Dollhouse

[Wasted]

Episode 6 or so a couple of weeks ago seemed to be taking the show the right way but following week (the drug one) was fucking awful, disgustingly contrived and poorly acted.  Only a few moments of the science guy and the boss lady tripping out was slightly humourous.  This last episode was generally pretty awful too.  Horrible premise, I find myself caring even less for the actives now and am pretty much done with the show.  The whole memory glitch and emerging identities stuff are overused and the singleness of the theme is unforgivably dull.

[naum]

FOX to end Dollhouse's first season one episode short
http://www.avclub.com/articles/fox-to-end-dollhouses-first-season-one-episode-sho,26433/

[schild]

Yep. Just read that.

This is either the end of terminator, or a new beginning.

[Numtini]

Apparently the deal is they made 13 episodes and then because of Fox wanting stuff rearranged, they chopped up the first one and spread bits of it out inside of other episodes to make things sort of make sense kind of in the new order. I've noticed it--parts of the sportsbike bondage guy have popped up in another episode very obviously meant to be before an earlier one. That left them short an episode and the 13th episode is the other bits from the opener plus some other stuff that they strung together to meet a contract for 13 episodes for the DVD. I'm guessing they hope by not showing it the Whedonistas will buy it and earn back some of the money it undoubtedly lost.

Either way, it sure smells like CANCEL to me and I can't imagine anyone is going to be tearfully running around in redcoats or whatever it was this time.

[UnSub]

Yellowcoats.

The cancellation will be used as further evidence that Fox just doesn't get Joss Whedon.

[Tarami]

Browncoats. Like the rebels wore in Firefly.

And I'm not weeping for Dollhouse.

[UnSub]

*UnSub has lost 5 nerd points.*

[Numtini]

I knew it was brown, it's just always reminded me of that old sitcom in the holiday camp.

Is there some reason this guy doesn't just pitch something at scifi? I can't imagine that something like Firefly wouldn't be long term hit there.

[Nevermore]

I knew it was brown, it's just always reminded me of that old sitcom in the holiday camp.

Is there some reason this guy doesn't just pitch something at scifi syfy? I can't imagine that something like Firefly wouldn't be long term hit there.

[apocrypha]

Is there some reason this guy doesn't just pitch something at scifi? I can't imagine that something like Firefly wouldn't be long term hit there.

Yeah.... it's shit, it'd fit right in there 

I weakened and downloaded them all the other week. This series is shit. I really didn't want that to be the case, but it is.

[Numtini]

Yeah.... it's shit, it'd fit right in there

Seriously, we watch Sanctuary. And it's.... shit. It was a webseries or something. It's bad acting and bad CGI and unlike Dante's Cove, we don't even get a Sausagefest to make up for it. But who cares, it sits on our DVR, it's vaguely interesting if we've had a few drinks, and may be we watch it and maybe we don't.

But just IMHO, Whedon can do better than Dollhouse and whatever he concocted with the usual Vancouver folks for scifi would far outlast anything on Faux Network.

[schild]

Faux Network

Saying things like that doesn't help make a point. But what I do know, I like Micro$oft.

[caladein]

Obviously there's something wrong with me in that I've really really liked the last four episodes.

I really hope that Fox avoids mangling and/or killing a Season 2.

[Ironwood]

*UnSub has lost 5 nerd points.*

You were thinking of the protest when Hi-De-Hi was cancelled.

[HaemishM]

I can only assume Whedon doesn't go to the Syphilis Channel because they make craploads of REALLY SHITTY CHEAP SHOWS. They can't afford him and his ego. After Firefly got assfucked, he swore he'd never work with Fox again. OH LOOK, MONEYZZZZ!

[palmer_eldritch]

This weeks' episode was great. The characters seem more likeable now, the story is going somewhere and it turns out to be an ensemble show rather than all based around echo, which is good necause it means the other characters get stories of their own.

[Tannhauser]

My understanding, if correct, is that he was contractually obligated to do another Fox show.  Hence Whorehouse.  I mean Dollhouse.

[Merusk]

My understanding, if correct, is that he was contractually obligated to do another Fox show.  Hence Whorehouse.  I mean Dollhouse.

Makes sense, come up with a shitty concept execute it poorly and hope it gets cancelled so you've fulfilled your contract and are now freeeee.

[Prospero]

Obviously there's something wrong with me in that I've really really liked the last four episodes.

I really hope that Fox avoids mangling and/or killing a Season 2.

You're not alone. I feel like I'm supposed to hate it, but I don't. I guess I just suck at TV.

[Wasted]

Apparently the deal is they made 13 episodes and then because of Fox wanting stuff rearranged, they chopped up the first one and spread bits of it out inside of other episodes to make things sort of make sense kind of in the new order. I've noticed it--parts of the sportsbike bondage guy have popped up in another episode very obviously meant to be before an earlier one. That left them short an episode and the 13th episode is the other bits from the opener plus some other stuff that they strung together to meet a contract for 13 episodes for the DVD. I'm guessing they hope by not showing it the Whedonistas will buy it and earn back some of the money it undoubtedly lost.

Either way, it sure smells like CANCEL to me and I can't imagine anyone is going to be tearfully running around in redcoats or whatever it was this time.

from http://scifiwire.com/2009/04/joss-whedon-speculates-on.php

Whedon also elaborated on the show's storied 13th episode, "Epitaph One," a post-apocalyptic story featuring his Dr. Horrible star Felicia Day, which is not part of the series that will air on Fox.

"The decision had to do with the studio saying, 'We need another episode for our package, and we can't afford one,'" Whedon said. "'Can you do a clip show? Can we show the unaired pilot?' I'm like, 'No, you can't. It wouldn't make any sense. Besides, we cannibalized it for parts. Most of it's in other episodes.' And they were like, 'Well, we really have to have 13 for foreign.' And I said, 'I'll tell you what. I'll shoot a post-apocalyptic thriller that's all on our sets in six days with a cast of four other people, then we'll pepper it with different bits from our regular cast, and we can do it all during the schedule. It'll cost you half. I can do this.' And I was so in love with the idea that I just came up with off the top of my head, and that's what it turned into. It's one of the best episodes we've ever made."

 

[Numtini]

We caught up last night. The series is becoming more and more enjoyable as I watch it, but in terms of it holding together I'm already getting the "I am being played" feeling that the x-files gave me that there's this huge complex background that has no real basis and will never be solved. I'd enjoy it a lot more if I knew it had a sunset date.

[apocrypha]

OK, I've started to get this.

With Angel & Buffy Whedon took a long time to build up the story and characters. Like, several series. In Firefly I suspect he didn't feel he had that luxury of time, plunged right in and made a much better product as a result. For some reason he's gone back to the slowly slowly method with Dollhouse, and I think it's a mistake. It *could* become something good if it got 5 series, but that ain't gonna happen and we're going to be left with something unfinished.

Still, it is improving, I quite liked episode 9.

[Tarami]

Because Whedon writes series just like you improvise GMing in RPGs. You dissect the players' wishes and go the direction they seem to want the game to go, with some interesting twists thrown in. It's a very, very functional method to provide someone an never-ending story that appeals to them. Give them what they want, but you need time to be able to tell what it is they want without asking.

[stray]

Huh. So the show got good after all....

[patience]

OK, I've started to get this.

With Angel & Buffy Whedon took a long time to build up the story and characters. Like, several series. In Firefly I suspect he didn't feel he had that luxury of time, plunged right in and made a much better product as a result. For some reason he's gone back to the slowly slowly method with Dollhouse, and I think it's a mistake. It *could* become something good if it got 5 series, but that ain't gonna happen and we're going to be left with something unfinished.

Still, it is improving, I quite liked episode 9.

Yes and no.

This is a show that will definitely take a lot longer to develop every character. But you are mistaken to say Buffy and Angel were any slower than Firefly.

The pacing of these shows are all the same but the tone of each show is different. I'm not going to break down the first three but instead point out the one common element that Dollhouse lacks. The first three shows gave us characters clearly morally good and the Whedon twist that perverted what we usually expected out of similar shows made them novel, fresh and entertaining from the start.

In Dollhouse the overwhelming majority of characters are morally bad and the show is hinting at the people we could root for (the dolls) are just as capable of rubbing us the wrong way antithetical to our values once we learn what got them into them involved in the Dollhouse to begin with. Whedon's twist on this show is going in directions that are less acceptable to viewers for some reason I haven't fully understood yet. Based on the sample of this forum that reason is that good (or whatever represents it) isn't winning.

It's as if Whedon made tabletop games and first gave us warhammer, warhammer 40k and battletech and his Dollhouse was Paranoia

Still entertaining in it's own right but requires a greater shift in our mindset to enjoy a very different way of playing tabletops.

[schild]

Since I had nothing else to do, I watched the first 10 episodes.

It didn't get "better" at episode 6 or 7. It just wasn't as bad as the first handful of episodes. There's no real "degree" of quality once you get into the shit zone, which unfortunately was where this show started.

The post above this one is interesting because it analyzes the characters. Really, the only likable and remotely decent actor is Echo's handler/security chief. The rest of the characters are flavors of lame. The FBI agent could not have been cast more poorly. He is absolutely unbearable.

Really, this is trash. Joss needs to just go away. I'll finish season 1 just to see if he can SOMEHOW pull it together, but between this, Buffy, and Angel, I'm fairly certain Firefly was either ghostwritten or completely adlibbed, because his writing is on average, intolerable.

Also, I don't know who's uglier. The asian on this show or Sandra Oh or whatever from Gray's Anatomy.

[Tarami]

Well, the morals have nothing to do with the quality or even appeal of the characters anyhow. Amoral characters are abundant in literature and many of them are very popular.

[Wasted]

Well, the morals have nothing to do with the quality or even appeal of the characters anyhow. Amoral characters are abundant in literature and many of them are very popular.

There are barely any characters in Dollhouse.  Topher can be a little witty sometimes but the rest are all too cold and businesslike to have anything resembling a character, these are people going through the motions and the reveals are too slow coming because its the only hook they have to possibly get people watching week after week.

[Bunk]

Also, I don't know who's uglier. The asian on this show or Sandra Oh or whatever from Gray's Anatomy.

 

[Tarami]

I will politely disagree on that. I thought she was the only good thing about the show. I can't stand Dushku as an actress nor as eyecandy, she looks like an old woman. Still, nobody's looks have ever made me watch a movie or show not to my tastes.

Edit;
My grammar is hammered. As always.

[Hindenburg]

both are pretty damn ugly.

[patience]

But it's obvious Sandra is uglier, there shouldn't be any confusion.

[schild]

But it's obvious Sandra is uglier, there shouldn't be any confusion.

The point was that neither of them should be on TV. It doesn't actually matter which one of them would be uglier if you saw them walking on the street or something.

[Numtini]

I enjoyed the last episode concepts a lot, but as with a lot of this, it would be better done as a movie.

[stray]

Sandra Oh has got the coolness. I wouldn't want to see her go away, even if she isn't eye candy. Also, someone give Margaret Cho a job.