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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Warhammer Online (Moderator: tazelbain)  |  Topic: Ward Gear is the worst mistake ever concieved 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Ward Gear is the worst mistake ever concieved  (Read 26053 times)
Driakos
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Posts: 400


Reply #70 on: November 19, 2008, 02:56:36 PM

The grind is to slow player progress for whatever reason.  (sometimes the grind is just how it goes when the game is low on PVE content, but still has levels e.g. Shadowbane)  I can't tell in WAR's case, if the grind was added to try and garner more sub fees, or if it was added to allow more dev/patch time for T3/T4 areas.

Ideally, you'd think that a service would want players to resubscribe because they were enjoying themselves, and pay their fees for persistence/storage/patches.  I think sometimes player enjoyment gets lost in the $ scramble, and "subscribe by any means" takes over.  Which is short-sighted.  Happy players bring friends.

If a game is overall fun, the grind is not noticed.  (or is it that fun games, don't have true grinds?)  Maybe rather, the grind is what you do during periods of little to no content (or unfun) while leveling.  We kind of fuck ourselves as players too, by choosing repetitive, efficient xp per hour activities, instead of the *fun* path.

Though in WAR's case, there's not enough content to avoid the scenario/PQ grind in T3+

oh god how did this get here I am not good with computer
raydeen
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Posts: 1246


Reply #71 on: November 19, 2008, 02:59:55 PM

Simple question ,

Has any mmorpg dev every said what the negative is behind having a fast xps curve that would allow casuals to have two or three max level classes and hardcore pretty much all of them ?

In a game like this especially , with so many classes and two sides where you could play each side on different servers , what is the logical reason behind not making xps requirements low enough where you could continually reroll and progress through the tiers and try out a lot of the classes ?

How does a heavy grind/curve help in any way ? Why would it be "bad" if by doing just the quests in your own racial area that you could get to  40 relatively easy ?

Seems like it would help solve part of the problem of having people in all the tiers and also just make it more fun overall




The negative impact would be that these games by their nature are finite. There's only so many places to go and so many foozles to kill and so many lootz to be had. The devs don't want the playerbase churning through content so fast that they will have seen everything in a month or two. Problem is, most players will zoom through the content no matter what, get to the end and say 'What now?'. Then they get bored and go try something different. There's nothing to keep them enamored with the product unless new content is continually introduced. The trick would be to have less of a focus on what is in the world and more of a focus on what can I do with what is there. Or just rip out all the messy bits and have Unreal Warhammer Tournament Craft where it doesn't matter how well or how poorly you do as the Matrix will just reset at some point and you can try to do better the next time.

I was drinking when I wrote this, so sue me if it goes astray.
Lantyssa
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Posts: 20848


Reply #72 on: November 19, 2008, 04:17:37 PM

I'd like to see a system kind of like Guild Wars skill collection and limited slots in the field (maybe more than eight and some passives, but some limit for balance), and a lack of levels.  You can go out into the world to collect skills by doing quests, beating up elites, gathering renown, or what have you.  Some are easy to get, some will have you wandering the world.  The content is there for fun, and does give you some advancement, but you can pick and choose or go about randomly.

Think of WAR where everyone is more or less "rank 40" from the start, but they doing things for skill collection.  Renown rank could be spent for skills (wasn't that what they originally told us?), or you could do some quests with the deeper into the world you got being the harder to acquire skills.  Maybe even loot skills from enemies.  Would it work?

I dunno, but levels and the absolute need to raise them to have a hope against your competition seems like that sort of system would be an improvement to me.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
amiable
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Posts: 2126


Reply #73 on: November 19, 2008, 07:36:00 PM

This alone made me consider writing a long post apologizing to Cevik.  I seriously underestimated Mythic's tendencies to shoot themselves in the foot.  PvE cockblock?  in 2008?  Screw that i'm playing TF2/Fallout.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 03:11:30 AM by amiable »
Nebu
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Posts: 17613


Reply #74 on: November 19, 2008, 08:34:09 PM

I'd like to see a system kind of like Guild Wars skill collection and limited slots in the field (maybe more than eight and some passives, but some limit for balance), and a lack of levels.  You can go out into the world to collect skills by doing quests, beating up elites, gathering renown, or what have you.  Some are easy to get, some will have you wandering the world.  The content is there for fun, and does give you some advancement, but you can pick and choose or go about randomly.

I'd love to see a system like this as well.  Sadly, I think balance problems would render the idea meaningless. You'd eventually see the elite using very similar power sets or combinations of sets with other players that min-max performance.  Then the X powers players have to choose from really get boiled down to 10 or 12.  The idea is workable but would take a lot of planning and tweaking.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
trias_e
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Posts: 1296


Reply #75 on: November 19, 2008, 09:19:53 PM

Quote
This alone made me consider writing a long post apologizing to Cevik.


shiiit.  forgot about him.  awkward.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #76 on: November 20, 2008, 08:44:00 AM

The only excuse I've ever seen devs say is that once people hit the level cap, they leave. Althought, really, this is not the case in a lot of instances, especially when there is PVP.

Morfiend
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Posts: 6009

wants a greif tittle


Reply #77 on: November 20, 2008, 09:55:17 AM

The only excuse I've ever seen devs say is that once people hit the level cap, they leave.

Someone should tell them to have a look at WoWs sub numbers.
Nebu
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Posts: 17613


Reply #78 on: November 20, 2008, 09:59:09 AM

Get to the level cap and you realize several things immediately:

1) There's too much pve in my pvp zone.

2) Killing people of lower RR, but of nearly identical power nets you 1 rp.

3) There's no incentive for having a WAR.  It's a property exchange.   

Hell, you don't have to get to the cap to see this... it just gets more angering when you get there and realize it more clearly.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
waylander
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Posts: 526


Reply #79 on: November 21, 2008, 09:32:53 AM

Sigmar's run last night was the first for me since the last patch. We had a good group so a 2+ hour run only gook an hour and 10 minutes. The sad part is that 5 pieces of gear dropped for witch hunters and shadow warrriors, and we had neither in the group.

Is it too much to ask that the dam rewards drop something for each class in a party or what?

Lords of the Dead
Gaming Press - Retired
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23611


Reply #80 on: November 21, 2008, 09:42:31 AM

Is it too much to ask that the dam rewards drop something for each class in a party or what?
Yes, yes it is awesome, for real
Bismallah
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Posts: 322


Reply #81 on: November 21, 2008, 09:43:11 AM

Get to the level cap and you realize several things immediately:

1) There's too much pve in my pvp zone.

2) Killing people of lower RR, but of nearly identical power nets you 1 rp.

3) There's no incentive for having a WAR.  It's a property exchange.   

Hell, you don't have to get to the cap to see this... it just gets more angering when you get there and realize it more clearly.

Very valid points.
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