Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Merusk]

[MediumHigh]

So boring the only thing I remember is Ayra is going blind and than not being blind. Or something.

[MahrinSkel]

So boring the only thing I remember is Ayra is going blind and than not being blind. Or something.

Because Cat's second-person-passive narrative voice is a really crappy artsy-fartsy literary device that GRRM probably pulled just to see if his publishers would let him.  As long as they don't copy the stupidity by having Arya describe those events rather than just shooting them, they'll work fine on the screen.

--Dave

[Cyrrex]

I remember many times reading through these books, and maybe even more so in the last couple, where I thought to myself that Martin got lazy and skipped over the action scenes.  This included some of what was happening with Dany, some stuff with Jaime, and probably some stuff around the Wall.  He seems to dislike describing the actual battles and fight scenes, which is odd because I never got the impression that he was bad at it.  Maybe these books aren't supposed to be all about that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean he couldn't spice them up a little more.  And it certainly means that there are opportunities for the TV writers to make things more lively.  Much of the shit surrounding Dany and the Wall could be made fairly epic if they choose to condense it an liven it up.  They can do the same with Arya, too.

Oh, and nobody has said anything on the subject recently:  I love all the byplay with Ramsay and Reek, and now with daddy Bolton in the mix as well.  They guy playing Ramsay is so good at his job that I bet people give him a wide berth at the grocery store.

[Khaldun]

He's certainly ready to be the next person everyone agrees to hate. That whole plotline is a test of whether the producers can handle not just departing from the books, but going beyond what's been published so far--both that plot and Dany's plot will be up to Dance with Dragons more or less by the end of this season, maybe almost to the end of it, unless they plan

[MediumHigh]

[eldaec]

They won't have much trouble slowing Dany down to get her back in alignment with Kings Landing and the Wall by the end of the season. There is a fair amount to get through in other locations. Plus Theon's PoV is extra material. They could also add some extra Davos PoV content.

[Chimpy]

I just got caught up on this. I actually was impressed with how well the Joffrey wedding feast stuff came together. It fit pretty well with the tone of the book event.

One thing that I really think they fucked up was using Bronn instead of Illyn Payne for the "silent swordsman" thing. It isn't like Payne hasn't already been in the show either.

[jgsugden]

I just got caught up on this. I actually was impressed with how well the Joffrey wedding feast stuff came together. It fit pretty well with the tone of the book event.

One thing that I really think they fucked up was using Bronn instead of Illyn Payne for the "silent swordsman" thing. It isn't like Payne hasn't already been in the show either.

$ Blz ya'll.

It is cheaper to use Bronn, a regular, than to bring in Payne... and it works just about as well.  Plus, Bronn has a certain appeal to the audience so they've got to be looking for ways to show more of him.See below.

[proudft]

Payne's actor has terminal cancer and is doing his preferred music stuff in his remaining time (and I guess they decided it would be tacky to recast him).

[jgsugden]

Payne's actor has terminal cancer and is doing his preferred music stuff in his remaining time (and I guess they decided it would be tacky to recast him).

Didn't know.  Sad.

[Velorath]

Yeah, he just released an album with Roger Daltrey if I'm not mistaken. Lucky to actually live long enough to see it released since I think his initial prognosis didn't give him this long. Under the circumstances I thought it was a good idea to use a Bronn instead since I seem to recall him just kinda fading out of the books.

[eldaec]

Didn't know the real reason, but it occured to me that Bronn would probably be better than Payne for the feast riverlands story.

[Chimpy]

Ahh that makes some sense. It is just that Bronn is the least likely to keep his mouth shut of just about anyone.

[Lantyssa]

Pancreatic cancer at that.  Fuck that shit.

Bronn is a good choice because it means they can do banter and he does nothing of note in the forth and fifth books.  As for plot reasons, Bronn would only talk for gold, where Tyrion and Jaimie will pay the best gold.  Once Jaimie can use a sword again it won't matter anyways, so I think they're more worried about someone who won't go gossiping down at the tavern than him being paid off.

[Cyrrex]

I like the TV version of Bronn, so by all means use him as the stand-in for people that need to otherwise be cut out.  I had all but forgot about Payne until this thread brought it up, so it works.

[Threash]

Yeah, great change.  I was going to really miss Bronn otherwise.  He could easily take the role of Steelshanks during Jamies riverland adventures.

[MahrinSkel]

Bronn in the show has been less of a blatant opportunist than Bronn in the book, showing a subtext of actual respect and (for a sellsword) loyalty to Tyrion.  And having Bronn instead of Payne does allow them to show rather than tell, since much of the purpose of those scenes is Jaime trying to reconcile his internal conflicts which is hard to do on the screen without an actual dialogue.

--Dave

[Chimpy]

The loyalty is going to be thrown out the window soon enough unless they decided to totally write a certain someone out of the next important bit of the Tyrion storyline.

[Threash]

That had nothing to do with loyalty, the guy is just not stupid. 

[eldaec]

Have to agree. His loyalty is that of a employee and a friend, not a vassal. He does a couple of things later on that emphasise it.

[Rasix]

They really botched that Cersei-Jaime scene.  That makes the further actions with Jaime far less sympathetic and makes Cersei more so.  Ohh well. 

[Threash]

The director said in an interview that it was intended to be seen as consensual by the end of it.  If that was the case he failed miserably as a director because it looks like rape the whole way through.

[kaid]

That had nothing to do with loyalty, the guy is just not stupid. 

As a sellsword there comes a time when there is nothing more you can do and you just need to move along.

[kaid]

The director said in an interview that it was intended to be seen as consensual by the end of it.  If that was the case he failed miserably as a director because it looks like rape the whole way through.

Yes I thought I recalled from the book it was a mutal if sick thing but as shown it was about as rapey as you can get the entire way through.

[eldaec]

...and the rest of the episode was pretty lacklustre.

The stuff at the wall was good, they seem to be doing a better job of establishing Jon's development than the book did.

Also, Carcetti's accent appears to have become even more Irish. I think it was an improvement.

[WayAbvPar]

The actor is Irish (at least by birth), so he can probably do that accent credibly 

[Khaldun]

They definitely went full-rapey on that scene rather than mutual sick. It has an interesting impact on both characters. Cersei will probably look more like a victim when the time comes and Jaime's rehabilitation into complexity and sympathy just went completely south.

[MahrinSkel]

...and the rest of the episode was pretty lacklustre.

The stuff at the wall was good, they seem to be doing a better job of establishing Jon's development than the book did.

Also, Carcetti's accent appears to have become even more Irish. I think it was an improvement.

I think that they were trying to tell us that everything we've seen of Littlefinger up to now has been pretense, and now that he's won his game and is claiming the prize his courtly accent slips along with the mask of normality.  *This* gloating sociopath is the real person.

--Dave

[MediumHigh]

They really botched that Cersei-Jaime scene.  That makes the further actions with Jaime far less sympathetic and makes Cersei more so.  Ohh well. 

Yeah wanted to punch my computer. I have a feeling Cersei is going to be toned down once her time to shine is shown in full detail. Why are they uncomfortable showing how much of a crazy cunt she is is beyond me. And Jaime raping Cersei is sooo not what happened that I just think the writers went into full retard mode. I mean Jaime is above that shit even if he isn't against sister fucking and child murder.

[Setanta]

It's been a while but that was really a very mediocre episode in what has long been a well-developed interpretation of the books. All it needed was Bran doing more boring shit to flesh it out and it would have been utter crap. The writers need to go back and look at what made the rest of the series set the bar as apart from Tywin's lecture on what makes a good king the rest was pretty sub-par. Jamie's character took a step backwards in a Walking Dead kind of way (aka shit writing/change in direction).

It almost feels like they are about to lose their way - not surprising, the last 2 books were utter meandering rubbish especially as GRRM seems to have painted himself into a corner that he can't see his way clear of. Arya/Clegane need to go their separate ways (and I was really enjoying their storyline), Dany's story - bored the shit out of me in the books at this point in time (Andrea from WD anyone?) and needs a massive streamline because the writing's on the wall for her to become tedious if the books are followed... nah, I'll shut up, just a rant because this episode to me was just - disappointing.

[MediumHigh]

Btw the spoiler is how the actual scene is written in the book.

[eldaec]

They definitely went full-rapey on that scene rather than mutual sick. It has an interesting impact on both characters. Cersei will probably look more like a victim when the time comes and Jaime's rehabilitation into complexity and sympathy just went completely south.

I agree the scene was just bad. But they'll recover.

Jamie has a good opportunities to get back on track with Brienne and presumably Bronn,  plus most people are so desperate to see Cersei as a panto villain that I imagine they'll just pander to that with her.

Intrigued to see how they'll handle the Jamie/Tyrion stuff.

[Ironwood]

I actually think it probably has more to do with the Irish Film that Littlefinger has done in between scenes.  

It was very, very, very jarring.  If it was meant, fair enough.

Also, I haven't read the books and if that scene was meant to be consensual then, er, it kinda failed badly.  I mean, I get that she could have put a stop to it, but it also came across really, really, really rapey.


(But we can't do rape scenes in fantasy shows.  lol.)

[K9]

The context in the books is pretty different from the show. In the book Jamie isn't at the wedding and returns from captivity to be greeted Joffrey's corpse; in the show's he's already been kicking his heels around King's landing for a few weeks and months. So in the books Cersei is painted as completely lost and broken, and Jamie's return offers her some sense of stability and security. The show... well they just got the tone all wrong.