Patches 1.1a-d Have Arrived

[Mrbloodworth]

The boards are speaking loudly this morning across the interwebs... same shit. Forts crashing, end game is useless, lagbeasts galore, etc...

NO way!

[Tarami]

I think its great for the Genre.  It's a big guide to who not to hire and what not the fuck to do.

This. Maybe, in some parallell universe, where unicorns wear massive strap-on dongs and invite eldery women into the back of their Volkswagen vans for a last good time, a game developer has learned that even MMOs need to be good games.

[Arthur_Parker]

EU Character Transfers Phase II

Phase II
Axe Bite Pass, Karak Orrud and Karak Dron can transfer to Karak Hirn or Karak Azgal

I think that bring the total dead servers to 52.

[Sophismata]

I think its great for the Genre.  It's a big guide to who not to hire and what not the fuck to do.

This. Maybe, in some parallell universe, where unicorns wear massive strap-on dongs and invite eldery women into the back of their Volkswagen vans for a last good time, a game developer has learned that even MMOs need to be good games.

MMO's don't need to be good games - people need to be 'better' players.

[UnSub]

To be fair, there are MMOs that are good games. Not games that will satisfy your needs for all eternity, but good and fun to play for a few months and come back to check the updates.

WAR isn't one of those MMOs.

[Kail]

To be fair, there are MMOs that are good games. Not games that will satisfy your needs for all eternity, but good and fun to play for a few months and come back to check the updates.

WAR isn't one of those MMOs.

Really?  I would have said it was (excluding maybe the first sentence).  I found it fun for a month or so, playing through the first two tiers.  That's when the game was most fun for me.  It's not something I'd like to devote my life to, even if they ever get the endgame working, but it's fun to do scenarios and muck around with alts.  If they ever lowered the experience curve, I'd be back for a month or two, no question.

[ghost]

To be fair, there are MMOs that are good games. Not games that will satisfy your needs for all eternity, but good and fun to play for a few months and come back to check the updates.

WAR isn't one of those MMOs.

Really?  I would have said it was (excluding maybe the first sentence).  I found it fun for a month or so, playing through the first two tiers.  That's when the game was most fun for me.  It's not something I'd like to devote my life to, even if they ever get the endgame working, but it's fun to do scenarios and muck around with alts.  If they ever lowered the experience curve, I'd be back for a month or two, no question.

WAR is putrid.

[ashrik]

Yack, I was on a good little spree back there. The iron hammer that is the 30-40 grind finally shellacked me at rank 36. It saps my will to play every second that I'm logged into the game. Every moment, whether in a PQ or scenario or keep or Bastion Stair is consumed with the thought of how my actions relate to that damned bar.

Towards thee I level, thou all-destroying but unconquering game; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

[Riggswolfe]

Towards thee I level, thou all-destroying but unconquering game; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

*face spasming* MAAAAAARRRRRRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (yeah, I know you were playing off of the original Klingon and not the movie I'm going with here...)

[Draegan]

Tier 3 killed this game for me.  I enjoyed the first two tiers.  Actually I enjoyed the game up until rank 18.

[tazelbain]

Yack, I was on a good little spree back there. The iron hammer that is the 30-40 grind finally shellacked me at rank 36. It saps my will to play every second that I'm logged into the game. Every moment, whether in a PQ or scenario or keep or Bastion Stair is consumed with the thought of how my actions relate to that damned bar.

Towards thee I level, thou all-destroying but unconquering game; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

WAR xp grind is like dieting by starving yourself.  The excruciating slow xp bar makes you focus on xp more not less

Sorry, Ashrik.  I didn't actually edit anything in your post.

[Bismallah]

The XP grind got to me, but it wasn't that bad. I mean I grinded a Shadow Priest while deployed for 8-10 hours a day for nearly 3-4 weeks straight (barely any quests, straight power grind, stupid of me but I was bored). I also used to ice mine 8-10 hours on the weekend with 3 Macks, Hauler, and support (till the g/f threw in the towel on that one). I am used to sitting there and realizing I am about to sit and stare at a screen for hours on end. I guess I am a patient person. What got to me was the fact that the end game was completely broken and yet people still ran around all happy and cheery like Mythic pissing on their face was a nice warm rain, while taking their cash and laughing.

Now I do marathon games of Sins of a Solar Empire, little WoW now and again, and keep those Eve skills trained.

[Fraeg]

I also used to ice mine 8-10 hours on the weekend with 3 Macks, Hauler, and support (till the g/f threw in the towel on that one).

I am trying and failing to understand what you are talking about here.  Not being snarky, genuinely interested in what you are talking about.  Ice mining?  Macks? like Mack trucks?

[Special J]

I also used to ice mine 8-10 hours on the weekend with 3 Macks, Hauler, and support (till the g/f threw in the towel on that one).

I am trying and failing to understand what you are talking about here.  Not being snarky, genuinely interested in what you are talking about.  Ice mining?  Macks? like Mack trucks?

EVE Online.  A Mack is short for a ship class called Mackinaw.

I convinced my friends that the server we were on is a big pile of crap, moved to a more populated one and defected to Order.  So I get to do the first two tiers again.  My account is still sitting on cancelled; we'll see if I can be convinced to renew or if Tier III will crush my soul.  I barely spent time in Tier III last go around.

[Bismallah]

Yeah sorry about that Fraeg. A Mackinaw is next to the top of the line mining ship built specifically for Ice mining. Each cycle, even with a Rorqual for mining bonuses, was still around 220 seconds (Ice Harvesting 5, impants, etc... my ice miners were decked out). So not only did I sit and do nothing, I sat and waited every cycle to pull the ice out of my cargo and into containers.

Point being, I can grind when/if I need to and quite frankly nothing in WAR made me want/need to. Ever.

[UnSub]

To be fair, there are MMOs that are good games. Not games that will satisfy your needs for all eternity, but good and fun to play for a few months and come back to check the updates.

WAR isn't one of those MMOs.

Really?  I would have said it was (excluding maybe the first sentence).  I found it fun for a month or so, playing through the first two tiers.  That's when the game was most fun for me.  It's not something I'd like to devote my life to, even if they ever get the endgame working, but it's fun to do scenarios and muck around with alts.  If they ever lowered the experience curve, I'd be back for a month or two, no question.

I was up into Tier 2 by the end of the first month. Scenarios were fun most of the time, except for the favouritism of certain maps.

However, PvE was awful thanks to weak mob AI (which had devolved into "run straight at the player... well, as straight as the Mythic pathfinding will allow" 90% of the time), travel time wasn't enjoyable at all, quests were often completely uninteresting and PQs were dead. ORvR regions were also dead. WAR also felt empty as a world.

So, WAR wasn't worth playing past the first 30 days. IMO. I might come back and check the updates, but there are a large number of titles I have a lot more interest in than WAR.

[Special J]

Since moving to a busier server I've found some action in the Tier 1 PQs; not a lot, but way better than the wastelands of the Open servers and their retarded ruleset.  RvR had stuff going on too.  If you're still bothering to play then seek out the most populated server.

[Beltaine]

Tier 3 killed this game for me.  I enjoyed the first two tiers.  Actually I enjoyed the game up until rank 18.

This.

I leveled 3 Order characters to 20 on an Order underpop server. I just couldn't make myself trudge any further into T3.

PQ's were ghost towns.

Scenarios were either totally wtfpwn Destro or get totally wtfpwned by Destro.

Order complained that Destro were:
1. People with no life living in parents' basements.
2. More organized than Order.
3. To chickenshit to defend keeps.

So I decided to roll Destro on a server with an overpop of Destro.

PQ's were ghost towns.

Scenarios were either totally wtfpwn Order or get totally wtfpwned by Order.

Destro complained that Order were:
1. People with no life living in parents' basements.
2. More organized than Destro.
3. To chickenshit to defend keeps.

 

[Threash]

Scenarios were either totally wtfpwn Destro or get totally wtfpwned by Destro.

Ive noticing this more and more.  There are NO close games, its either 500-10 or 10-500 in tier 4, usually depending on which side has the most 40s or a premade.  I know the low pop is already spread out way too much but lvl 40s really should have their own tier at least for scenarios.

[GoodIdea]

The latest patch 1.1d is pretty good. I had many of the same complaints most of you had but now:

- Fortress sieges no longer crash. There is still the problem of packing 8 warbands into one ramp, but that's another story. Order DID take a fort (at prime time) so it can be done.
- Influence rewards make everyone want to do open rvr and at least on Azazel, there is nightly action on ALL tiers (including tiers 1-2).
- Because open rvr is being rewarded, no one is doing PVE. Which is good because I agree, the PVE is not that good.
- Bright wizards and sorcs nerfed heavily, witch elves slightly. Other classes buffed (Magus and Engineer especially).
- Most gameplay issues have been fixed.
- Zone control has been changed so it's easier to do and it makes more sense.


I guess the bottom line is all of the open rvr has made the game wickedly fun, at least for me. Finally the pvp game that I expected to buy is being delivered, at least on Azazel. 1v1 battles, 6v6 battles, 50-100 vs 50-100 person battles. Action everywhere. So WAR is delivering imo, at least on my server.

[Vinadil]

Yep, I think that each server has its own experience, I just wonder how many people they will need to continue to support the game at a high level.  Ostermark sounds about the same as your server currently, as we will have RVR on a nightly basis that goes from 24 v 24 to 100 v 100.

[GoodIdea]

Personally I wouldn't want to play on anything other than a high population server. My server always has around 6-24 guys doing open rvr on either side at all hours of the day (in tiers 3-4). And on prime hours at least a WB (usually in T 1-2 as well). Which means there is always something to do. I wouldn't want to play with anything less. Mythic should probably consolidate more servers imo.

[ashrik]

Yeah, things have been getting better. Piece by piece.

It's not enough to get anyone who doesn't like the game to give it another go (unless just the crashes really put you off), but it is nice for those still subbed. And yes, I am still subscribed. It's some kind of a bullshit protest against all of my former <Bros and Pals> guildmates who went back to Warcraft.

I've been to Bastion Stair again, and the bosses there show that Mythic can on occasion make content that isn't horrible. They at least do something outside the realm of autoattack/aoe damage, is all I'm saying.

Provided I can keep my air of bullshit superiority over my friends, I'll likely play this for a while more. Rank 37 still. Bastards.

[Bismallah]

Yep, I think that each server has its own experience, I just wonder how many people they will need to continue to support the game at a high level.  Ostermark sounds about the same as your server currently, as we will have RVR on a nightly basis that goes from 24 v 24 to 100 v 100.

Unfortunately Vin, those numbers will probably never see the City siege end game unless you all set your alarms early. They will continue to fix things slowly but surely, my main sticking point is that there are so many other great products out there currently and most of the WAR servers currently cannot support that end game.

Ah well.

[ashrik]

I'm not convinced that this will always be the case. I got to see my first fort siege the other day and with hundreds of people around, I was able to stay and close to 20 fps. That's nothing special, I know- but a few weeks ago I'd dip down to single digits if more than 20 people were on screen at once.

I feel like I've entered the domain of the Mythic apologists. Maybe I'm making excuses to justify the bill.

[Nebu]

If you're getting $15 worth of fun every month, then there's nothing to apologize for.  I stopped having fun, so I left.

[eldaec]

Lots of people seem to be overcomplicating why this game sucks.

It sucks because even the theory depends on all tiers being highly populated throughout the life of the game, but there was no reason to expect this to ever happen.

[ghost]

Lots of people seem to be overcomplicating why this game sucks.

It sucks because even the theory depends on all tiers being highly populated throughout the life of the game, but there was no reason to expect this to ever happen.

Well, that's not the only reason it sucks, but it certainly it certainly may be the most damning feature.  It does put a damper on getting any new customers once everyone is at L40 there will be no way to level (not even scenarios) except for PVE stuff.  That doesn't even take into account the zone locking mechanics, which I believe need lower zones to be locked too. 

[Feverdream]

I am still subscribed as well, for the sake of a couple of guildies who don't feel there are better options out there.  And yes, the recent rounds of patches have brought obvious improvements.  But I reactivated my WoW account yesterday...something I never thought I'd do.   I am also visiting the AoC boards again to see if there are any possibilities there.  Yes, I'm desperate.

Frankly, I got more enjoyment from going through the Death Knight starter zone quests and just running all over Azeroth leveling mining (including some fun world PvP encounters) than I've had in WAR for awhile.

The killer in WAR for me is the endgame.  I can put up with a lot for an endgame that's worth waiting for.  For a good PvP endgame, I'll put up with leveling grinds, gear grinds, and bad PvE (though maybe that's because I don't care much for PvE in general, so bad or good, it doesn't engage me much).

But WAR's endgame appears to be a combination of PvE gear grind, PvE and scenario grinds to unlock zones, and instanced PvE encounters for the "crown jewel" of their endgame...defeating a King in a city attack.  I can't see anything there for my particular flavor of gaming preference.  I don't have many alternatives at the moment, though, so will bounce back and forth between WAR and WoW and hope that Blizzard and Mythic can keep poaching ideas from one another until one of them gets PvP right.

[GoodIdea]

Lots of people seem to be overcomplicating why this game sucks.

It sucks because even the theory depends on all tiers being highly populated throughout the life of the game, but there was no reason to expect this to ever happen.

One thing that keeps tiers 1-3 alive is the fact that it greatly helps zone control to have alts in these tiers, so that we can take zone control in tier 4. At first I thought this would be a pain, but I'm actually really liking going back and creating alts and fighting in T1-2.

Also, with the introduction of the Blackguard and Knight, T1-2 have been flooded in the past few weeks. It's temporary though but it was nice to see.

And believe it or not, new people are playing the game.

So for now all tiers are doing alright.

[chargerrich]

It really is funny how some fanbois will attack those of us that really hit the T3-4 wall. They wear the "McQuaid Grind Badge" with honor. However, in reality, from a business standpoint, it was a stupid design choice by Mythic.

Oh I get the idea: longer grind = reach cap slower = less content burned = longer sub = more revenue = more time and resources to fix broken game

However, here is the problem and what should have been the solution:

People like me did not stay. People like me, despite buying several collectors editions and moving a wow guild over, will NEVER come back. A not insignificant percentage of that revenue is lost forever.

The game should have made the 1-40 process very easy. And by easy, I mean something on the order of 50-80 hours played MAX. The entry point here should have been simple, get everyone (and your alts) to the START of what SHOULD be the core of the game.

Then and only then, you force players, who are by now happy and invested in their level 40s to start the arduous journey to rank 80. Hell for my part, I would have been perfectly fine and in support of the longest rank 80 grind possible. 5,000 hours? no problem. Rank 80 should be EPIC and hard to achieve, but EVERYONE, even the most casual player should have had easy access to 40. This alone would have made ORvR at Tier 4 much better. Would it hurt T1-3? Who cares? The game should have supported T1-3 as a PvE game with a PvP primer. Everything should have been geared to get you ready, happy, invested and addicted at level 40 so you can now start the meat of the game.

How bleeping hard is that concept? How can anyone argue that this would not be better than what exists now?

This would allow players, all players, to really taste the "dings" and feel like they are growing powerful. This would have allowed every subscriber to have two, three or even more level 40's. This in turn would certainly have had a positive effect on subscriber retention as players would be attached and feel accomplished. At the same time, the hard core, zerolifers would have the ability to separate and distinquish themselves and have something to show for their 12 hour days, failed grades, broken marriages and lost employment ( ).

Why Mythic went off this path (or was never on it) is mind numbing.

[Mrbloodworth]

The game should have made the 1-40 process very easy. And by easy, I mean something on the order of 50-80 hours played MAX. The entry point here should have been simple, get everyone (and your alts) to the START of what SHOULD be the core of the game.

Then what? 

[HaemishM]

PVP or RVR as the case may be. If t1-t3 is shortened so much, take the PVP lakes from those areas out and use them as t4 areas.

[Mrbloodworth]

PVP or RVR as the case may be. If t1-t3 is shortened so much, take the PVP lakes from those areas out and use them as t4 areas.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just remove those levels? and if so, doesn't that make 40 the new 1, and put it all right back to square one.

Unless you guys are saying, 1-40 should be a tutorial, but then...whats left? You have no ability's to learn at that pint, so its all about gear and Renown. I see the same issues as Planetside cropping up. IE, nothing but taking bases and farming XP for more stuff (what it devolved to due to stagnant development, among other things).

I think this is a case again, of "Why does an MMO have an endgame at all", i have always felt "endgame" was a flaw in game design, a dam if you will until more development can happen. Really only a symptom of level based games however.

Remove tiers and levels altogether, add a use based system, and create a system of full territory control's, and resource hording.


/random babbling

[Nebu]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just remove those levels? and if so, doesn't that make 40 the new 1, and put it all right back to square one.

I agree.  Remove the pve levels and just have reknown be the only leveling in the game.  Lots of content for everyone that way. 

Truth: NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.