Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Ironwood]

Did you hear they took the word gullible out of the dictionary.

[calapine]

Did you hear they took the word gullible out of the dictionary.

No, it's still there. Right beside my picture!


I am totally aware the main message was "Do what I say." But I also think Tywin meant every word of it. It's not like he killed Joffrey, in which case, yes, it would be nothing but a threat. Honestly, what would YOU have said?

In general Tywin is one of the view people you can trust - as long as you are a Lannister. He wants the best for his family, the problem is just that Tyron, Cersei and Jamie have a different opinion on what's "best" for them.

[Ironwood]

I don't think he meant every word of it.  I think he thought it was 'true' but that's not really important to him.  He could have found 50 other reasons why the other Kings sucked (which would pretty much amount to 'they're not me').  The message was 'listen to me and trust me and those I tell you to and it'll all be ok because I'm awesome'.

I have some passing familiarity with that state of mind.

As to 'as long as you're a Lannister', this is the man that's FUCKED all 3 of those kids.  Jesus.  He doesn't wants what's 'best' for them he wants what HE wants for them.  Massive difference.  Sure, you might agree with him because you think he's right at times, but even when he's wrong he won't give a flying fuck about your agreement.

Again, it sounds familiar somehow.

[calapine]

I don't think he meant every word of it.  I think he thought it was 'true' but that's not really important to him.  He could have found 50 other reasons why the other Kings sucked (which would pretty much amount to 'they're not me').  The message was 'listen to me and trust me and those I tell you to and it'll all be ok because I'm awesome'.

I think we not actually disagreeing and just arguing semantics now. Yes he basically said "Do what I say because I am awesome and know best". But he is actually right about that. Who else should Tommy follow? Cersei, Littlefinger? Tywin is ruthless but not psychotic, managed to strengthen his house and grow to be an old man, without losing either his cock, arm or head. That's a lot better than other people I can think of.

As to 'as long as you're a Lannister', this is the man that's FUCKED all 3 of those kids.  Jesus.  He doesn't wants what's 'best' for them he wants what HE wants for them.  Massive difference.  Sure, you might agree with him because you think he's right at times, but even when he's wrong he won't give a flying fuck about your agreement.

Again, it sounds familiar somehow.

Children having different ideas about how things should be run than their parents from another generation. Doesn't sound especially uniquely Lannister. I think "You shut up, marry the person you are told and put your life subservient to family good" isn't really strange or evil for an medieval aristocracy. Still a luxurious life and better than being a serf on a farm.

Edit: Not I that I say Tyrion or Cersei are wrong in wanting to go their own way. I personally have no intention of ever meeting my own father again. Horrible person.

[Ironwood]

And now we're getting to the issue.  Tell me about your Mother.

[Ginaz]

I don't get why so many people are upset about the rapey scene.  Cersei is an evil, evil person who has done some really horrible things (remember she killed her husband???).  I'm A-Ok with bad things happening to bad people, men or women.  I think a lot of the hand wringing, esp. from women, is because they were getting attached to Jamie through his adventures with Brienne and the rapeyness of that scene shattered all their fantasies of him.

[Threash]

They are upset that it's being called consensual.

[Ginaz]

They are upset that it's being called consensual.

Really?  It clearly wasn't.  I don't know how anyone can say it was.

[Cyrrex]

Because it was portrayed that way in the book, and confirmed by the author.  That's the big mistake here.  Well that, and the fact that the director probably doesn't know what consensual sex is.

[Samwise]

Honestly watching that scene my take was that Cersei was putting on an act in order to manipulate Jamie with guilt later.  But that's what I automatically assume of Cersei in any situation -- any emotion she projects other than smug self-satisfaction is an act put on for the purpose of gaining power over someone or just fucking with them.  I didn't even believe her when she looked upset about Joffrey dying -- once she lost the ability to control him he wasn't useful to her any more.  She put on the bereaved mother act just so that she could fuck with Tyrion (who she hates because he's smarter than she is and therefore a threat).

Yeah, I don't have a high opinion of Cersei.   

[Setanta]

In general Tywin is one of the view people you can trust - as long as you are a Lannister. He wants the best for his family, the problem is just that Tyron, Cersei and Jamie have a different opinion on what's "best" for them.

Sure with your caveat - but this is the guy that came sniffing around at the end of the rebellion against the Targaryans and then was complicit in the killing of young children. Yet people kick up a fuss when Jamie tosses one kid off a tower. Tywin is ruthless and brutal and callous, something people forget outside of his dynastic manipulation of his children. Maybe the TV series didn't make as big a deal over his contempt for Tyrion, but it's hard to forget how he treated Tyrion's first wife (and whore).

I like the TV portrayal of him, but he's no better than the other characters in blurring the line between honour and barbarism.

[angry.bob]

You could do a lot worse than Tywin teaching you how to play politics. He's got his family on the throne and if anything happens to this kid they're off it. Let grandpa run stuff while you watch and learn.

[eldaec]

In general Tywin is one of the view people you can trust - as long as you are a Lannister. He wants the best for his family, the problem is just that Tyron, Cersei and Jamie have a different opinion on what's "best" for them.

Sure with your caveat - but this is the guy that came sniffing around at the end of the rebellion against the Targaryans and then was complicit in the killing of young children. Yet people kick up a fuss when Jamie tosses one kid off a tower. Tywin is ruthless and brutal and callous, something people forget outside of his dynastic manipulation of his children. Maybe the TV series didn't make as big a deal over his contempt for Tyrion, but it's hard to forget how he treated Tyrion's first wife (and whore).

I like the TV portrayal of him, but he's no better than the other characters in blurring the line between honour and barbarism.

Did you miss the scene where Tywin explained how he had wanted to drown Tyrion at birth and only the honour of the family name stopped him?

If anything I think TVTywin has been more contemptuous toward Tyrion than book Tywin. Though Charles Dance being awesome is part of that.

[calapine]

You could do a lot worse than Tywin teaching you how to play politics. He's got his family on the throne and if anything happens to this kid they're off it. Let grandpa run stuff while you watch and learn.

Exactly.  That was my point. Seems Bob and me are the only clear headed thinkers around here! 

[Threash]

And you know what? when the ice walkers and their zombie armies come marching down to roll over humanity i would want Tywin in charge of the defense.

[Ironwood]

You could do a lot worse than Tywin teaching you how to play politics. He's got his family on the throne and if anything happens to this kid they're off it. Let grandpa run stuff while you watch and learn.

Exactly.  That was my point. Seems Bob and me are the only clear headed thinkers around here! 

You realise the full implications of that, right ?  You're in perfect agreement... with Angry Bob.

[Khaldun]

I don't think you'd want Tywin in charge of the defenses. The guy does not think about the long game in the biggest sense. He thinks about how he and his house come out ahead in the next step. He'd make a great executive at Goldman-Sachs but not a great leader of the nation. If the White Walkers were closing on King's Landing, my assumption would be that he would be checking to see what of his house's wealth was mobile and would be preparing to ship across the Narrow Sea.

[Ceryse]

I don't think you'd want Tywin in charge of the defenses. The guy does not think about the long game in the biggest sense. He thinks about how he and his house come out ahead in the next step. He'd make a great executive at Goldman-Sachs but not a great leader of the nation. If the White Walkers were closing on King's Landing, my assumption would be that he would be checking to see what of his house's wealth was mobile and would be preparing to ship across the Narrow Sea.

Not just that, but he doesn't exactly have a sterling record as a commander on the battlefield, unless I'm forgetting something. Didn't Robb/The North basically school him routinely and only struggle to win due to the sheer issue of numbers on the Lannister side? Regardless, Tywin, while an interesting character, isn't someone I'd want to entrust my fate to.

[Threash]

I'm pretty sure the show just spoiled future book content.

[Chimpy]

I'm pretty sure the show just spoiled future book content.

Superman's fortress of solitude, medieval edition is going to be awesome!

[Rendakor]

Details please? I haven't been watching this season. Feel free to hide it in tags if necessary.

[Paelos]

I don't think you'd want Tywin in charge of the defenses. The guy does not think about the long game in the biggest sense. He thinks about how he and his house come out ahead in the next step. He'd make a great executive at Goldman-Sachs but not a great leader of the nation. If the White Walkers were closing on King's Landing, my assumption would be that he would be checking to see what of his house's wealth was mobile and would be preparing to ship across the Narrow Sea.

Yeah Tywin's not the guy you want in a crisis. He'll sell the country down the river so he can start over with his family on the other side of the seas.

The Lannister you want in a crisis is probably Tyrion.

[Threash]

Details please? I haven't been watching this season. Feel free to hide it in tags if necessary.

[Ingmar]

I don't think you'd want Tywin in charge of the defenses. The guy does not think about the long game in the biggest sense. He thinks about how he and his house come out ahead in the next step. He'd make a great executive at Goldman-Sachs but not a great leader of the nation. If the White Walkers were closing on King's Landing, my assumption would be that he would be checking to see what of his house's wealth was mobile and would be preparing to ship across the Narrow Sea.

Yeah Tywin's not the guy you want in a crisis. He'll sell the country down the river so he can start over with his family on the other side of the seas.

The Lannister you want in a crisis is probably Tyrion.

I was thinking if you had to go with one of the ostensibly bad guys, you could do a lot worse than Randyll Tarly.

[Threash]

I just figured some sort of medieval "Redeker plan" was going to be necessary and Tywin would be the only one ruthless enough to put something like that into effect.  But yeah, Randyll Tarly would do fine as a battlefield commander.

[Khaldun]

Good change to the Bran storyline.

And yeah, that was definitely more about

[MediumHigh]

Man the only thing I thought to myself when this episode started (past the learning how to read parts) was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I'm tempted to fast forward through all Dany parts.

[Rendakor]

Details please? I haven't been watching this season. Feel free to hide it in tags if necessary.

I thought that was pretty heavily implied.

[Samwise]

I dunno what the hell else you'd think they'd be doing with them.

[MediumHigh]

Details please? I haven't been watching this season. Feel free to hide it in tags if necessary.

I thought that was pretty heavily implied.

Always figured the num num was enough.

Hmmm unless I see a female white walker the white walkers are treading the fine line of bullshit fictional race. Unless they really don't kill indiscriminately but attempt to set up white walker cults and kill the non believers....

Bran story... ehhh.....

This whole plotline about casters place makes a little less sense. Our King Behind the Wall couldn't give 2 shits about Castor. Nor would he check up on a incest camp of rape and incest. He'd literally either destroy the place as a "fuck you for feeding the white walkers you fucks" or leave him alone. No reason to go checking up on the white walker loving camp of incest and rape unless your planning to firebomb the place, which would have happened by now... and Jon Snow should be smart enough to guess as much himself.... i mean fuck tv writers can you be more contrived with your contrived plotlines.

[eldaec]

Thinking about Jon's future arc, I like that they found an excuse to have him do something with a bunch of NW guys before the thing that happens and then the thing Sam does.

And protecting his secret that he has no guys on the Wall feels important. Plus his own experience suggests captured crows get interrogated about this shit.

[MediumHigh]

Thinking about Jon's future arc, I like that they found an excuse to have him do something with a bunch of NW guys before the thing that happens and then the thing Sam does.

And protecting his secret that he has no guys on the Wall feels important. Plus his own experience suggests captured crows get interrogated about this shit.

Except the only thing keeping Mance from rolling over the wall in the book was the fact that his troops were ill-disciplined. The most he could do is send them in the general direction of castle black and hope for the best. His best fighters were the scouts, who he kept as scouts for obvious reasons and they were "suppose" to hit castle black while everyone was relaxing all cool in the yard. TV show advance party seems to be content bringing attention to themselves raiding villages around Castle Black...something that would have easily forced the hand of several northern houses to react to immediately. While book advance party actually tried to do their job.

So while TV show caster mission feels important, it also feels both impractical and fillerish, like anime filler. The main issue is that Mance army is very far away and is literally running from the white walkers and an army of undead. It really doesn't who is guarding castle black at this moment.

[Velorath]

TV show advance party seems to be content bringing attention to themselves raiding villages around Castle Black...something that would have easily forced the hand of several northern houses to react to immediately. While book advance party actually tried to do their job.

The Northern houses are a bit fucked at the moment, what with Winterfell being burned down and all, the Greyjoy's occupying Deepwood Motte, and most of the Northern Lords having just fought on the losing side of a war.

[Setanta]

"Sansa's not a killer. Not yet anyway." Nice direction if indeed they are foreshadowing something that hasn't been written into the books (yet).

The interplay between Bronn and Jamie and then Jamie was good even if Jamie has gone from rapey-sister-fucker to likable Jamie again. It just reinforces to me that the directors fucked up last week's episode badly.

I really hope they cut the hell out of the Dany story - what they did with Pale Worm gave him more depth in one scene than I've seen from him in the series.

I'm really hoping they ditch the books soon and just keep the bare bones. Even so, I'm hoping that they let Tywin  (book spoiler).

[Khaldun]

I keep feeling pretty sure that we're