The New out door PVP zones in WOTLK?

[rattran]

Wintergrasp is fun, even for a constantly losing side. 200% bonus to toughness, health, and damage is the best I've had there, even outnumbered (a whole horde) to 3. 3 minutes to lose, we killed 2 guys, and got like 1500 honor. But an intense, fun 3 minutes.
As for mining, the ore spawns are meh, Sholazar is much better for both Saronite and Titanium. Faster spawn, more nodes, and epic flyer.  The greater elementals are okay, and drop 0-3 crystallized each, with the average being about 1.5 or so. Regular eles are the same as everywhere, so not much more efficient than non-wintergrasp farming.

So a good zone for the fights, but not much happening in the downtime.

As for the 19k mount, money is flowing in insanely for me. Miner/bs, selling titansteel stuff nets me ~4k every few days, plus selling eternals and the occasional 100gold tip for slapping together someone's components. I was chatting with a skinner/leatherworker who had about the same rate going, just from 425+ leather/mail outfits.

[kaid]

HAHA I one time was running around in wintergrasp in the wee hours of the night and managed to have a 19 stack of the buff for being on the weaker side. I was running around with 104k hp and hitting for double damage. I was like a mini heroic boss running around we lost but I had fun.

[rattran]

Yeah, I got a 500% tenacity bonus last night. One shotting guys was amusing, though we still lost.

[kaid]

Ya if you are stacking that much tenacity you simply cannot be in enough places at once to win but damn its funny as a prot warrior going and shield slamming 3 catapults to death and their drivers before I got taken out. You may not win but its pretty hilarious feeling like godzilla stomping through others in pvp.

[Hawkbit]

I play a tank DK for PvE, so I've got some serious defense/exp/hit/stam on my tank set.  I'll often drop into frost presence if I know I can't win a fight, blow my cooldowns and keep people busy for as long as I can.  The other night I had a DK, mage and rogue on me, managed to kill the DK and mage before the rogue dropped me, but I had him at 10% health left.  I can only assume they were terrible, because I am.  Wintergrasp was fun. 

[kaid]

Rogues are not that great vs plate armor wearers going into their defensive mode due to their many smaller attacks which our armor mitigates down to not much. Also with IBF if you get it off before the rogue starts in on you negates their stunlock potential so now they are bringing a knife to a two handed sword fight and often die fast because of it.

I love when rogues jump my prot warrior. I pop shield block and watch them explode on my damage shield.

[Oban]

I play a tank DK for PvE, so I've got some serious defense/exp/hit/stam on my tank set.  I'll often drop into frost presence if I know I can't win a fight, blow my cooldowns and keep people busy for as long as I can.  The other night I had a DK, mage and rogue on me, managed to kill the DK and mage before the rogue dropped me, but I had him at 10% health left.  I can only assume they were terrible, because I am.  Wintergrasp was fun. 

Tenacity buff.

[Kail]

A bit off topic, but does anyone know what, if anything, Alterac Valley Marks are used for at 80 now?  Don't need them for armor anymore, the only weapons available are for level 60, the potions are still level 70, and even the "exchange tokens for honor" quest doesn't need them now (uses Strand Marks instead).  I have an entire mailbox full of "Oops, tried to give you these tokens, but you were full, so we're mailing them to you one at a time."  I can't even figure out how to drop the stupid things since they're "Currency" now and not in the inventory.  I started buying potions and junking them (since vendors won't touch them), but there's got to be something to do with them, right?

[rattran]

They can be used with the other marks for mounts, other than that I dunno. Wintergrasp Marks seem to have no current use.

[Merusk]

The lack of use for AV marks is probably to offset the fact that a pair of matches lasts as long as any other single bg.  "Oh, hell, we can't make them useful for anything, people will amass the total in a few days time.  Let's just make them useless and not remove them from the game!"

The pvp currency system has always been the weakest link in the game.

[kildorn]

They can be used with the other marks for mounts, other than that I dunno. Wintergrasp Marks seem to have no current use.

WG marks buy epix next patch. Helm/Boots and mirrors of the 10 man/heroic badge trinkets with resil and the same proc (caster one is still listed as crit, so it's a complete mirror, may go live like that)

[Der Helm]

If I don't have decent PvP Armor yet (still 70  ), are the level 80 Armor pieces you can get for AV marks  worth the effort ?

Or are there easier ways to get PvP gear once I am sitting at level 80 ?

[Kail]

If I don't have decent PvP Armor yet (still 70  ), are the level 80 Armor pieces you can get for AV marks  worth the effort ?

Or are there easier ways to get PvP gear once I am sitting at level 80 ?

*Edit: Misread the question*

I'm not sure which 80 pieces you're talking about; all the ones I'm seeing are only worth honor points.  And while they're fairly nice, you're still going to be meat for a raider or anyone with an arena team.  If you're doing PvP anyway, might as well spend the honor on them (they're better than nothing) but they do still take a significant amount of grinding to earn.

[Der Helm]

I'm not sure which 80 pieces you're talking about; all the ones I'm seeing are only worth honor points.  And while they're fairly nice, you're still going to be meat for a raider or anyone with an arena team.  If you're doing PvP anyway, might as well spend the honor on them (they're better than nothing) but they do still take a significant amount of grinding to earn.

Duh. You are right. Just hono(u?)r points. I was browsing all the vendors in the hall of legends and got confused. 

So. Is that the easiest way to get decent gear ? Should I get into raiding ?

Getting in an arena team should be easy once I am at level 80. Death Knights are in short supply. 

[kaid]

I believe in the 3.0.8 patch they are making marks something that can be turned in for more bonus honor at least the wintergrasp ones are. At this point it looks like other than for mounts and lower level gear you should not need much if any badges of victory and I for one am glad because honor is pretty easy to get forcing myself to play WSG is like sawing through my arm with dental floss.

[kildorn]

one eye/wsg/strand/AB mark = 930 honor

Basically to make you run all of them a little bit.

WG marks will be usable for epix and 2k honor tokens (buyable now with shards, soon with both)

AV marks are useless and just spam your mailbox.

[Nebu]

Yeah, I got a 500% tenacity bonus last night. One shotting guys was amusing, though we still lost.

I'm certain it was only amusing for you.  Being one-shot can't be fun for the opponent.  Seems like silly implementation. 

[Paelos]

Yeah, I got a 500% tenacity bonus last night. One shotting guys was amusing, though we still lost.

I'm certain it was only amusing for you.  Being one-shot can't be fun for the opponent.  Seems like silly implementation. 

Having seen the other side of that, I can say it's pretty stupid. You have to have about 8 people on one guy, and then he gets heals. If the buff is high enough, it makes no sense to fight. You just try to avoid them and crash the towers. Also, there should be a way for defense to win by crashing all of the towers the other team has in the south. It's stupid that you have to wait the full 40m or whatever it is, when the other team has essentially given up.

[kildorn]

Yeah, I got a 500% tenacity bonus last night. One shotting guys was amusing, though we still lost.

I'm certain it was only amusing for you.  Being one-shot can't be fun for the opponent.  Seems like silly implementation. 

Having seen the other side of that, I can say it's pretty stupid. You have to have about 8 people on one guy, and then he gets heals. If the buff is high enough, it makes no sense to fight. You just try to avoid them and crash the towers. Also, there should be a way for defense to win by crashing all of the towers the other team has in the south. It's stupid that you have to wait the full 40m or whatever it is, when the other team has essentially given up.

Would be Waaaaaay too easy for defense to win like that. We use a single cat to pop towers for honor, forcing the attackers to defend something at the opposite side of the field from the actual objective would only make sense if there wasn't a time limit.

[Paelos]

That's all fine and good, but if you're beating the shit out of someone, and you literally own everything with all their towers destroyed, a 10m timer should kick in or something. It's silly to have people dicking around for the extra 30m when the fight is over. Like a mercy rule.

[Zetor]

Tenacity might be good for the epeen [and 'lulz 50000 pyroblast crit moments], but the badly outnumbered side will still lose, simply because the other side will have more people in vehicles / turrets. Even if you're superman with 500 stacks of tenacity, you can't hold the fort against 16 siege machines attacking the keep from all three directions at once.


-- Z.

[Gobbeldygook]

Tenacity might be good for the epeen [and 'lulz 50000 pyroblast crit moments], but the badly outnumbered side will still lose, simply because the other side will have more people in vehicles / turrets. Even if you're superman with 500 stacks of tenacity, you can't hold the fort against 16 siege machines attacking the keep from all three directions at once.

Tenacity stacks don't let you win, but they do give you a reason to bother showing up and fighting.  You can just AOE grind the other side for honor; with a full stack of tenacity, I believe you get 92 honor/kill.

[Koyasha]

Tenacity might be good for the epeen [and 'lulz 50000 pyroblast crit moments], but the badly outnumbered side will still lose, simply because the other side will have more people in vehicles / turrets. Even if you're superman with 500 stacks of tenacity, you can't hold the fort against 16 siege machines attacking the keep from all three directions at once.


-- Z.

Tenacity should perhaps also increase movement speed, although I hesitate to suggest anything that mace it more powerful.  That would go a long way toward actually giving the outnumbered side a chance, if they could move from one section of the map to another much more rapidly.  It's not a matter of damage done, often, it's just being logistically outflanked.  If I could run at 300% movement speed with Tenacity up (when out of combat), it'd mean I could get from one side to the other of the keep quickly enough to make a difference at the other side.

[Azazel]

I'm pretty unimpressed with WG overall, actually. It seems random and zerglike. Moreso than normal at least. I did have a fun long fight while defending this morning at least. When there's not a scheduled battle there though, there's no point being there at all.

[w00key]

Did anyone successfully defended wg yet? Here, the attacking side *always* win. If they have a coordinated group, they do it in 10-15 min, but even if they don't they always break the door and grab the fortress 5-10 minutes before the end of the match... Grr.

[Fordel]

When there's not a scheduled battle there though, there's no point being there at all.

Except for the abnormally high concentration of high level ore, herbs and eternal mobs?

I've gathered 10 Titan Steel Bars worth of materials just from mining in a total of 3 hours (not all at once mind you).




-fake edit-

w00key, I've been in several successful defenses in "real" games (where both sides show up and it isn't like... 5 am), and I have been on the wrong end of a successful defense as well. You just have to be aggressive in your defending. Sitting back in the keep will just ensure you lose slower.

[w00key]

Hmm, true. I guess I'll try more catapult zergs next time, but that will have to wait until tomorrow, defending at 2 am and bed afterwards.

We tried to take out the East & West workshops a few times, but the resistance is pretty large every time and most of the stupid alliance players don't have a clue what to do and just sit in the fort. Yay Neptulon!

[Hawkbit]

Did anyone successfully defended wg yet? Here, the attacking side *always* win. If they have a coordinated group, they do it in 10-15 min, but even if they don't they always break the door and grab the fortress 5-10 minutes before the end of the match... Grr.

That's part of some of the changes that will be coming in the patch.  Fort walls and turrets are getting buffed, but the orb in the room is insta-click now.  If the attackers can get the keep door down, they basically have won.  It's good changes... the fun fight is outside of the orb room. 

[Fordel]

The Hp Increases aren't a buff, they are in place to compensate for the fact all debuffs (outside of CC) will work on siege next patch. Currently only Direct Damage and select DoTs from certain specs work on siege, so a lot of classes damage potential is neutered against siege engines.

[Zetor]

I've taken part in a few successful wintergrasp defenses... the secret, as said earlier, is to be aggressive. If everyone sits back at the base hogging turrets, you will lose.

Things that work well when defending:
- Controlling the contestable [east/west] workshops is absolutely vital. If you can control both (unlikely unless you're in an organized group) you've all but won. If you can control one and harass/destroy the other, it's almost as good.
- Get tons of catapults [obviously] to burn down the siege engines + infantry, but also a demolisher or two to ninja their southern workshops. Siege engines are a no-no when on defense.
- At the start of the game, have people near the NPC spawns at your 'home' workshop [west for horde, east for alliance] to kill NPCs, get rank immediately and hop into a catapult.
- If the clock is down to 5min and they haven't broken into the central courtyard yet, you're probably good to go; even if they get into the keep, they won't be able to click the orb in the ensuing AOEfest (this'll change next patch)
- You need people manning turrets along the perimeter, but don't need to overdo it -- the attackers will likely swarm from two directions, and very rarely mount a 3-pronged attack.
- If you have tenacity, you will probably lose [on D or O] :p


-- Z.

[Fordel]

One key thing to remember while being 'aggressive', is you must do so in numbers. You can be the most bad ass PvP'er the world has ever seen, and slaughter everyone before you at a workshop, but if you are solo, you will not be able to kill the enemy fast enough to actually capture said workshop.


It works the other way too, you can defend a workshop in numbers, even while being slaughtered, as long as there are more of you in the area then there are enemies attacking.

(Which is why the side with 20 tenacity has already lost, they can kill you by the dozens but they will never be able to actually capture the forward shops. Sucks for everyone all around, but for different reasons. Sucks for the Tenacity side in that they can't actually win and it sucks for the non-tenacity side because while the win is guaranteed, they are essentially ants to be squashed by the tenacity titans roaming the field.)

Thankfully on my server, tenacity seems to be limited to +/-3 or so during the 'normal' hours of the day/evening. All bets are off during the off hours though. 

[Azazel]

Did anyone successfully defended wg yet?

Yes. Several times.

When there's not a scheduled battle there though, there's no point being there at all.

Except for the abnormally high concentration of high level ore, herbs and eternal mobs?

The Eternal mobs are a bit of a toss. On my server anyway, it's just easier to do a couple of dailies in a group and buy the Primals (whatever they're now called). Faster and cheaper than farming yourself.

Haven't seen any herbs worth my interest at this point. I went in there a couple of times looking for them.

I'll take your word on the ore, but as I'm not a miner, I can't say I notice.

[kildorn]

There's a silly amount of ore in WG, and a really high rate of titanium spawns.

Due to the annoying nature of getting into WG, it's usually rather uncontested after about 15 minutes post-game.

[Fordel]

As long as we own WG and get the bonus eternal mobs, just farming them is faster then dailies + AH. Well, assuming you can kill the mobs in under 4 seconds on average at least.


Herb wise the zone has every Herb but Adders Tongue. I can do a few laps and my herb bag is full again.