back in Grindhouse, and was cut much shorter -- while in the full DVD version, he includes scenes that sort of drag it on. And these scenes just look like afterthoughts to the original intent of the shorter, more furious Grindhouse version. The girls carry on too much, and just too many prolonged shots of the actresses. Basically, they just seem like things he was having fun with in the meantime, while filming the core of the story, which he probably had a lot more fleshed out in his head. He then included them in the DVD version to make a singular, feature length movie out of all of it.

All that said, it's killer directing. Some of the writing may have been on-location afterthoughts, but the guy does know how to shoot things. I still find much of it thrilling, so I'm not going to complain too much. I suppose one of these days he'll get back to form and have directing, narrative, and dialogue at equal levels (but then again, he doesn't have Roger Avary anymore either.. it's been said numerous times that this is what the big difference between his old movies and new ones is).

[dusematic]

Yell at me if I'm wrong, but what I think Haemish is trying to say is basically;

Tarantino would make better movies if he didn't try so hard to make them to fill the shoes of some arbitrary, retro cult film genre and instead just told the story as it needed to be told.

If Haemish isn't trying to say that, then I am.

Perhaps, but that's what he's inspired by as a movie fan.  He seems to start off with an idea of, "I'll make a blax-ploitation film!" or "I'll make a spaghetti Western film!" and then go from there. 

[stray]

Yeah, there's some interesting info on that about his early films. Roger Avary apparently wrote a small script called "The Open Road", which was kind of a road trip/lost weekend sort of romp between two friends.. Something happened though where Avary wanted Tarantino to play with it and rewrite it -- he said Quentin later came back with a gigantic 500 page handwritten story, loosely based on the main premise, but what Avary called the Citizen Kane of American pop culture. Something that touched on multiple things like Kill Bill. Mafia, hitmen, pimps, comic books, Elvis, serial killers, etc.. So basically, Tarantino has always been that way, left to his own devices.

Some shit happened though where they decided to split the thing into 2 parts, and they rewrote those parts to be their own unique stories - These were True Romance and Natural Born Killers. Then the leftovers were recycled for material put into Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. Avary also had a seperate story that became the Gold Watch/Bud parts of Pulp Fiction. Among other shit.

So Quentin wrote most of this shit - but Avary was able to rein him in, and make all of his pop culture obsession charming instead of overwhelming. You rarely heard people complain too much about this, until Kill Bill. Now it's easy to focus on his obsessions, because he's left to writing on his own.

[HaemishM]

Tarantino would make better movies if he didn't try so hard to make them to fill the shoes of some arbitrary, retro cult film genre and instead just told the story as it needed to be told.

That too.

Also:

So Quentin wrote most of this shit - but Avary was able to rein him in, and make all of his pop culture obsession charming instead of overwhelming. You rarely heard people complain too much about this, until Kill Bill. Now it's easy to focus on his obsessions, because he's left to writing on his own.

Which is why I've said he needs a producer to slap the shit out of him and tell him no, you stupid douche, enough is enough. He doesn't know when to stop.

One of the important lessons I learned in art school is that you have to learn when a painting is finished. Some never learn that on their own and require someone else to tell them when it's finished. Some authors need editors (like me), Tarantino needs a goddamn conscience with a billy club.

[stray]

Oh.. you just want him to rein in a conscience? Still on the violence kick again? Then I disagree. You keep on thinking he's some torture film director or something - I don't know why. He's indulgent on displaying his pop culture schtick on screen, but he's everything from ingenious to loony-toons when it comes to violence. But never indulgent and cruel.

I'm not amoral or anything - I know when things really get too far, but Tarantino isn't it. Torture is prolonged as I said. Even true gore is all about focused closeups: Go watch the Thing or Verhoven or Cronenberg for some examples of that. Camp gore: Watch a Troma film. Tarantino? Even in slow motion, the extent of gore in Death Proof's car crash scene is obscured. And if you talk about other movies.. like that dude's brains exploding on the backseat in Pulp Fiction: That was yet another bit written by Avary. The same Avary who also adapted Silent Hill. He's far more violent than Tarantino is. He would focus Tarantino's ideas more into some more cohesive - but I highly doubt he'd be the guy for Tarantino to tone down violence.

[HaemishM]

You seem to be confused. You seem to think I have a problem with the depiction of violence as some form of moral offense. You are incorrect. I have no problem with violent movies. I just think that at some point, it crosses a line from necessary violence into ridiculous caricature. Death Proof and Kill Bill both crossed those lines. It's not as if I'm saying that's a line that should NEVER be crossed, I'm saying that crossing that imaginary line can only be done well by people with more talent than Tarantino has ever had.

Death Proof is a revenge fantasy created by a masochistic twat who likes to get beat up by women.

[stray]

Where does he say he likes getting beat up by women? Give me a real criticism here, or explain yourself.

[DraconianOne]

It was meant to be viewed back to back in Grindhouse, and was cut much shorter -- while in the full DVD version, he includes scenes that sort of drag it on.

This is why I didn't like Death Proof. In the UK we only ever had access to the longer, single release version so I ended up watching both this and Planet Terror on DVD. The versions I have didn't even come with any of the mock trailers that were shown between the two films.  Anyway, as I've only ever seen the "extended" cut of Death Proof, I just found that it dragged interminably.  There was a very simplistic story about the Stuntman Mike that was interrupted by never fucking ending scenes of these girls sitting around talking about, well, nothing. Those scenes really held up the film, didn't progress the story and turned me off the whole thing.

Criticising the violence in Death Proof seems a bit redundant to me though. It's like criticising Friday the 13th part whatever for showing graphic violence agaiinst teens or Leprechaun 4 for having entirely ridiculous plot. If you put a Final Destination film in the DVD player, you would expect to see a group of people getting killed in highly implausible but imaginative ways - anything less would be a disappointment (if you're a fan, that is). Death Proof was Tarantino doing a slasher film: there's going to be a gore and explicit scenes of violence. But, having said that, I do understand what you mean. If it turns out you saw the same version as I did - the extended cut - then the violence was definitely out of place in the context of an otherwise dialogue heavy film.

Which is why I've said he needs a producer to slap the shit out of him and tell him no, you stupid douche, enough is enough. He doesn't know when to stop.

Death Proof was the first film he's directed that didn't have Lawrence Bender as a producer. They've worked together from the start on Reservoir Dogs and Bender's back to production duties on Inglourious Basterds. As for Avary, I don't think he can take any of the credit for the success of Pulp Fiction or True Romance. Everything he's done since has been, well, pretty mediocre.

[stray]

I disagree. The Rules of Attraction is great. And one of the only college films that isn't satirical or about some triumph over adversity shit.

[Evil Elvis]

I like Death Proof well enough.  The chase scene alone is reason to watch this movie, even if you skip right to it on the DVD.  There is a lot of chit-chat, even by Tarantino standards, though.  If that puts you off in his other movies, you'll absolutely hate this one.  I'm not sure what scenes they put back into the extended version aside from the lap dance scene, but it's hard to hate on that :0

As far as the car crash scene, it's exactly what it's supposed to be: completely over-the-top, schlocky b-movie violence.  It's an "oh shit.. OH SHIT" moment, and I found it amusing in its ridiculousness.  Personally, I can't stomach movies like Hostel, and I couldn't even make it all the way through Planet Terror.  This movie didn't bother me at all.

[HaemishM]

Speaking of Avary, I liked Killing Zoe well enough. And Silent Hill would have been good if not for the disjointed ending.

[stray]

On a sidenote, by the way, Van Der Beek's character in Rules of Attraction, is Patrick Bateman's little brother. Heh. Not sure if there's a book on their parents. There should be, considering..

[DraconianOne]

Silent Hill felt like the smartest of Avary's scripts in that it started out exploring specific themes of motherhood and loss but the third act was, as you say, disjointed. I think most of the strength of the film was in Christophe Gans' direction and the production design. There were some excellent moments like the corridor of nurses which really made it stand out. The script, not so much.

Rules of Attraction I couldn't make it through. It bored me - possibly because the main characters were so dislikeable and apathetic themselves. That maybe the point of the film and I get that but there's no need to make them so unsympathetic that I have no interest in what happens to them. Compare Trainspotting which had a whole bunch of generally unlikeable losers that you actually gave a shit about. I kept meaning to go back to see RoA but it felt too much like a chore. I will admit to a certain antipathy towards Brett Easton Ellis who I can't stand as an author but that didn't stop me enjoying the film version of American Psycho.

Killing Zoe was totally forgettable. I think it only became known because it rode on the back of Reservoir Dogs' popularity. What I mostly remember about it was how contrived it all seemed. Julie Delpy just happened to be both a call girl who came to see Eric Stoltz and work in the bank that he had come to rob? Quelle coincedence. It wasn't a bad film - I didn't think any of the stuff Avary has done is bad. I just don't think any of it was great either.

[stray]

Either way, he seemed to be an invaluable, although not always tangible, element to Tarantino's process. I wish they'd just get in a room together again and churn something out.

[HaemishM]

There isn't a room large enough for Avary, Tarantino and Tarantino's ego.

[stray]

Hmm, if Tarantino's ego was that big, then he wouldn't be able to partner with anyone (namely, Rodriguez), wouldn't pimp out and invest money in other filmmakers, and attract many people to be a part of his movies, both respected actors and respected crew... Nor would he have shared so many ideas with Avary in the first place if he was that egotistic. Who knows what the deal is between them... But it probably isn't some "Quentin Tarantino is the Bogeyman" scenario that you keep making everything about the guy to be.

[ahoythematey]

Trailer 2 is out.  Looks fun. 

[fuser]

I don't know, some early reviews make it seem reallllly bad(Ton's of spoilers).

[ahoythematey]

I'm poking the bear, stop killing my birthday buzz, man.

[HaemishM]

Yep, still not really giving much of a shit about this.

[K9]

RT has it at 60% based on 15 reviews

[Arnold]

Death Proof sucked monkey ass swimming in moose piss from a chilled glass. This will likely do the same. I sure as fuck will wait for DVD if I see it at all.

Haha, Death Proof is one of my favorite Tarantino movies.  It's just pure fun!

[waffel]

Death Proof was amazing. The only way one might not like it is if one has down syndrome.

[Margalis]

Or if one doesn't like listening to women gab about useless shit for an hour.

[HaemishM]

Or if one doesn't like listening to women gab about useless shit for an hour...

And then take 10 minutes to beat the shit out of Kurt Russell in the most drawn out piece of cinematic piss taking in history. Death Proof was boring shit.

[waffel]

omgawd dialog is so hard 2 understand! why isn't there moar exploshions?!

[Margalis]

The other night I watched Bunny Lake is Missing.

Lots and lots of explosions in that one -the CGI was incredible. You've really got me pegged.

[Samwise]

The other night I watched Bunny Lake is Missing.

INTERWEB FILM CRITIC CREDENTIALS ESTABLISHED.

[Margalis]

Hee hee.

I only bring it up to counter the retarded 'splosions argument.

One of my favorite movies is Linklater's Tape and that entire movie is nothing but talking. Of course it had a good script, something notably absent from Death Proof.

[ahoythematey]

You are talking about a movie made as part of the Grindhouse package.

[stray]

Hee hee.

I only bring it up to counter the retarded 'splosions argument.

One of my favorite movies is Linklater's Tape and that entire movie is nothing but talking.

I love that movie too. I believe it was originally a play though. Kind of had a Mamet feel with the sparseness and all (also mostly plays).

[Ragnoros]

So did everyone write this one off?

Just got back from a showing and both me and my friend were very pleasantly surprised. Brad Pitt was awesome every time he was on screen and Christoph Waltz absolutely stole the show.

I think by now everyone here knows whether they like Tarantino's work or not. Inglorious Bastards is very much a Quentin Tarantino film, and while it will probably not change anyones mind about Tarantino if you like his work Inglorious Bastards is definitely worth a watch.

[Velorath]

So did everyone write this one off?

Just got back from a showing and both me and my friend were very pleasantly surprised. Brad Pitt was awesome every time he was on screen and Christoph Waltz absolutely stole the show.

I think by now everyone here knows whether they like Tarantino's work or not. Inglorious Bastards is very much a Quentin Tarantino film, and while it will probably not change anyones mind about Tarantino if you like his work Inglorious Bastards is definitely worth a watch.

I had to do a test run of it a couple days before release.  Just didn't bother mentioning it because, like you said, people know by now whether they like Tarantino's work or not.