Guitar Hero World Tour

[Hawkbit]

Sooo... I'm a cheapass with GH3 and two of the GH3 controllers for the Wii. 

Anyone else playing the Wii version and would like to comment on this version?  IGN told Wii users to skip the drumset and wait for a third party set.  If I get the game only, am I doing it wrong (entirely)?

[Samwise]

Q: What is alt strumming?
A: Alt strumming(or double strumming) is when you grab the strum bar with two fingers and jiggle it up and down. You can increase your speed at alt strumming by holding only the end of the bar and making small movements rather than large ones.

Is it actually possible to alt strum quickly with the RB2 guitar?  I didn't notice any difference between it and the old guitar in that area, and the old guitar is absolute balls for alt strumming because you have to move the bar all the way from one side to the other to register a strum (as opposed to doing a "quick picking" movement over the middle).

[Cory Jacobs]

Is it actually possible to alt strum quickly with the RB2 guitar?  I didn't notice any difference between it and the old guitar in that area, and the old guitar is absolute balls for alt strumming because you have to move the bar all the way from one side to the other to register a strum (as opposed to doing a "quick picking" movement over the middle).

The new RB guitar makes it a little easier to alt strum, but it doesn't make it any more fun. It's still just a grind to get through the songs.

[Stephen Zepp]

Ok, band got together tonight, so we played through two full sets of GH:WT in addition to our couple of hours in RB2. Here were our general thoughts:

--GH:WT's tracks are easier to play--not because of "better" or "worse" charting, but because it's simply more forgiving..for everything but singing, which they seem to have reversed. Our singer normally nails songs on expert (she FC's much more than the rest of us on the easier songs, and is rarely below 85% on -any- song), but she can barely pass quite a few tracks in GH:WT on hard.

--we all bitched a lot about the song selection interface, but ultimately the current "exclusives" (no solid word on if it's just timing, or really exclusives) make it barely worth the negatives. We'll probably continue to do about 2-3 hours of RB, and finish up with a set or two of GH:WT.

--having the greatly enhanced stats was really nice, but again, the interface is just so damn ugly we don't spend much time looking at them.

--the cheat that is supposed to allow you to always use the touch bar doesn't seem to work at all, or at least didn't work the way we expected.

--I had a minor complaint that the charts seem to have a bit of perspective shift--kind of like a visual red shift. It was hard to visually tell the tempo changes and triplets/doubles/triplet change ups visually when they were far up the chart bar, but they "spread out" enough as they approached the hit bar to be able to see them at that point. Again, a minor complaint, but made sight reading harder.

Overall, for us at least, nothing about the experience was compelling at all (other than the songs). The only reason we'll keep playing it is because of the songs we can't play on RB2. I sincerely wish this wasn't the case personally, because I do like some of the features of GH:WT's actual song play, and I especially like that it's more forgiving.

[Cory Jacobs]

Yeah, that whole forgiving thing goes right out the fucking window when you play through it solo.... we demolished the whole game with the band. But as we figured out, its much easier with virtually unlimited star power!

[Stephen Zepp]

We care about getting together weekly and jamming together, making good music. The GH:WT interface simply does not allow us to enjoy playing in this manner for multiple hours, while the RB2 interface not only doesn't get in our way, but it assists us in several areas.

Um, doesn't GH:WT have an option or method by which you actually CAN "make music", though?  I mean, as opposed to playing simon says on the controllers.  (Which I'm all for, I love Rock Band)

Not really sure how to describe what I mean to be honest: "playing songs we know and love without actually having the skills to play them with real instruments" is what I was trying to get at ;)

We aren't looking for game mechanics that artificially increase difficulty (I'm looking at you, fretboard shake on missed notes)--we aren't interested in boss battles, or super-powers thrown at opponents. We just like jamming as a group.

[Special J]

Most non-guitar players only strum downwards, but when they reach long sections of chords or notes at an even rhythm it's only natural to go into alt strumming.  Interpol's PDA is a pretty extreme example of this since the whole is basically at the same rhythm, while Alabama Getaway's rhythm varies so it makes it harder to alt strum (for the non-guitar inclined).  GH contains more songs of the latter while RB contains more songs of the former.

That's my biggest complaint about Rock Band 2.  Too damn many of those.  I fucking despise "Are You Ready to Rock?" for that reason.  My hand gets tired just doing downstrums and I can't time the alt strumming worth a shit.

My GH3 guitar is pissing me off with the detachable neck, the green button keeps screwing up.  Is the new one any better?  If so, I'll probably get the guitar bundle.  I can't shell out for another toy drum kit.

Since I'm on the drum subject.  I've heard the RB drums work; but how do they deal one fewer pad?

[Stephen Zepp]

Most non-guitar players only strum downwards, but when they reach long sections of chords or notes at an even rhythm it's only natural to go into alt strumming.  Interpol's PDA is a pretty extreme example of this since the whole is basically at the same rhythm, while Alabama Getaway's rhythm varies so it makes it harder to alt strum (for the non-guitar inclined).  GH contains more songs of the latter while RB contains more songs of the former.

That's my biggest complaint about Rock Band 2.  Too damn many of those.  I fucking despise "Are You Ready to Rock?" for that reason.  My hand gets tired just doing downstrums and I can't time the alt strumming worth a shit.

My GH3 guitar is pissing me off with the detachable neck, the green button keeps screwing up.  Is the new one any better?  If so, I'll probably get the guitar bundle.  I can't shell out for another toy drum kit.

Since I'm on the drum subject.  I've heard the RB drums work; but how do they deal one fewer pad?

It took me a long time to get alt-strumming down well. One of the techniques I used in RB 2 (doesn't work perfectly in GH) is to watch the fret bar carefully before the song starts and get the timing in my head by counting it out.

If you watch carefully, you'll see that the primary meter is displayed on the fret bar as bright solid white lines, while the up beats are also displayed, but with dimmer, grey-ish lines. If you count out the meter of the song for a couple of phrases, using numbers for the primary meter and the word "and" for the up beats, it becomes a lot easier to know when to up strum.

It kind of sounds like this "ONE and TWO and THREE and FOUR and". Normally, I just go "ONE and TWO and ONE and TWO".

How does this relate to up/alt strumming? Once you get the meter locked down, 90% of your up strums will be on the "and". If a note is on the primary meter, strum down--if it's on the up beat, strum up.

Pretty much every song I've played works out this way, although there are transitions that can get you off beat, and triplets work a different way (requiring you to change your actual strum speed for each triplet).

[schild]

Problem with alt-strumming, hop back to an older version and practice on that foo-fighters track or misirlou.

[Ookii]

My GH3 guitar is pissing me off with the detachable neck, the green button keeps screwing up.  Is the new one any better?

It's so fantastic it can't be described in words.  It's really a joy to play.

Regular alt-strumming isn't that hard, strum down AND THEN up at the same speed your normally just strum down.  Problem solved.

[schild]

My GH3 guitar is pissing me off with the detachable neck, the green button keeps screwing up.  Is the new one any better?

It's so fantastic it can't be described in words.  It's really a joy to play.

Regular alt-strumming isn't that hard, strum down AND THEN up at the same speed your normally just strum down.  Problem solved.

lol, I remember you starting out playing Guitar Hero, and myself. Alt-strumming isn't as easy as you put it.

[Special J]

Regular alt-strumming isn't that hard, strum down AND THEN up at the same speed your normally just strum down.  Problem solved.

Well yeah, that makes sense to me too, but I'm finding it harder than it sounds.

Thanks for the tips guys, I'll try some of that stuff out.

[Stephen Zepp]

My GH3 guitar is pissing me off with the detachable neck, the green button keeps screwing up.  Is the new one any better?

It's so fantastic it can't be described in words.  It's really a joy to play.

Regular alt-strumming isn't that hard, strum down AND THEN up at the same speed your normally just strum down.  Problem solved.

I think this is a terminology issue, but the way I personally defined alt-strumming, playing the same riff with simply down strums requires twice as many strums as playing that riff with down and up strums, doesn't it?

What converted me over to alt-strumming was not being able to physically move my hand fast enough to play 120 strums/minute tempo riffs, but adding in the "1 AND" down/up strum pair cut my total strum speed to 60 downstrums per minute (plus of course the 60 up strums per minute).

[Cory Jacobs]

<- still can only down strum...     which is why ill never overcome the horror that is Muse Assassin.

EDIT: Ookii just owned Muse in the face with his impressive alt strumming.

[Xilren's Twin]

As fate would have it, picked this up this week and have yet to play it because of the red ring o' death.  You know this game has to be bad if your Xbox committs suicide so it wont have to play it...

The new guitar looks nice though 

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Man all this talk about Alt strumming is funny. I think that guitar tabs are pretty decent on both. They are more accurate to guitar on RB but funner to play on a plastic guitar on GH. The drums W/ the madcatz cymbals kicks the hell out of the GH drum stuff though. Seriously, RB drums + cymbals is mean. I play mostly drums now cause guitar is boring since I have been playing lots of real guitar recently, the drumming on RB/.GH is just funner than the guitar stuff to me.

OOki / Cory: Man we need to get together and play man, i miss you guys! Seriously, set a date man!

[Azazel]

So...

Short version. GHWT instruments or RB1 Instruments? (RB1 about to be released in Australia, no sign of RB2 of course).

I'm gonna buy one of the sets, not sure which, but within a week. Possibly today. I'll buy the standalone game for the other.

leaning towards GHWT since the instruments (on 360) are supposed to be cross-compatable?

[Ookii]

I will say again, the GH:WT guitar is the best guitar controller available period.

[Azazel]

Hm, ok. The RB full set is AU$70 cheaper than the GHWT one, but if only the GHWT set will work on both... Well I have a week to work out that purchase at least.

[Stephen Zepp]

I will say again, the GH:WT guitar is the best guitar controller available period.

And I will say again that many disagree with you--it's personal opinion!

Hell, I play regularly with a guy that uses a real guitar pick on the RB 2 guitar, and absolutely loves it. To each his own.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Using real guitar picks on RB or GH guitars is stupid. 

Geeze.....

[Stephen Zepp]

Using real guitar picks on RB or GH guitars is stupid. 

Geeze.....

Blew me away when I heard him say, "hey, where's my pick?" and I figured out what he was talking about. Works for him though!

[Jain Zar]

Just maybe play the strum bar like a pick?  Its designed that way.

Hell, the suck ass RB guitar seems INTENDED to be played pick style.

[Samwise]

Yeah, the strum bar (on all the RB and GH guitars) is built to be held like a pick.  Using a separate pick on it is pretty bizarre.  Is he able to play fast songs that way?

[schild]

Using real guitar picks on RB or GH guitars is stupid. 

Geeze.....

Blew me away when I heard him say, "hey, where's my pick?" and I figured out what he was talking about. Works for him though!

He's not very good, is he?

[Ookii]

Honestly, anyone who prefers the RB guitars over the GH guitars of any generation (except maybe the Xplorer) doesn't really play the game at a high level.  There's no way you're hitting those long tricky solos on a RB guitar.  This is especially true if you want to buy both RB and GH and use just one set of instruments, you will get nowhere using the RB guitar on GH.

But then again if you dig medium everything will be jazzy anyway you slice it.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Man I have to say that I would pick any GH guitar over any of the sucky RB controllers. I like the RB drums, but the guitar is not very good. I played a little of the new one and it was still too much like the old one. The new GH controller though, is really good.

On another note,

Schild & Ooki: Man the guitar stuff on AC/DC RB2 is just crazy fun. Really well tabbed.

[Stephen Zepp]

Honestly, anyone who prefers the RB guitars over the GH guitars of any generation (except maybe the Xplorer) doesn't really play the game at a high level.  There's no way you're hitting those long tricky solos on a RB guitar.  This is especially true if you want to buy both RB and GH and use just one set of instruments, you will get nowhere using the RB guitar on GH.

But then again if you dig medium everything will be jazzy anyway you slice it.

e-peen arrogance at it's best. You and your friends can't do it, so no one can, right?

I didn't see any of the top 4 RockBand bands (from the leaderboards for RB 1) on the SpikeTV launch party using GH guitars, so they must not be competitive I guess.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Honestly, anyone who prefers the RB guitars over the GH guitars of any generation (except maybe the Xplorer) doesn't really play the game at a high level.  There's no way you're hitting those long tricky solos on a RB guitar.  This is especially true if you want to buy both RB and GH and use just one set of instruments, you will get nowhere using the RB guitar on GH.

But then again if you dig medium everything will be jazzy anyway you slice it.

e-peen arrogance at it's best. You and your friends can't do it, so no one can, right?

I didn't see any of the top 4 RockBand bands (from the leaderboards for RB 1) on the SpikeTV launch party using GH guitars, so they must not be competitive I guess.

Seriously, that was a silly comment. No on that show will use stuff from GH. The show is sponsored by EA/HMX get the hell out of here with that lame poop. That show is absolute trash as it is. I know people personally that would thrash those chumps at all their virtual instruments individually.

Seriously, the RB guitar is trash. It is designed for having fun, playing some RB Etc... GH controllers are made by one of the the best peripheral companies with an emphasis on reliability for competitive use. For the longest time the best DDR mats were made and are still considered to be the RO mats. Almost all the highest quality Bemani peripherals were made by Red Octane.

You can BS about preference and all that silly crap, but that is all it is preference. Most of the high score RB/GH stuff is done on GH3 controllers or old SG's.

[Ookii]

Honestly, anyone who prefers the RB guitars over the GH guitars of any generation (except maybe the Xplorer) doesn't really play the game at a high level.  There's no way you're hitting those long tricky solos on a RB guitar.  This is especially true if you want to buy both RB and GH and use just one set of instruments, you will get nowhere using the RB guitar on GH.

But then again if you dig medium everything will be jazzy anyway you slice it.

e-peen arrogance at it's best. You and your friends can't do it, so no one can, right?

I didn't see any of the top 4 RockBand bands (from the leaderboards for RB 1) on the SpikeTV launch party using GH guitars, so they must not be competitive I guess.

I'm not one of the typical users on here who thinks that my every whim and opinion is gospel, but this point I really have to drive into the ground.  It isn't a matter of opinion, it isn't subjective.  The RB guitar just isn't as good as the GH guitar and due to its design it can never be utilized as well as the GH guitar when playing either game.

Like I said though, if you start out at the ground floor and judge them both you might go with the RB guitar, but I am telling you it will become readily apparent that the RB guitar just isn't up to snuff.

[Stephen Zepp]

Honestly, anyone who prefers the RB guitars over the GH guitars of any generation (except maybe the Xplorer) doesn't really play the game at a high level.  There's no way you're hitting those long tricky solos on a RB guitar.  This is especially true if you want to buy both RB and GH and use just one set of instruments, you will get nowhere using the RB guitar on GH.

But then again if you dig medium everything will be jazzy anyway you slice it.

e-peen arrogance at it's best. You and your friends can't do it, so no one can, right?

I didn't see any of the top 4 RockBand bands (from the leaderboards for RB 1) on the SpikeTV launch party using GH guitars, so they must not be competitive I guess.

I'm not one of the typical users on here who thinks that my every whim and opinion is gospel, but this point I really have to drive into the ground.  It isn't a matter of opinion, it isn't subjective.  The RB guitar just isn't as good as the GH guitar and due to its design it can never be utilized as well as the GH guitar when playing either game.

Like I said though, if you start out at the ground floor and judge them both you might go with the RB guitar, but I am telling you it will become readily apparent that the RB guitar just isn't up to snuff.

What exactly is your standard then for "up to snuff"? I think this is where we disagree, because there isn't anything you can do with the GH guitar that you can' do with the RB guitar--clickiness and throw distance of the strum bar is simply a matter of preference, not a blocker to performing any song in the game.

One of the "better RB guitarists swears by the GH guitar, and plays songs very well on expert--but I just found out recently that he doesn't know how to alt-strum, so even on the 240 beat per minute songs, he's only downstrumming (he beats the strum bar with his thumb). For his playstyle, of course he prefers the GH strum bar, because he is failing to use the guitar itself to it's full potential (either one). The tiny throw distance is mandatory for him, but I can do just as well strumming wise as he on an RB guitar with literally 1/2 the effort.

[Hutch]

NSFW: Heidi Klum likes to play GH:WT

[schild]

They've had a series of those commercials. I love them.

Funny they didn't pick a song on GHWT though.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Honestly, anyone who prefers the RB guitars over the GH guitars of any generation (except maybe the Xplorer) doesn't really play the game at a high level.  There's no way you're hitting those long tricky solos on a RB guitar.  This is especially true if you want to buy both RB and GH and use just one set of instruments, you will get nowhere using the RB guitar on GH.

But then again if you dig medium everything will be jazzy anyway you slice it.

e-peen arrogance at it's best. You and your friends can't do it, so no one can, right?

I didn't see any of the top 4 RockBand bands (from the leaderboards for RB 1) on the SpikeTV launch party using GH guitars, so they must not be competitive I guess.

I'm not one of the typical users on here who thinks that my every whim and opinion is gospel, but this point I really have to drive into the ground.  It isn't a matter of opinion, it isn't subjective.  The RB guitar just isn't as good as the GH guitar and due to its design it can never be utilized as well as the GH guitar when playing either game.

Like I said though, if you start out at the ground floor and judge them both you might go with the RB guitar, but I am telling you it will become readily apparent that the RB guitar just isn't up to snuff.

What exactly is your standard then for "up to snuff"? I think this is where we disagree, because there isn't anything you can do with the GH guitar that you can' do with the RB guitar--clickiness and throw distance of the strum bar is simply a matter of preference, not a blocker to performing any song in the game.

One of the "better RB guitarists swears by the GH guitar, and plays songs very well on expert--but I just found out recently that he doesn't know how to alt-strum, so even on the 240 beat per minute songs, he's only downstrumming (he beats the strum bar with his thumb). For his playstyle, of course he prefers the GH strum bar, because he is failing to use the guitar itself to it's full potential (either one). The tiny throw distance is mandatory for him, but I can do just as well strumming wise as he on an RB guitar with literally 1/2 the effort.

It is a matter of how the tool is built man. It is like saying, This mouse is exactly like that mouse, except one is a stock dell mouse and the other is some $100 logitech mouse. Sure they both do the same job, just one is clearly made to perform better and last longer. It is everything from weight, to button responsiveness, to how close the lower frets are to each other to, give on the strum bar Etc. That all matters, the GH guitar is just better.  You can do the job with a RB guitar, but if you chose that on some serious score attack run, it would  have specifically cause you are accustomed  to that controller alone, not cause it is better.

On that "better RB guitar player" thing. Not playing with alternate strumming makes you a scrub. You need to use the right techniques for the right sections. It doesn't matter if he is getting the notes, in certain songs he wont be able to hang like that. It is bad technique. Alt strumming needs to be used on certain songs, plain and simple.

[Xilren's Twin]

Gotta say, now that my Xbox has been repaired and I have had time to play GHWT with my usual batch of folks, I have to agree with some others in the thread: RB2 is a superior game than GHWT.  The new guitar controller is sweet, the songs are fine, but the user interface, the avatars and shop items, the rigid setlists, the stupid boss battles, etc... everything just feels a little off and it amounts to a bundle of small annoyances.  I think it was also a mistake for them to include songs that were already in RB2 as well; it further contributes to the game feeling "smaller" than it should.  There are 86 songs GWHT and close to 10 of them are also in RB2 so it feels more like 75; comparing that to what Im have right now in RB2: songs from RB1 (minus 4), RB2 itself, plus the ones I've downloaded.  Im up to over 175 songs  to choose from which gives RB2 that much wider appeal for songs people want to play.

It's pretty unanimous with the folks I play with: GWHT has some cool songs, but RB2 remains the game of choice for parties and such.  It's not a bad game by any stretch, I just think RB2 is better.  YMMV.