EU WAR - nail in the coffin ?

[khaine]

Caught this on the WAR Alliance forums , besides the fact they cannot even get the Realm War page up at all for the EU servers and players there's this nugget that just came out from the EU devs

Originally Posted by Julien Crevits
Character transfers will be available, and it is one of our highest priorities at the moment. Our account management system being different from Mythic’s, an adaptation and additional tests are necessary, but they should be available before the year’s end .


It's just now getting out , but from the overwhelming reaction of the EU players , even some of the most ardent defenders of the game stuck on dead servers have thrown up their hands in disgust

[Arthur_Parker]

It's GOA, they can't even do a decent webpage, they didn't have account management live for weeks so nobody could setup a recurring sub at game release.  This isn't really a big deal, before the end of the year is a positive thing, sure they are going to lose some players due to the population issues but server merges will only have a short term positive effect anyway.

[Ratama]

This isn't really a big deal, before the end of the year is a positive thing

...  Was that supposed to be green?

And this isn't a nail in the coffin; this is graffiti on the tombstone.

[Zzulo]

so glad I bought the american version

god damn why does GoA still exist

[Arthur_Parker]

This isn't really a big deal, before the end of the year is a positive thing

...  Was that supposed to be green?

And this isn't a nail in the coffin; this is graffiti on the tombstone.

Dry your eyes.

[GoodIdea]

EU can't do server transfers? That sucks. Server transfers have been very good for my server, the sudden infusion of players that actually want to play the game instead of whine has actually been great. Every night there is open rvr now.

[eldaec]

Gee.

I guess all those European players who were delighted that GOA got the contract, and who congratulated Mythic on an excellent decision with NO FORSEEABLE DOWNSIDE, and who have enjoyed fantastic service right through beta and launch will be really surprised by this.



OH WAIT.



Fake edit, because we don't bring this up often enough given how retarded it is:

nobody could setup a recurring sub at game release. 

I mean... fuck.

[Le0]

Gee.

I guess all those European players who were delighted that GOA got the contract, and who congratulated Mythic on an excellent decision with NO FORSEEABLE DOWNSIDE, and who have enjoyed fantastic service right through beta and launch will be really surprised by this.



OH WAIT.



Fake edit, because we don't bring this up often enough given how retarded it is:

nobody could setup a recurring sub at game release. 

I mean... fuck.

Don't know if you are playing the same game as me but I never saw anyone say they are deligthed to see GOA get the contract. The closest I've read to that was people, giving another chance to GOA after their DAOC-FAIL fest.

[Fordel]

 

[Sophismata]

To be completely fair, it can be hard to convey sarcasm with text.

Of course, to be even more fair, common sense would have been all it took for that one.

[Rondaror]

Post from MJ on WHA May 2007........


Folks,

Our position on this question remains the same as it has ever been:

1) French Telecom (GOA) is our partner in Europe. Over the years they have been a good and true partner but, like Mythic, one that has made its share of mistakes. They are committed to WAR to an even greater degree than with DAoC due to their faith in the game and their long experience with Mythic. They have agreed to maintain a level of quality, in all aspects of their end of our partnership that meets or exceeds that of Mythic. We have no doubt, based on what we have seen so far, that they intend to honor and exceed that commitment. Like any commitment, if they fail to live up to our expectations or we fail to live up to our promises, I expect that adjustments will be made. The nice thing about being a game slated for 2008, as opposed to 2001, is that all sides recognize the true potential of WAR and of the size MMORPG market......
.....
In the end what's most important to Mythic is that GOA does a great job with hosting and managing WAR's European community. Prior to WoW's launch, for many years that they have been our partners the European community, DAoC was the #1 subscription-based MMORPG in Europe. They helped establish a large community and have, like Mythic, learned a lot over those years. These lessons we believe will allow them to continue to be a great partner for us. As I've said, their level of commitment to WAR is fabulous and I truly do expect great things from them over the next decade or so.

Mark

__________

Great job GOA...as usual......

[Sophismata]

He likes the word 'fabulous', doesn't he?

[eldaec]

Who doesn't?

[rk47]

I just he stop using the word 'Folks,'
it sounds awkward.

[schild]

I'd prefer he use "My Countrymen."

[Arthur_Parker]

nobody could setup a recurring sub at game release. 

I mean... fuck.

They fixed that yesterday, if we assume Europe had roughly 400,000 subscribers, with Mark Jacobs saying subscription update was about 75%.  Then we get at least 100,000 people who intended to cancel their subscription in Europe, the only way of doing that was checking your subscription billing was set to the manual opt in each month option.  GOA has now enabled recurring subscription (apparently as the default option) a few days before the next billing cycle.  Everyone who thought they had cancelled their subscription in Europe should check they are not now set to unlimited recurring billing, I know I was.  There's no way I can find to delete or change your credit card details in the account pages either.

Just taking next month as an example, the total in pure profit from this change for GOA/Mythic is very roughly (depending on how many credit cards they had registered and how many accounts they did this on) $1,500,000.  There's still no way of getting a cancel confirmation, they changed my account from manual billing to recurring yesterday and sent me an email that wasn't crystal clear.  I don't often check that email account but now I'll be checking my WAR account daily to see if they turn my subscription back on again, in the meantime I've requested an email confirming my intention to cancel.

[Lantyssa]

Pretty slick.  It'll boost the subscription numbers for another month while they try to finagle investors.

[Arthur_Parker]

Oh and one more thing, yesterday is also the day they decided to lock the GOA update thread on warhammer alliance.

I was going to query GOA in public on yesterday's subscription billing changes on the only thread they were consistently monitoring.  Looks like purely by some strange coincidence that option is no longer available.

R.I.P
This post is no longer updated.

I hope many of you have found the information in this post useful. I've learned lots from maintaining it but right now I don't think there is a need for a general thread such as this. Instead, I'll focus on being more present on a greater variety of forums together with Nic. That said, maintaining and updating a post like this is an effective means of sharing certain types of information and should the need arise, we'll create new but probably more focused information posts.

Last edited by Magnus_GOA; Yesterday at 06:20 PM.

[Trippy]

Just what EA needs -- another class action lawsuit

[Arthur_Parker]

Andy from Mythic replied to a vn thread saying the issue had been forwarded to GOA.

GOA response

Good day!
Hope you're all having a good weekend! I'll address three of the issues brought up here.

Subscription issue
The current issue with subscriptions is as follows; players who had cancelled their accounts or who had not previously signed up for automatic subscription have had their accounts signed up for automatic renewal without their consent. This is obviously a mistake, and a serious one at that which we are investigating with urgency. I don't know how many are affected by this and I don't know if anyone has actually been charged erroneously but I hope to return with a more substantiated update on this tomorrow. For now, we offer our sincere apologies to anyone who affected by this and further advice players to log in with their account on war-europe and make sure it's set up correctly.


Server stability
There's recently been incidents where zones have crashed, resulting in broken or reset campaigns. This is naturally disheartening to those who fought to advance the campaign on their server and we're doing what we can to help out. Currently, this means that we can reset broken campaigns which from the perspective of players involved in these sieges understandably isn't enough. We're sending feedback to Mythic on these issues and we're working together to prevent crashes like these to occur in the first place, as well as to improve our responses to them.

However, in all fairness, our servers are performing pretty well overall; there are few crashes and when they occur they're resolved swiftly. It's in those rare cases where a crash strike in an untimely way and they affect the status of a campaign on a server which we need to meet more appropriate. We're determined to get there, we're working more and more like a unit and with the assistance and additional tools from Mythic, we'll get there.


Character transfers
European character transfers are on the way and will be implemented in the middle of next week. The receiving servers will be given a universal 20% exp and renown bonus for some time to help newcomers feel more welcome and we're hoping to see the RvR lakes sprawling with life after these transfers.

Again, apologies to those who had the status of their subscription changed erroneously; we’re on it and we’ll make it right.


Cheers,
Magnus

[Arthur_Parker]

in the meantime I've requested an email confirming my intention to cancel.

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting us in relation to your query.

I can confirm that your account will no longer be billed after your current subscription period expires on 25/11/08.The account itself stays on our systems for a period of 6 months to allow our players the oppertunity to resume playing in the future without loosing their saved progress.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further questions or queries.

Regards,
-----------------------------------------------
Warhammer Online European Billing Support

Heh. They are going to delete accounts after 6 months?  Normally I'd think it's a bluff, but GOA.

[Driakos]

Loosing.    Oppertunity.   

[palmer_eldritch]

in the meantime I've requested an email confirming my intention to cancel.

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting us in relation to your query.

I can confirm that your account will no longer be billed after your current subscription period expires on 25/11/08.The account itself stays on our systems for a period of 6 months to allow our players the oppertunity to resume playing in the future without loosing their saved progress.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further questions or queries.

Regards,
-----------------------------------------------
Warhammer Online European Billing Support

Heh. They are going to delete accounts after 6 months?  Normally I'd think it's a bluff, but GOA.

UO, WoW, Eve, EQ, EQ2 - five games I've gone back to after a break of more than six months and given them a few months more of my cash. Wouldn't have considered it if they'd deleted my characters.

Actually, if they delete the *account*, does that mean you can't come back at all, unless you buy a new box?

Idiots.

Incidentally, I was playing today and enjoyed myself a lot doing scenarios and defending a keep. I can easily see myself getting bored and quitting, and deciding to fire it back up one day for some capture the flag fun.

[Rondaror]

I remember that there was a similar statement in DAoC as well (could have been 12 months though). But they never deleted any accounts/characters. I returend to DAoC 2 years after my cancellation and all chars were still there.

[eldaec]

Not just daoc, every game everywhere uses that exact message, though usually in smaller print.

I'm all on board with the GOA hate, but you're trying too hard.

[Arthur_Parker]

Subscription issue
The current issue with subscriptions is as follows; players who had cancelled their accounts or who had not previously signed up for automatic subscription have had their accounts signed up for automatic renewal without their consent. This is obviously a mistake, and a serious one at that which we are investigating with urgency. I don't know how many are affected by this and I don't know if anyone has actually been charged erroneously but I hope to return with a more substantiated update on this tomorrow. For now, we offer our sincere apologies to anyone who affected by this and further advice players to log in with their account on war-europe and make sure it's set up correctly.

Remember that?  Absolute silence on the issue since. 

I'm thinking either
1. Magnus knew it wasn't a mistake and just replied to kill the story
Or
2. Magnus gets into the office and someone says "We don't setup recurring credit card billing for 100,000 people by mistake you idiot, now shut up".

[eldaec]

Subscription issue
The current issue with subscriptions is as follows; players who had cancelled their accounts or who had not previously signed up for automatic subscription have had their accounts signed up for automatic renewal without their consent. This is obviously a mistake crime, and a serious one at that which we are investigating with urgency. I don't know how many are affected much has been stolen by this and I don't know if anyone has actually been charged erroneously fraudulently but I hope to return with a more substantiated update on this tomorrow. For now, we offer our sincere apologies to anyone who affected by this and further advice advise players to log in with their account on war-europe and make sure it's set up correctly.

Fixed for GOA.

[Arthur_Parker]

Incoming!

Good day!
Hope you're all having a good weekend! I'll address three of the issues brought up here.

Subscription issue
The current issue with subscriptions is as follows; players who had cancelled their accounts or who had not previously signed up for automatic subscription have had their accounts signed up for automatic renewal without their consent. This is obviously a mistake, and a serious one at that which we are investigating with urgency. I don't know how many are affected by this and I don't know if anyone has actually been charged erroneously but I hope to return with a more substantiated update on this tomorrow. For now, we offer our sincere apologies to anyone who affected by this and further advice players to log in with their account on war-europe and make sure it's set up correctly.

If this is a mistake why Have I had 2 reply emails from GOA refusing a refund? The 1st one looked like this,

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting us in relation to your issue.

The subscription automatic renewal function was made active on all accounts on the 14th of November on which date an e-mail was sent to you informing you of this action.

This action was taken to improve our subscription service as you will not have to renew your subscription period manually.

You will now be able to avoid disruption to your game access between subscription periods.
While we apologise there may be some confusion around the implementation of this policy this was a necessary action to improve our service to you.

This policy can be found in the 2nd article of our General terms of Subscription which has been included since the release of WAR which states:

Section 2

“For payment through the banking system, your subscription will be renewed automatically starting on the anniversary date of your subscription period for durations identical to the subscription duration that you chose.”

Additional information can be also read here:

http://www.war-europe.com/#/news/?id_news=fr249&lang=en


Also we are unfortunately unable to process your refund request as your subscription period has already started.

Section 6

“Each subscription period that has begun will be billed and non-refundable, whether in full or in part. Similarly, failure to use your subscription during a subscription period does not give you the right to any refund.”

In addition to this, the e-mail sent to you informing you of the automatic renewal update was sent in order to give you adequate time in order to cancel your subscription if necessary.


In order to cancel your next automatic renewal please log into your account at www.war-europe.com


And the 2nd like this,

Dear Customer,

As per our previous mail we are unable to offer any refunds.

After our investigation we are also able to confirm that all our customers with active accounts on 14th of November were informed about this change through our mailing system.

Kind Regards,

2nd one

This is absolutely outrageous!
I have been charged 13 euros from my credit card for a next month subscription, despite the fact that i have ON PURPOSE canceled my account and checked several times that automatic subscription is not activated.
I am from europe and since the **** GOA their don't have official forum i came to write here.
I can't belive a serious company can have so buggy software. How can i trust them to operate with my CC data at all when they can't ******** do the right thing with their charge form.
Haven't logged in the game for a week, didn't wat to resubscribe and now they just charged my without me wanting that.
If this is a problem with GOA - Mythic - i don't care fix it, talk to them, do whatever you want, this is unacceptable, you have to refund me.
And that directly pu the last nail on it, i planned on checking the game back in couple of months, but now i do not wanna even hear about Mythic, GOA, EA or any of this ****.
If i have to i will go to the bank and tell them to block any attempts from the ****** from GOA to charge my CC.
I played many MMORPGS but never ever had such a profanic problem with any of them.

Edit.  Now getting this on the 2nd link, looks like vn pulled it instead of locking as normal.  You do not have permission to access the page http://vnboards.ign.com/warhammer_online_age_of_reckoning_general_board/b22997/109504241/p1

[Hindenburg]

I'd understand if a company did something like that in the United States, where they have horrible consumer rights, but in Europe?  That mail they sent will do nothing for their protection and they damn well know it.

[Sophismata]

Wow.

Class Action?

[Bismallah]

Yeah, that whole thing had baaaad written all over it when Arthur first posted here about his re-sub when he suspended the account. I knew it was gonna get messy.

[UnSub]

Wow.

Class Action?

It could be that every different country that has a consumer protection / credit card protection in Europe could be knocking on GOA's door if enough people complain.

[Lantyssa]

If enough complain?  This wouldn't fly even in the US.

[Just Testing]

Certainly in the UK, there does not seem to be protection against this type of business practice.
GOA is not alone in this kind of conduct. Microsoft is possibly the easiest example to point to - easy to sign up to online services, but impossible to cancel without making a phone call to the United States.  (See One Care) as an example of this type of practice.

Anyone paying by credit or debit card seems to have little option except to dispute the payment with their card provider, put up with the inconvenience of having no plastic for 5-8 working days, fill in a dispute form, and sucking their thumb for a couple of weeks while the request works its way through the system.  For 15 euros.

I think it is likely many will sit on their hands for a few weeks, accept the loss as being better than the hassle of reclaim. 
Good short term profit for GOA - paying customers that don't use the service. 

However, it takes a special kind of muppet not to understand that this will affect the games longevity and profitability.  The forum hate is not overdone in this instance.

[Arthur_Parker]

Linky

More email exchanges with GOA on my side...

-----

Dear Customer,

After reading through the forum thread we wish to advise that there is no error on your account.

As previously stated in our mails and highlighted in the News Section from 17th of November on war-europe.com, switching on automatic renewal for all accounts active on the 14th of November was intentional and we proceeded according to our stated policy.

Please keep an eye on the News Section and FAQ for any further updates about Warhammer Online features.

------

 

So I guess Magnus from GOA was 'speaking out of line when he said'

this is a confirmed issue and it's been escalated to the teams involved who will investigate and deal with this urgently. For now, if you've cancelled your account subscription please log in and make sure it's the case. If it's been reactivated without your consent, do cancel it again. More information will be available on this tomorrow.

Apologies for anyone who's affected by this.
-Magnus

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2678445#post2678445

----------------------

By the way, theres a whole thread on this over at Alliance... basically, people have to take it up with their CC company or bank

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194660

Scott

My gripe with this was the fact that I never entered my billing info for this game.  Never got an email about their billing changes.  Didn't intend on playing past the 1 free month so never thought twice about it.  I did however, play DAOC which had my billing info.  They used my billing info from an older subscription to charge me for this game.

I found that pretty underhanded, I had canceled DAOC and never thought they would take that old information and use it to bill me for a completely different title.  I can't comment on the other situation.