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Author Topic: Herald Updates 141108  (Read 12804 times)
Arthur_Parker
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on: November 14, 2008, 01:44:44 PM

Hot fixes

Quote
Here's some hot fixes for you going into this weekend:
Combat and Careers

Black Orc
Da Plan will no longer suddenly reset while using abilities.
Swordmaster
Balance will no longer suddenly reset while using abilities.
Content

Fixed an issue with the “Blood Pool’ ability of the Bastion Stair boss Lord Slaurith.
Fixed an issue with Skull Lord Var'Ithrok in the Bastion Stair that was causing him to stop defending himself.
Players will be no long be able to reenter the Bastion Stair boss instances while group members are in combat with a boss.

Nice change if you CTD.

Grab Bag No. 5 - Heavy Metal Live Event!

Quote
The Heavy Metal event will begin Tuesday, November 18, 2008 in order to coincide with the release of Game Update 1.0.5. Please watch the Herald for more details!

Welcome to the Heavy Metal Special issue of the Grab Bag, where we’ll concentrate on the Live Event which introduces two new classes to the front lines – the Black Guard on Destruction’s side, and the Knight of the Blazing Sun on Order’s side. This event starts next week, which is just around the corner! Read up and get ready, it’s time for some serious WAAAGH!

Q. I take it those people who have unlocked the classes will be able to continue playing them once they're released for others? Not just a preview period?

A. Yes, once you unlock the class you’ll be able to play it for as long as you choose. If you don’t do the event, you will still be able to play the classes, just not a week early.

Q. Will the early unlocking of the classes be doable by lesser tiers characters? Or will you have to have a T4 char to unlock them?

A. The goal of the event is that every task is soloable, can be done by any level, and is doable in an hour or less.

Q. When I complete the live event with a character, can I only make a KotBS/Blackgaurd on that specific server or will I be able to make one on a different server. Also if I complete it as a destruction character will I be able to create a KotBS, or if on Order be able to create a Blackguard (on a different server)?

A. Once you complete the event and receive your elite reward, your account is flagged as an account which can access the Black Guard and Knight of the Blazing Sun early. Both careers are unlocked at once and you can create them on any server you choose.
 
Q. Will you fill out the influence solely by doing the daily quests/tasks, or will extras be required? If it can be done just by completing the tasks, then will there be a lottery amongst the people who reach elite influence, or will you pick out the targets that did the best/ got the highest score etc.?

A. The influence bar will fill just by completing the daily tasks. If you complete every task, you will fill your influence bar to 100% and more. Everyone who gets enough influence for the elite reward will unlock the careers for the extra time, there will be no lottery.

Q. Are the 'live events' for this one going to be pvp only for some parts of it? Or will pve be able to be done to complete it (but at a slower pace)?

A. Each daily task is different. Some are pvp and some are pve, but you’ll have to do a mixture of both. About half of them are based in Reikland Factory, so make sure you queue up on the days that it’s required!
....
Q. With the new Careers, will we also get a new character slot?

A. We don’t have plans to add another character slot for the new classes.

Q. Will I be able to play the new careers immediately after receiving the elite reward?

A. Not immediately after. The new careers will be available one week before everyone else, for those who succeed in unlocking them. Make sure you watch the Herald for the exact date!
....
Q. Quoted from the KoTBS page: As with all heavily armored fighters the Knight of the Blazing sun is slower at closing the distance with ranged attackers and can be very vulnerable to ranged magic or missile fire. Does this mean that KOTBS is more vulnerable in these areas than other careers are?

A.  No, not at all. The Knight is just as capable as any other career of his archetype -

it's that none of the Tank archetype careers are as mobile as the more lightly-armored melee attackers.  The best way for enemies to take down the Knights (and all of his other heavily-armored brethren) is from a distance, where their lack of significant long-range attacks puts them at the greatest disadvantage.  Naturally, however, Knights are sturdy defenders, and when they weather your assault and close the distance, then the tables will turn!

Here at Mythic, remember ranged DPS > all

Additional Hot Fix - 11/14/2008

Quote
We have one additional hot fix for you today:

General Changes and Bug Fixes:
The loot bag drop rate for the City Invasion Public Quests has been brought more in line with the difficulty of the encounters.

We don't nerf things, we just bring them more in line with other things.

I started a Shaman to try out the destruction side, from memory, the starter quests seem more fun than the Empire ones.  The early equipment that drops has a lot of talisman slots, it's fairly obvious to me so far that they had more fun or ideas doing content for Destruction, maybe they did them first.  Anyway, there's a population imbalance in favour of destruction, so you'd think they at least pretend to be impartial and avoid being so obvious in their bias by listing Destruction classes before Order classes on the Herald each time.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 01:58:32 PM

They're doing it alphabetical though I guess you can say that the alphabet favors destruction.

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Megrim
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Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 04:17:20 PM

So, i have to now unlock the class that i wanted to play at release, which they then cut so i couldn't play it any more? I mean, sure, it's a minor gripe, but come on this is getting down right retarded. What are they trying to do, compete with WotLK?

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Rendakor
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Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 04:32:30 PM

So, i have to now unlock the class that i wanted to play at release, which they then cut so i couldn't play it any more? I mean, sure, it's a minor gripe, but come on this is getting down right retarded. What are they trying to do, compete with WotLK?
Sounds like eq2 frogloks all over again.

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Reply #4 on: November 14, 2008, 04:47:17 PM

hahahaaaahaahah
Hindenburg
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Reply #5 on: November 14, 2008, 05:04:39 PM

So, i have to now unlock the class that i wanted to play at release, which they then cut so i couldn't play it any more? I mean, sure, it's a minor gripe, but come on this is getting down right retarded. What are they trying to do, compete with WotLK?

They did say that it would only take about an hour to unlock the class.

Then they said that get leet rep won't unlock the class right away.

I'm willing to say that they'll fuck up. Don't know when or how, but they will.

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Kail
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Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 05:25:34 PM

So, i have to now unlock the class that i wanted to play at release, which they then cut so i couldn't play it any more? I mean, sure, it's a minor gripe, but come on this is getting down right retarded. What are they trying to do, compete with WotLK?

As far as I know, the unlock is only for the "seven day headstart" stuff.  Everyone else gets to play as them after the event ends.

And I really, really doubt it'll be doable in an hour.  Each individual task may only take an hour, but as I'm reading it, it looks like you'll have to repeat it a number of times to max your rep (in other words, play for one hour or so each day for X number of days).
Gurney
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Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 10:12:54 PM

Unlock the classes so that you can can play them early?

I thought they were like actually trying to patch things in a timely manner.  Oh I forgot, apparently all their customers are brain dead morons.  At least that is what they seem to think.
Goreschach
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Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 10:34:52 PM

Grind for everything, bitches.
pxib
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Reply #9 on: November 15, 2008, 04:05:23 PM

I started a Shaman to try out the destruction side, from memory, the starter quests seem more fun than the Empire ones.  The early equipment that drops has a lot of talisman slots, it's fairly obvious to me so far that they had more fun or ideas doing content for Destruction, maybe they did them first.
I have feeling it's mostly about being on the winning side vs. being on the losing side. Everywhere you go as Order is a wasteland, barely hanging on, with the forces of destruction breathing down your neck at all times. All of the quest text is about how totally overwhelming Destruction is and how totally doomed the Order resistance is: Understaffed, overworked, overwhelmed. You never completely defeat the enemy. They just keep coming. Battle fatigue sets in.

The beginning of the Destruction quest sequences is all about running around causing trouble. You obviously have Order pinned down and things are going SO well that you've got soldiers to spare and can just throw them around on pointlessly cruel and creative missions. Wheeeeee...

I never got far enough to see if those attitudes change by the time you hit quests in tier 3 and 4.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #10 on: November 15, 2008, 04:25:03 PM

I know for the elves it's even more desperate in Tier 3.  It's all "Holy crap they've penetrated our unpenatrable wall and are stealing our magic to use against us!  You must stop them now or we're dooooomed!"  Only to be told that time and again, no matter how often I personally save the day, that they've beaten us.

I do particularly like how the high elves are making you do all these missions to secure one of the three gates, which you do end up defending.  Only to find out in the next tier, or if you are doing the dark elf side of things, it was all a feint to take another of the gates that for some reason isn't as prestigeous to hold, but is every bit as vital to stopping the dark elves' advance.  I cackled with my Disciple at the joy of using the high elves hubris against them.  I cried at their stupidity and arrogance with my Swordmaster.

So yeah, there probably is a psychological factor there.

I didn't actually feel that way with the Dwarf and Greenskin zones though.  Maybe they're a little better because you get the impression the Greenskins have already overwhelmed everything from the beginning, and your job is to thin the herd.  Too bad the zone design is almost too thought out, since the overlapping areas cause a lot of confusion with the placement of PQs.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
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Reply #11 on: November 15, 2008, 05:04:37 PM

Yeah, I noticed the slanting toward Destruction aswell. Every onset camp seemed to be Order, while the enemy camps were untouchable. Staving off the aggressors, at best.

It touches onto some deeper issues WAR has aswell, I think, when it concerns the two factions - Mythic couldn't see what would drive Empire, High Elves and Dwarfs to work together. For Destruction it's simple - it's simply destruction, mayhem, havoc, world domination. It's not really at all in line with the table top, but I guess that's beside the point.

What we got on Order side were three races that Mythic viewed as "pacifists", that strived toward peace rather than the death of their enemies. Again, completely missing the point of the table top. Empire is a well-oiled war machine that pillages and burns their enemies' steads with Preussian discipline, Dwarfs hate, HATE Greenskins (not just mildly upset that they're invading) in the same way High Elves bear a grudge toward Dark Elves. It's not a war, per se, it's a mutual attempt at ethnic cleansing. Neither is it the territorial war which WAR tries to make it. Gain of territory is (albeit welcome) a side effect. It's about killing. Perhaps they should add frag counters to WAR, because essentially, the killing is more important than controlling land.

But somewhere down the assembly line, this hatred got dulled because the writers felt the "good" races couldn't bear such inherent contempt, it had to be motivated - the good guys can't fight without a good cause. So we have "good versus evil", per usual. Therein lies the problem - Warhammer does not have good or evil, good or bad causes. It does not support a "good versus evil" conflict because it doesn't side with any one race, not even Empire. It only has conflicts so ancient, hatred burning so hot that not having a war is simply unthinkable and something no side is would consider.

Hm, not very coherent, but hey, it's 2 AM. I just think they missed an opportunity of really making the vitriol show, that Order isn't out to defend themselves - they're out to murder every single motherfucker that comes within arm's reach.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 05:06:19 PM by Tarami »

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HaemishM
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Reply #12 on: November 15, 2008, 07:50:22 PM

Yes, you are correct. The Warhammer backstory is just brutally oppressive, and there are no good guys. The Emperor Sigmar would just as soon burn a village as save it, especially when it's become corrupted by the Chaos cooties. The Dark Elves are High Elves who were corrupted by Chaos. It actually would have made more sense for the third destruction side to be Skaven, since they are Warp-corrupted rat fuckers than Orcs. Orcs are just fungi with a taste for battle.

squirrel
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Reply #13 on: November 15, 2008, 09:08:57 PM

Accurate comments about Mythic and GW missing the boat on the genocidal theme of the factions.

Yeah this really bugs me too. High Elves and Empire particularly should not be "Oh woe is me the ebil ones are here!". That's just not what it's about. If anything Empire is more evil due to its self awareness.

Anyway, a real pity they fucked this up because they felt there had to be a "good" side and a "bad" side. No idea why, cause that's not in the TT world.
It only has conflicts so ancient, hatred burning so hot that not having a war is simply unthinkable and something no side is would consider.
Sigh. That is the beauty of hatred. And they soo missed the boat.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 09:10:38 PM by squirrel »

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
NiX
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Reply #14 on: November 15, 2008, 09:51:46 PM

Tell me you're not surprised they missed the boat though. This is Mythic we're talking about. I think we all agreed at the announcement of them picking up the IP that they would butcher most of the what made the TT version of WAR so good.

Oh I forgot, apparently all their customers are brain dead morons.  At least that is what they seem to think.

If people are paying for them to continuously piss in their face, then I don't think Mythic is wrong in thinking that.
Tarami
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Reply #15 on: November 16, 2008, 02:51:14 AM

Yes, you are correct. The Warhammer backstory is just brutally oppressive, and there are no good guys. The Emperor Sigmar would just as soon burn a village as save it, especially when it's become corrupted by the Chaos cooties. The Dark Elves are High Elves who were corrupted by Chaos. It actually would have made more sense for the third destruction side to be Skaven, since they are Warp-corrupted rat fuckers than Orcs. Orcs are just fungi with a taste for battle.
Skaven are too awesome to be in an MMO. We can't have good things.

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Reply #16 on: November 16, 2008, 03:36:42 AM

Yes, you are correct. The Warhammer backstory is just brutally oppressive, and there are no good guys. The Emperor Sigmar would just as soon burn a village as save it, especially when it's become corrupted by the Chaos cooties. The Dark Elves are High Elves who were corrupted by Chaos. It actually would have made more sense for the third destruction side to be Skaven, since they are Warp-corrupted rat fuckers than Orcs. Orcs are just fungi with a taste for battle.

I wonder if Mythic asked GW how the various sides sold in order to give them an idea about the popularity of Order vs Destruction, because I think they would have seen that Chaos and Greenskins are a hell of a lot more popular than High Elves.

I have no issue with the new classes being available one week early to those who wish to aim for it, but my questions about them have always been:

1) If they weren't good enough at release, who's been testing them since to bring them up to scratch?

2) Do they really change any of the issues that WAR is currently experiencing?

I also think that this kind of reward structure will see people unlock the new classes to create a new alt, only to run into empty-ish zones at Tier 1 and any class bugs / flaws that exist when the classes go live. A major issue going forward is that 20 or so classes require 20 or so is making sure that their are items for each, which could certainly be an issue for new classes that got patched out.

Arthur_Parker
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Reply #17 on: November 16, 2008, 04:50:06 AM

I wonder if Mythic asked GW how the various sides sold in order to give them an idea about the popularity of Order vs Destruction, because I think they would have seen that Chaos and Greenskins are a hell of a lot more popular than High Elves.

Eurogamer interview with Mark Jacobs

Quote
Eurogamer: Excellent. So, er, which side should we join? We were going to be Destruction but everybody seems to be flocking there...

Mark Jacobs: Yeah, there's a lot more going to Destruction, as we knew they would in the beginning. Looking at the Warhammer IP we figured the guys coming in early would be your hardcore guys, the guys that have been following the IP for years, or even decades. We knew they would go to Destruction. But one of the things I've been telling players is, "Look, just wait a bit." My guess is that when we get into the Standard Edition folks, and the folks who don't know as much about Warhammer, then they are going to start to go to the Order side. They have the High Elves and the Dwarfs and the Humans, which for a lot of players are quite comfortable.

And we've already seen that. We tracked it on the servers and they've started with a much larger percentage playing Destruction and then it's already started to ease out on day two, and we expect it to ease out even more on day three, and by launch it will ease out even more.

Can't get much clearer than that, apparently, only newbs pick Order.
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #18 on: November 16, 2008, 05:06:42 AM

If people are paying for them to continuously piss in their face, then I don't think Mythic is wrong in thinking that.

Given that xfire sample and what we see daily in game, the majority took, and is still taking, their money somewhere else.

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Tarami
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Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 05:46:02 AM

Quote
Eurogamer: Excellent. So, er, which side should we join? We were going to be Destruction but everybody seems to be flocking there...

Mark Jacobs: Yeah, there's a lot more going to Destruction, as we knew they would in the beginning. Looking at the Warhammer IP we figured the guys coming in early would be your hardcore guys, the guys that have been following the IP for years, or even decades. We knew they would go to Destruction. But one of the things I've been telling players is, "Look, just wait a bit." My guess is that when we get into the Standard Edition folks, and the folks who don't know as much about Warhammer, then they are going to start to go to the Order side. They have the High Elves and the Dwarfs and the Humans, which for a lot of players are quite comfortable.

And we've already seen that. We tracked it on the servers and they've started with a much larger percentage playing Destruction and then it's already started to ease out on day two, and we expect it to ease out even more on day three, and by launch it will ease out even more.
Go home Mark, just... go home. Cry

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Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 07:07:06 AM

Eurogamer interview with Mark Jacobs

Quote
Eurogamer: Excellent. So, er, which side should we join? We were going to be Destruction but everybody seems to be flocking there...

Mark Jacobs: Yeah, there's a lot more going to Destruction, as we knew they would in the beginning. Looking at the Warhammer IP we figured the guys coming in early would be your hardcore guys, the guys that have been following the IP for years, or even decades. We knew they would go to Destruction. But one of the things I've been telling players is, "Look, just wait a bit." My guess is that when we get into the Standard Edition folks, and the folks who don't know as much about Warhammer, then they are going to start to go to the Order side. They have the High Elves and the Dwarfs and the Humans, which for a lot of players are quite comfortable.

And we've already seen that. We tracked it on the servers and they've started with a much larger percentage playing Destruction and then it's already started to ease out on day two, and we expect it to ease out even more on day three, and by launch it will ease out even more.


The interesting thing is that a week after that interview, other people from Mythic said:

Quote
We know from previous games we've worked on, the good guys tend to be significantly more popular. Everyone wants to save the princess and have shiny armor. Even though we don't offer any princess saving in our game, we knew that the good guys were going to wind up generally more popular in the long term.

At launch Jacobs was saying that Destruction only had a 10% lead over Order in terms of population, but I wonder if someone important to do something actually broke it down by server and by PvP / RvR involvement. If your hardcore PvPers are all Destruction and your Order players are more of a mix, that's going to cause some very specific problems not revealed by overall numbers.

But anyway: realm imbalance was expected, plans to fix realm imbalance was "boost xp, then maybe boost damage bonuses then maybe boost wounds but hey it'll never happen and we'll tinker with it as we go". It really had to be automatic, to deal with the ebbs and flows of population, not static per server fixes. Hindsight plays a role, of course, but so does thinking things through up front.

khaine
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Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 07:09:09 AM

Yes, you are correct. The Warhammer backstory is just brutally oppressive, and there are no good guys. The Emperor Sigmar would just as soon burn a village as save it, especially when it's become corrupted by the Chaos cooties. The Dark Elves are High Elves who were corrupted by Chaos. It actually would have made more sense for the third destruction side to be Skaven, since they are Warp-corrupted rat fuckers than Orcs. Orcs are just fungi with a taste for battle.

I wonder if Mythic asked GW how the various sides sold in order to give them an idea about the popularity of Order vs Destruction, because I think they would have seen that Chaos and Greenskins are a hell of a lot more popular than High Elves.

I have no issue with the new classes being available one week early to those who wish to aim for it, but my questions about them have always been:

1) If they weren't good enough at release, who's been testing them since to bring them up to scratch?

2) Do they really change any of the issues that WAR is currently experiencing?

I also think that this kind of reward structure will see people unlock the new classes to create a new alt, only to run into empty-ish zones at Tier 1 and any class bugs / flaws that exist when the classes go live. A major issue going forward is that 20 or so classes require 20 or so is making sure that their are items for each, which could certainly be an issue for new classes that got patched out.

I think they aren't going to be any different that they would have been at launch

My theory is the one and only reason they decided to throw them in now is a desperate attempt to do anything to entice people to sub for a another month

"Look at all these free content and new classes we are giving you , you can't leave now , we are doing more than any other mmorpg" is what MJ screamed when the announced the patch and classes coming in

I bet originally they were going to be held off for much longer , maybe even a paid expansion , but they went into desperation mode , unfortunately , it's stupid to throw in untested classes that do nothing to fix the major issues with the game overall

Honestly , have you ever see the main CEO/dev for a mmorpg try and sell a patch so hard , it comes off as amateurish at best
Trippy
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Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 07:19:12 AM

I think they aren't going to be any different that they would have been at launch

My theory is the one and only reason they decided to throw them in now is a desperate attempt to do anything to entice people to sub for a another month

"Look at all these free content and new classes we are giving you , you can't leave now , we are doing more than any other mmorpg" is what MJ screamed when the announced the patch and classes coming in

I bet originally they were going to be held off for much longer , maybe even a paid expansion , but they went into desperation mode , unfortunately , it's stupid to throw in untested classes that do nothing to fix the major issues with the game overall

Honestly , have you ever see the main CEO/dev for a mmorpg try and sell a patch so hard , it comes off as amateurish at best
They didn't have much choice with the WotLK launch right around the corner. They had to do whatever they could to keep people from unsubscribing (including resubbing cancelled accounts in Europe swamp poop).

Lantyssa
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Reply #23 on: November 16, 2008, 08:43:24 AM

At launch Jacobs was saying that Destruction only had a 10% lead over Order in terms of population, but I wonder if someone important to do something actually broke it down by server and by PvP / RvR involvement. If your hardcore PvPers are all Destruction and your Order players are more of a mix, that's going to cause some very specific problems not revealed by overall numbers.
You expect the people who give us gems like all of Jacob's quotes to get nuance and correct interpretation of their data? Ha ha ha ha haahahaha ha ha.  Ha.

Oh, that's a good one.

Heh.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Hayduke
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Reply #24 on: November 16, 2008, 08:49:44 AM

I wonder what portion of Order players are only playing that side because they wanted a good fight.  I think the realm imbalance is kind of understated because of that.
Sophismata
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Reply #25 on: November 16, 2008, 10:27:07 AM

The order classes lack the art direction and visual finesse of the destruction classes. The order stories and zones are based on a theme of futility. The order races are very distant from the source IP.

I really don't think Mythic tried with Order, and it saddens me. It's no wonder that Order is underpopulated, something that's fairly unprecedented in an MMO.


This is probably best summed up visually:

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/herald/images/community/gb/conqueror.jpg


Considering that they're mirror classes, which would you rather play?

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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #26 on: November 16, 2008, 11:29:31 AM

I'm not disagreeing with what anyone else is saying, so just in addition to the above.   

I also think it's probably more fun to write quests for the Destruction side, as a small example from my very limited time on the destruction side, that goblin quest that gets to launch yourself from a rock lobber up onto a Dwarf fort.
Lantyssa
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Reply #27 on: November 16, 2008, 11:34:10 AM

I wonder what portion of Order players are only playing that side because they wanted a good fight.  I think the realm imbalance is kind of understated because of that.
That was the case with my guild.  Many of us had much stronger feelings for wanting to play Destruction when it came to aesthetics, but the "we want a good fight" argument ultimate won.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #28 on: November 16, 2008, 12:42:29 PM

WAR saw wow at release and thought "ok everyone's playing alliance" and just 'assumed' everyone would play order. What they didn't take into account was 'why' people chose alliance in wow, it was full of the pretty races. Most alliance played human/elves and 'cute' gnomes. Do you have any idea how few dwarves there are? female dwarves don't even exist.

Then burning crusade came out and they introduce blood elves, the penultimate 'hot' race. Now horde seems about even and about 50% of the horde side is bloodelves, Mythic should have been paying closer attention and gone beyond scratching the surface.

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Arthur_Parker
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Reply #29 on: November 16, 2008, 01:48:51 PM

Another thing I want to touch on is that I believe during the initial design they didn't expect pvp or rvr to be that popular.  Now it may seem a bit crazy to mention that late in 2008 about a game called WAR, but if we consider that development started in 2004 and they probably had access to the design documents (crap though they may have been,) from Climax when started, then it's not that far fetched (The Climax forums had a real negative pvp vibe).

I seem to remember old quotes about placing the RVR zones within sight of the PVE zones so that players would be encouraged to experience pvp  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Anyway, here's a few quotes from old threads that mostly amused or in the Skaven case, interested me.

Joshua Drescher Q&A
Quote
So can you touch on character advancement at all?

No levels. Four tiers, with ranks within each tier. You'll have 4 XP bars that allow you to select "packages" of advancements - abilities, static buffs, skills, etc. that you want to work on. Three will be "standard" bars, one will be RvR-specific.
.................
What I want to know, is that how do you plan on balancing parties in PvP?

Current plan: Don't get much sleep at night, lie awake fixated on making it all work.

Seriously, though, RvR combat will come in three flavors:

Skirmish RvR - players stumbling across enemy players in RvR areas and fighting right then and there.
Battlefields - Static, objective-based areas (take objective in question, plant flag, etc) that help to focus skirmish RvR a bit.
Scenarios - Instanced, point-balanced, objective-based "arenas." This is our closest cousin to Fantasy Battle. All players will be worth a certain number of points based on a "we're-not-discussing-how-at-the-moment" set of stats. Players will be matched up evenly and groups with fewer points will be bolstered by NPC "Dogs of War." Dogs of War will be - obviously - worth less than their PC counterparts, but they'll allow us to avoid long queues AND one side constantly enjoying a slight but significant advantage due to population wierdness.
.............
How does PVE factor in to the game?

Fully-realized PvE is absolutely going to be there. Players don't ever need to set foot in any RvR zone in order to move through all four tiers. And vice-versa.

I would like to know how much time /played is your goal to "level" a character?

To be determined.

Leveling Grinds have been getting shorter and shorter, will Warhammer continues this trend?

By offering full-blown PvE and RvR in every tier, we hope to make the process essentially painless for most players. Nothing depresses our world designers more than the idea that people might blow through 80% of the stuff they hand-craft with love and disturbingly intense affection to get to the last portion of the game.

I am also interested in advancement through RvR. Will this be as speedy as normal "grinding", or at a mere fraction of normal XP rate?

I can't speak for final speeds, numbers, etc. but our intention is that players will find compelling reasons to engage in PvE AND RvR in all tiers.

See, that "no levels" comment, I thought it actually meant "no levels" for a while. 

Read this one again.  "Nothing depresses our world designers more than the idea that people might blow through 80% of the stuff they hand-craft with love and disturbingly intense affection to get to the last portion of the game."  That's how a game dies in development, no-one wants to cause offense by pointing out that the PVE quests are shitty or that adding thousands of them is maybe not such a hot idea.

Allakhazam/MMORPG Previews
Quote
You can go through the entire game on only PvP, only PvE, or (as they're hoping most folks do), a mix of both. The game starts 80% PvE 20% PvP, and they're planning on having it end up with the opposite ratio. There will be PvE raids for those that get bored of RvR, but RvR is the major focus of the game. You can RvR from day 1 of playing, there's no initial time where all you do is kill bats and rats.
..........
They're planning on having NO Bind on Pickup, and only maybe having Bind on Equip. They want a robust economy, and they're considering adding some sort of item decay to balance it out.

Quote
In Warhammer’s fiction, the races are all distinct personalities. Mythic set out to ensure that their difference are reflected in the way they built missions for each group.

To illustrate, Paul Barnett made two examples. In the first, he made a simple quest where someone asks a character from each race: “Would you please get a pie for me from the old lady down the road kind sir?” In short, a FedEx quest. In every MMORPG, the player would simply get the pie. In Warhammer, they set out to make sure that each race can do it in a unique way. Here is how Paul’s chart had each race react:

Empire: Gets the pie and returns it like a good little altar boy…the pats himself on the back for a job well done.
OR
Evil Empire: Gets the pie, wraps it up in a box with skulls and pseudo-latin phrases on it, and returns it like a good little altar boy…then adjusts his eye-patch and pats himself on the back for a job well done.
Dwarf: Gets the pie and checks it for gold… finding none he sells it for some ale.
Greenskin: Defecates in the pie… then eats it… then defecates some more… then decides to kill the person who asked him to get the pie.
Chaos: Kills the old lady, violates the pie, then wears it as a hat… then the pie grows an arm.
Elf: Too good for such a lowly errand.
Dark Elf: Betrays the pie then whines that he is the rightful owner of the pan the pie was cooked in.

He continued to demonstrate the difference through a second chart. In this he took the stock phrase “hello would you like to look at my sword” and translated it how each race would say it.

Orc: Oi Git, get a load of me choppa before I guts ya!
Elf: Remember the songs this blade has song for our family.
Human: (brandishes sword) What are you looking at stranger?
Dark Elf: (stabs person) You appear to have got your blood on my blade.
Dwarf: Sword, sword. Axe’s lad, we use axes!
Chaos: Blood for the blood god. Any ones blood will do, even yours.
This does not mean you can actually defecate as an Orc – I hope – but these two templates are the actual examples provided to the quest teams as they crafted content for each race in the world.

Even the early stage templates highlight, to me anyway, the more interesting aspects of the destruction side.

French interview with Paul Barnett

Quote
JoL : How are you going to include the future races which will come with extensions?
PB : The new races will join a faction. Order or Destruction. Only the Skavens will stay on their own ! We will create a new battlefront for them, because they fight everybody, nonetheless we don't know if the Skavens will come with the first expansion.


JoL : Will you really add all the races ? Do you know the first ones which will be added ?
PB : Practically all races yes, we think a lot of Wood Elves and Bretonnia. With Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts... Only Lustria don't interest us that much.

JoL : How do you expect to motivate the players to defend their realm and not their ally's ?
PB : It works with influence. Your king will grant you several rewards for having defend your realm whileyour influence toward him will grow. Then you shall work your influence with your allies'kings. They will also grant you rewards. Where it becomes big, it's that after having obtained a particular influence level towards your allies, your own king becomes active again and grants you for your global war effort ! You will thus accomplish a complete loop in 4 steps.
......
JoL : Tell me a bit about the craft system.
PB : I cannot. It is Mark Jacobs who looks after the craft and he knows exactly what he wants to do with it. We are finalizing the concept.
......
JoL : Are you going to use a communication system such as mailing boxes ?
PB : I cannot ... we will use a system, but it will most probably not be mailing boxes.

JoL : Mutant pigeons ?
PB : Maybe ! No mailing boxes, it is too classic.
.....

Worthplaying preview

Quote
In an unprecedented advancement for the genre, all avatars, NPCs, and monsters have full facial animation, breathing a little more life into your standard animated quest giver. Players can set their mood, so if they want to spend their in-game time smiling and happy or brooding, they have the option to do either and more. All characters in the game are well detailed, thanks to the high-resolution textures, and even without the specular lighting that is promised to be implemented in a later build, they look pretty good.

I want my full facial animation dogs of war! Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Edit - can't spell.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 02:12:29 PM by Arthur_Parker »
Hindenburg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1854

Itto


Reply #30 on: November 16, 2008, 02:05:19 PM

By offering full-blown PvE and RvR in every tier, we hope to make the process essentially painless for most players.

Fuck, i'd be glad with just that right now. Would it be that hard to set the xp value to x3, instead of that x1.2 mob/renown only shit they're using? Even with a whole rested bar, heavy questing and constant scenarios, leveling 10-20 takes too long as is.
Seriously, each chapter should give at least 2 levels, and you're lucky if you can get 70% of a level from a chapter above 5.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Bismallah
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Posts: 322


Reply #31 on: November 16, 2008, 02:37:08 PM

I wonder what portion of Order players are only playing that side because they wanted a good fight.  I think the realm imbalance is kind of understated because of that.

That was me. I play table top and have over 4-5k in Dark Elves alone, but chose Order because I knew Destruction was gonna be stacked. Guess I played that card wrong, but then again I just wouldnt have been too happy on Destruction either beating the shit out of the same 50 people every nite with 150 on my side.

<shrug> My account runs out in two days.
squirrel
Contributor
Posts: 1767


Reply #32 on: November 16, 2008, 04:58:44 PM

I wonder what portion of Order players are only playing that side because they wanted a good fight.  I think the realm imbalance is kind of understated because of that.
That was the case with my guild.  Many of us had much stronger feelings for wanting to play Destruction when it came to aesthetics, but the "we want a good fight" argument ultimate won.

I think this was the case with a lot of PvP players. I know it was with Bat Country. Or at least it was for me.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10619


Reply #33 on: November 16, 2008, 05:16:06 PM

Dwarves are the only Order race that is even vaguely interesting, and that is only because the others suck so bad.  Shadow hunters and White lions are complete garbage.  The swordmasters look like archmages.  I have trouble telling the two apart and they are both wearing dresses. 

I really can't believe how crappy of a job they did on the order side of things.
UnSub
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WWW
Reply #34 on: November 16, 2008, 05:39:39 PM

I think Arthur_Parker's trip down memory lane shows exactly why it is a bad idea to go on publicity blitzes a long time before anything is finalised.

"No levels"? Don't know how he said that with a straight face.

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