Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Mrbloodworth]

She wasn't raped (although that could have been a lot clearer) and she's not an Elf, if you want to make shit up at least make it funny.


I could have done without the sex scenes on TV but two of them were central to the story & the Tyrion one was a pretty accurate way to introduce him.

Maybe in the books.

[Ironwood]

I really don't give a crap, but I will say that the show I watched last night was quite clear that she was getting raped.

Hey, ho.

[Merusk]

I liked the dwarf.  He said 'bastard' a lot.  He could have been Scottish.

Tyrion is the best damn character in the books.  I'm going to be pissed when he gets killed.

[Nyght]

The books chapters sometimes end in mini-cliff hangers where the outcome later is somewhat different then you think is implied. They may be using that same mechanic. Or perhaps they are altering the story for the sake of brevity.  Guess we have to watch next week to find out.   

[Mrbloodworth]

I really don't give a crap, but I will say that the show I watched last night was quite clear that she was getting raped.

Hey, ho.

I don't ether. I just found it funny, I mostly agree with Tebonas at this point. They were trying REALLY hard to be edgy. This show has to go up against, The Pillars of the Earth, Deadwood, Carnivàle, Spartacus, and The Tudors.

Right now it feels like a low budget knock off of that style. But I have only seen the first episode.

[Arthur_Parker]

Whereas if you compare to the books and how they had altered the ages of the younger characters, they actually toned it down.  I'm pretty sure there's going to be lots of other things they tone down too.

[Draegan]

I read the first 3 books when the 3rd one was released, which apparently was in 2000.  In preperation for this show I started reading them again.

Let me tell you that the first book, for the first 300-400 pages is confusing as hell because they through out so many names and houses etc.  The show is pretty much following suit.  But there is such a payoff once you get your feet under you.

I thought the show was fantastic.

[Rasix]

It was OK for a pilot.  The show won't move that fast at first and it'll be confusing for a bit, because the books were exactly like that and they seem to be trying for as much fidelity as they could. I didn't really like the series for the first 400 pages if I'm recalling correctly.  Luckily for my wife, I could explain things to her or she would have been lost.  They definitely could have tried harder to introduce characters better, since you don't have pages of backstory to help you in the series.  Things should come together as they focus more on different characters.  If it doesn't, they'll have problems.

There were a few things they could have done better (like the marriage consumation), but overall I was generally pleased with the way they handled things.  As for charactrers.. uhh, I guess Jaime Lannister's hair could have been longer and the Hound could have been more crispy.  I always pictured Joffrey as Draco Malfoy, so he could have been taller.  Yah, pretty  much all "sharp knees" criticisms, so I can live with it.

They aren't trying to be edgy.  The books are just like that.  It's like calling Glen Cook's work morally ambiguous.  If they put the red wedding on screen, some of you are going to have a goddamned fit.

And Targaryens aren't elves.  They're just inbred to an extreme degree. Brother-fucking makes your kids look odd.

Tyrion was awesome.

[Ironwood]

Ooh, Glen Cook - What did he do ?

[Lucas]

HBO renews "Game of Thrones" for second season:

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/04/hbo-renews-game-of-thrones-for-second-season/ (lots of traffic at the moment)


The Pilot raked in 4.2 million viewers, apparently (not bad, considering there is still the "oh, it's that fantasy crap" mentality).

[Rasix]

Ooh, Glen Cook - What did he do ?

I threw that in just for you.    

[Ironwood]

Still haven't read them.

[Rasix]

I don't think you'd get past the first 60 pages.

[Bzalthek]

At some point you just have to give up the computer and go sit in your rocker on the porch screaming at the neighbors kids.

[Threash]

I think it's a pretty good sign that the complaints so far are basically exactly the same complaints you would have at this point in the books.  Also, they are not trying to be "edgy" to outdo the other shows, they actually toned it down from the books.

[lamaros]

She pretty much get raped in the books too. So if it come across as a rape (haven't seen the ep yet) it is a fairly accurate representation; if not fully expained in regards to subtlties.

Also it's pedophilia in the books? Young girl sold in to sexual slavery to Ghengis Khan is the gist of it.

[Ironwood]

Worrying for me tho.  It was tripe.

If it had been in book form I'd have put it down and not gone back.

[Threash]

She pretty much get raped in the books too. So if it come across as a rape (haven't seen the ep yet) it is a fairly accurate representation; if not fully expained in regards to subtlties.

Also it's pedophilia in the books? Young girl sold in to sexual slavery to Ghengis Khan is the gist of it.

No, in the books and throughout most of our history a 13 year old girl getting married off was perfectly acceptable.

[lamaros]

Worrying for me tho.  It was tripe.

If it had been in book form I'd have put it down and not gone back.

Hopefully they don't play too much of the adolescent pornographic elements of the book in the series (and there is a fair bit) as it is far and away the
Worst writing. There is a lot to enjoy otherwise, and I hope it translates.

The context of the book is not a 13 year old girl getting married in any normal sense, as you know.  Nor is the sex written as if it is not a coerced relationship in it's first instances. And as you well know, I am not talking about historical views, but those of contemporary viewers.

[Lucas]

Like Arthur Parker said, the books are...well, just what they are: what you are seeing now is what I consider a very well done translation of a 1996 book on the TV screen. Before Rome, Spartacus or whatever explicit stuff you've seen lately. So, in a way, I understand if you approach GoT with a more "jaded" mentality (hey, it's F13!!! :D)
---

Now, of course, if you are a ASOIAF neophyte, you are more interested in the "right here and now", you want to be engrossed week by week by the events of the current season. Me as a reader, if I turn back and look at the happenings of Book One, knowing what happens after it, I could almost say that the first book is just a big introduction, almost a "dull" one compared to later events, especially book three.

I don't know every single Fantasy Saga that came before 1996, and what approach each author took (from Tolkien-esque High Fantasy/Mythology to Gritty medieval), but it seems to me that Martin mastered the "historical fantasy" one. Fantasy around the edges, yes, but in a very recognizable and realistic world when it comes to clashes of power, much more akin to our own medieval times.

Again, yes, you will catch this peculiar aspect of the world only when Eddard Stark arrives in King's Landing, but even more so the next season (which got the green light, as written in a previous post).

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/04/19/game-of-thrones-premiere-ratings/

[Arthur_Parker]

She pretty much get raped in the books too.

No she doesn't, I actually quoted the passage from the book, I'd have quoted the full section but I felt odd c&p'ing something that's borderline erotic fiction.  She had the marriage forced on her but then Drogo immediately gives her the horse and she starts to feel a sense of freedom for the first time in her life, because her brother is an insane, cruel little bastard and she's free of him.

That's not to say that the scene in the tv show couldn't have been a lot better.

[Ironwood]

It did look like a nice horse.

[lamaros]

Rape is hyperbole, sure, but we're talking about a coerced (through marraige, gifts - general expectation) sexual relationship between a orphaned minor and a fully grown man from a rough masculine society that treats her as an object it isfair to say the sex would be rape-like. GRRMs adolescent guilt effacing 'yes' doesnt change that.

[Threash]

Dany was beaten, treated like an object and quite possibly molested by her brother.  Sure, she was forced to marry Drogo and was terrified of him, but it was because she thought he was just a bigger meaner Viserys.  It is really not that hard to imagine how she could be happy about it when she realized it was nowhere near as bad as she thought it would be and actually a lot better than what she had before.

[Nyght]

This is the kind of problems we get taking this to the screen. The back story was thoroughly under explained. The 'releasing the dragon' line meant nothing to the viewers.

[Teleku]

This thread is veering dangerously close to the "what actually constitutes rape" argument that went on in that spiderman thread.  Thats not a place we want to go back too.  

[Arthur_Parker]

Yeah, the SA non spoiler thread is a trainwreck.  I can see why people are getting the impression they did, maybe it was intentional as they had to make her older, I'm happy to drop it.

[Mrbloodworth]

She pretty much get raped in the books too.

No she doesn't, I actually quoted the passage from the book, I'd have quoted the full section but I felt odd c&p'ing something that's borderline erotic fiction.  She had the marriage forced on her but then Drogo immediately gives her the horse and she starts to feel a sense of freedom for the first time in her life, because her brother is an insane, cruel little bastard and she's free of him.

That's not to say that the scene in the tv show couldn't have been a lot better.

Did you just openly post a spoiler? 

[Rasix]

edit: I'll be nice.

  should cover it.

[Arthur_Parker]

Did you just openly post a spoiler?  

I thought you weren't going to be watching it?  And no, a summary of events from the book, but only up to the end of episode 1 isn't a spoiler.

If they put the red wedding on screen, some of you are going to have a goddamned fit.

I guess this is what I most hope happens as far as season renewals goes, if it ever makes it that far, that's going to be a television event.

[Mrbloodworth]

Did you just openly post a spoiler? 

I thought you weren't going to be watching it?  And no, a summary of events from the book, but only up to the end of episode 1 isn't a spoiler.

My comments were about the pilot. I will watch more if there is another way, I always give shows like this at least 3 episodes to find its footing. What you described, was nothing like the show ending. I did not see a "sense of freedom" in her eyes before the credits rolled.

What you typed did not come across in the show, thats why I thought it was a spoiler.

[Arthur_Parker]

As was said they didn't match the scene to the book very well, which shouldn't be taken as me saying that you are going to approve of episode 2 either 

[Lucas]

In case anyone is interested: the first 77 pages of the book, covering all you've seen in the pilot:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52871822/GAME-OF-THRONES-Exclusive-First-Episode-E-Book

Since the books are structured via POVs, now that you have seen the Pilot you can jump back and forth, for example checking out only the parts covering "Daenerys" events, or how Martin actually wrote the last scene concerning Bran (page 67 to 77).

EDIT: Sorry, regarding Dany, it's just the beginning.

[Threash]

This is the kind of problems we get taking this to the screen. The back story was thoroughly under explained. The 'releasing the dragon' line meant nothing to the viewers.

I think the fact that Viserys was a complete douche was pretty well covered.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, but the Doctor's gonna put him in a Scarecrow.