LEFT 4 DEAD

[rk47]

hunter sucks, boomer can't do shit.
i still much prefer the smoker over other infecteds. Especially on a map with manhole, ladders or ledges. Just wait for the right time to pull the isolated ones and make sure your team isn't full of retards who don't even know how to use each mechanics.

But I'm quite annoyed with their pistol damage while incapacitated. It still hit pretty hard. I had one instance I pulled one guy while he was trying to revive his teammate, but i got killed by the dude on the floor. Assholes.

[DraconianOne]

I did alright as a boomer the other night on one of the No Mercy maps where I hid in a room and vommed on them whenever they went past. They got swarmed in a corridor and I just waited. When they cleared the horde, my vom timer had reset so I did it again. Managed a third time before some bright spark worked out that I must be in a room nearby.

Generally I am hating versus but would like to love it.  And I am currently the retard who doesn't know how to use each of the mechanics.  Is it even possible to play versus against the AI or in anyway as a single player - it's the only way I'm going to be able to work it all out.

[NiX]

You can, but the AI has pinpoint accuracy and knows you're there well before you are.

[Aez]

Hehe.  Noobs need some help.


Boomer : the most important infected. Your team mates will hate you if you die with out a successful vomit or explosion.  The easiest way is to spawn in front of them with a protected angle, a few second before they reach you (this will reduce their reaction time because they wont hear you for more than 2-3 sec).  Mastering the boomer explosion is harder, you can throw players over an edge with a god explosion (the explosion that kill you),

Hunter : Learn to leap form a building or a cliff.  You can also try to leap to the sky and drop on a survivor but it's harder than a simple leap. You can do up to 25 dmg.  Here's a video with some good example : http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhx8Yn0c83s 
Inside building, wait for a boomer vomit and simply claw the survivors.

Smoker : Wait for a boomer or catch the last one to leave an hard to reach area (the players will have trouble coming back to save him, sometime it's impossible and you will kill him no mather what the players do).

Tank : don't pass trough fire.  It's not a problem if your timer runs out, an other player will get the control.  Don't rush survivors if they are waiting for you, throw stone from a distance until your partner can start some chaos.  Use cars and logs when you can.

[DraconianOne]

Left 4 Dead Survival Pack announced. DLC includes SDK for PC users, new Versus campaigns and Survival mode.

[SnakeCharmer]

When I first saw that, I was like 

Then I saw the release date, and I was like 

Damnit.

[Velorath]

When I first saw that, I was like 

Then I saw the release date, and I was like 

Damnit.

It's not like Spring is that far off.

[Falconeer]

Call me naïf, but for some reason (read: lack of longevity of L4D) I was expecting lots of free upgrades as they did for TF2.
I'll buy this one but unless I missed something I am somewhat disappointed.

[Prospero]

It's free. For the PC at least.

[Falconeer]

That is the part I was missing then! Are you sure? Anyway yay!

[DraconianOne]

Pretty sure it's free but they're re-releasing a retail version which has all the DLC included on it as well.

Hopefully the SDK will let people put in Romero zombie mods as well as being a campaign builder. I'll also put money on the fact that the first user created map/campaign to be released will feature a Mall.

Did the TF2 SDK let new game types be developed?

[Malakili]

Pretty sure it's free but they're re-releasing a retail version which has all the DLC included on it as well.

Hopefully the SDK will let people put in Romero zombie mods as well as being a campaign builder. I'll also put money on the fact that the first user created map/campaign to be released will feature a Mall.

Did the TF2 SDK let new game types be developed?

Not really.  For instance, people made pl maps that were a bit less pretty before Valve actually released the pl map stuff.   There are creative uses of existing mechanics (Like cp_steel), which are a bit different, but not really entirely new game types per se.

Some of us have already been messing around with user created maps in Left 4 Dead, you can sort of fake Hammer into letting you use the content in L4D, but you've got to do a bit of work.

http://www.l4dmaps.com/

[NiX]

That is the part I was missing then! Are you sure? Anyway yay!

Valve has heard you and many others like you: It is free.

[schild]

Survival Mode will hopefully be a ripoff of Zombie Survival. In which case, it will instantly become a game I play too much. I fear for my personal time.

[LK]

Survival Mode will hopefully be a ripoff of Zombie Survival. In which case, it will instantly become a game I play too much. I fear for my personal time.

Unfortunately I fear when survival mode comes the best place to be is standing in a closet.

[schild]

Survival Mode will hopefully be a ripoff of Zombie Survival. In which case, it will instantly become a game I play too much. I fear for my personal time.

Unfortunately I fear when survival mode comes the best place to be is standing in a closet.

I know! I can't wait!

[Samwise]

I kinda hope at some point they do something about the "unassailable corner" defense.  The game was more fun before everyone figured that one out.

[NiX]

I kinda hope at some point they do something about the "unassailable corner" defense.  The game was more fun before everyone figured that one out.

Depending on the corner, it's breakable. It just takes coordination. Smoker does a quick pull to disorient, boomer with the vomit and as the rush happens hunters jump into the fray. It works about 50% of the time.

[Samwise]

Smoker tongues get broken by bashing at the person being pulled, and since everyone in the corner is bashing constantly, this is not usually difficult.  Assuming the smoker can even get the tongue to land before someone sees it and pops it (they have their backs to the corner so you can't approach from outside their field of view).

Hunters have similar issues; the leap will be interrupted half the time by a bash (it seems like you can get around this by coming from above, assuming you don't have one person who bashes up), and the rest of the time you'll be knocked off the victim before you can get your first claw in.

Boomer hordes are pretty much irrelevant if you have a wall-of-bash up.  Even one person can hold off a horde pretty easily with their back to a corner; with four it's not even a minor inconvenience.

Now, if someone fucks up, you can always take advantage of that, but if you're playing against four people who know the trick, it's pretty much impenetrable, even by a Tank.

The simplest fix to my mind would be to make players block other players, so you can't fit four people into one narrow space.  The usual reason for not wanting this (griefing) is pretty much out the window with L4D since it generally makes it really easy to screw your own team anyway if you're so inclined.

[gryeyes]

Even with the smoker pull changes you will not break any corner dog pile by even semi-competent players. I was thinking give the smoker a DoT effect with the smokescreen that happens when one dies. Forcing the group to move or take progressive damage from remaining still. Melee/stacking creates an impenetrable barrier that is next to impossible to break. Maybe a new zombie with some form of ranged/AoE attack?

Something is needed to force movement. Every encounter will quickly devolve into the survivors hiding in a corner/room and be neigh invulnerable regardless of what the infected do.

[Valmorian]

Something is needed to force movement. Every encounter will quickly devolve into the survivors hiding in a corner/room and be neigh invulnerable regardless of what the infected do.

You CAN Break those situations, but it just takes WAY too long, so it's generally not worth it.  Most players playing hunters jump directly at their prey, when if you come in from above them (leap JUST over their head) you can pin even through continual melee attacks.  You get knocked off pretty quick though.. So the chipping away of heath through attacks is way too slow.

[gryeyes]

Something is needed to force movement. Every encounter will quickly devolve into the survivors hiding in a corner/room and be neigh invulnerable regardless of what the infected do.

You CAN Break those situations, but it just takes WAY too long, so it's generally not worth it.  Most players playing hunters jump directly at their prey, when if you come in from above them (leap JUST over their head) you can pin even through continual melee attacks.  You get knocked off pretty quick though.. So the chipping away of heath through attacks is way too slow.

Pouncing for 3 damage (any pounce with more distance you will be gibbed in air or smacked by melee) to be instantly knocked off is not "breaking the circle". And even being able to land that very ineffectual pounce is a rare proposition. Even if on fire you will do more damage just running up to them in the swarm and meleeing the survivors a majority of the time.

Chipping away at a team in a corner is not about pounces. Its about using the boomer and hoping someone gibs you while on top of the survivors forcing a knock back effect and giving your team a "brief" moment to pounce/pull. But as i said this wont work on even a semi competent group of players.

[Triforcer]

Perhaps I am missing something here, but how is the group moving forward if it is constantly in a shield wall in the corner?

[gryeyes]

Perhaps I am missing something here, but how is the group moving forward if it is constantly in a shield wall in the corner?

They cant move forward of course but any corner in the game can be used for this. So any tank/swarm/event is instantly and easily nullified. There are ways to use this to your advantage (very cheap/exploity ways). It just generally makes versus pretty damn boring and its far to effective.

[Valmorian]

Pouncing for 3 damage (any pounce with more distance you will be gibbed in air or smacked by melee) to be instantly knocked off is not "breaking the circle".

A well done pounce also does some knockback, btw.  It's just not easy to pull off.

[Samwise]

Perhaps I am missing something here, but how is the group moving forward if it is constantly in a shield wall in the corner?

You don't do this all the time, just during the "event" sections where the idea is to defend against a rush for a set amount of time.  In No Mercy, that'd be the door-opening in the subway (everyone gets under the pipe in the corner to wait it out), the ladder-raising before the sewers (everyone gets in the building across the way to wait it out), the elevator in the hospital (everyone gets in the corner next to the ammo pile to wait it out), and the rooftop rescue (everyone piles in between the AC units to wait for the chopper).

All the rest of the time, there isn't that much to defend against unless you're up against a very organized set of Infected players who'll make a coordinated strike en route.  Even then there are a finite set of good "ambush spots" on the map that an equally organized set of survivors will shield-wall to wait out (i.e. they'll hole up until the infected get bored and try to dislodge them, which generally ruins the ambush and lets them proceed to the next point).

[Malakili]

Perhaps I am missing something here, but how is the group moving forward if it is constantly in a shield wall in the corner?

You don't do this all the time, just during the "event" sections where the idea is to defend against a rush for a set amount of time.  In No Mercy, that'd be the door-opening in the subway (everyone gets under the pipe in the corner to wait it out), the ladder-raising before the sewers (everyone gets in the building across the way to wait it out), the elevator in the hospital (everyone gets in the corner next to the ammo pile to wait it out), and the rooftop rescue (everyone piles in between the AC units to wait for the chopper).

All the rest of the time, there isn't that much to defend against unless you're up against a very organized set of Infected players who'll make a coordinated strike en route.  Even then there are a finite set of good "ambush spots" on the map that an equally organized set of survivors will shield-wall to wait out (i.e. they'll hole up until the infected get bored and try to dislodge them, which generally ruins the ambush and lets them proceed to the next point).

Yes, this is pretty much exactly my experience of the game.  Its really a shame, but versus mode is pretty much ruined to me.  People generally don't cheese their way through campaign mode this way, for whatever reason.   As soon as they are competing with actual players instead of a computer, people just want to win at all costs without a lot of regard for anything else.  In campaign mode, the game does a pretty good job of making you feel like you really are in a zombie apocalypse movie, which is the appeal of the game to me in the first place. 

*shrugs*

[KallDrexx]

So uh.

I'm going to be called a retard for this I'm sure but....

I just played left 4 dead for the first time tonight (I kinda took a haitus from gaming for a bit).  Except for the game freezing on me this is freaking win.  Most fun I had gaming in a good while. 

That is all....

[TheWalrus]

I still have fun on this game. Played the shit out of it too. My hunter needs some work yet, but I'm good to darn good with everything else.

How can killing zombies with friends not be fun?

[Logik]

I'm going to echo the sentiments of KallDrexx above me--sans the freezing issue.  This was my first time playing as well, and when the Bill I had been playing with through the No Mercy campaign got pulled off the pad right as the helo landed--well that pretty much made the game for me.  I shot the smoker that tagged him, of course, but he was lost to us in the wave of undead, and all that was left was to look on as the survivors hopped into the chopper.

[Samwise]

The game's still actually pretty fun and I'm still playing it a fair bit.  It's just not as fun as it was before people "solved" it IMO.

[Sky]

It's just not as fun as it was before people "solved" it IMO.

This would be why I didn't buy the game. Seemed a very short life span, if you'll pardon the pun.

To be fair, most FPS games end up that way, folks figure out the maps and it's just going through the motions. I remember in UT trying to see how many seconds it would take to win some Assault maps. Meh.

[schild]

The game's still actually pretty fun and I'm still playing it a fair bit.  It's just not as fun as it was before people "solved" it IMO.

I don't understand what you mean.

[Samwise]

Before people knew the optimal play patterns, it felt more like a zombie movie.  When one of those big rushes came, people would try to cover doorways and windows and gun down the zombies before they could get close.  It was awesome.  Now, it's all corner-crouching and clubbing.  Less awesome.

Take, for example, the elevator rush in the hospital level of No Mercy.  The first few times I did that bit, it was by crouching behind the little barrier in front of the elevator (the spot that looks like it's set up as a defensive position) and shooting.  Two people would shoot down the hallway, with the two others guarding the flanks as the zombies started to break down the walls.  When the elevator came, there was a fighting retreat to get inside, usually with everyone just making it in as the door slammed on the zombies.  It was exhilarating.

Now?  Every single time, it's "crouch in the corner and bash until all the zombies are gone."  You can't even see the zombies because you're wedged inside the other three people.  But if you don't get on board with that, you're dead because nobody's going to cover your stupid sub-optimal ass.  The opening of the door and corresponding zombie rush isn't even exciting any more, because you can just stay in that corner until the wave of zombies finally runs out and then stroll into the elevator without a care in the world.

[schild]

Oh. I play so very little. Rather, I play when I need a zombie fix. Assuming Survival Mode is a ripoff of Zombie Survival, my playtimes will drastically change. I wonder if Valve can do the earlier versions of that game justice. It was a delightful mix of bad design and insanity. They need to add the ability to move furniture.