SWTOR

[amiable]

You don't need Raid gear unless you're Raiding. You want it a) because you know it exists; and, b) because you know it to be better. Being fine with +400 to Fire is never going to satisfy if you know you're "so close" to +450. Need here is a misnomer because technically, we don't need these games

c) you want to be competitive in PvP.

WoW has mitigated the problems with c quite a bit over the years (especially since I first played, I raided solely to get PvP gear, and man did that suck).  As long as you don't have PvP in the game or the disparity between raid gear and non-raid gear for PvP purposes is minimal then it is fine.  I remember being literally one-shotted by folks in Raid gear in WoW battlegrounds before BC came out and it was endlessly frustrating.

I think the system WoW has now is good PvP and PvE gear are on separate "tracks" and it is quite possible to solo to get high end PvP gear, but the best is reserved for the top-tiered teams (which creates in own problems of snowball effects and the "rich get richer")  To be honest I like EvE's approach the best, anyone can fly anything so long as they have the skills (which anyone can train for) and they have the cash (which anyone can earn).

For a pure PvE system (for example LOTRO...lol monsterplay) the raid tiering makes sense, and I was perfectly content with my solo/small group gear in LOTRO.

To loop this back to SWTOR, they are apparently setting up some form of PvP endgame, so they need to be cognizant of these concerns.

[Sky]

The way the content is split up is fine.

Yeah, it's true. I love not doing dungeons or having interesting encounters like gimmick raids. I love trying to finish off a quest line 10 levels after it greys out and still struggling with some of the mobs. IT'S FUCKING GREAT!

And then listening to people bitch about how RMT unbalances gameplay. 

[AutomaticZen]

The way the content is split up is fine.

Yeah, it's true. I love not doing dungeons or having interesting encounters like gimmick raids. I love trying to finish off a quest line 10 levels after it greys out and still struggling with some of the mobs. IT'S FUCKING GREAT!

Are 5-man dungeons really that much of a chore?  At least with Lich King, Blizzard did a decent job of making most of the 5-mans interesting, I'd think.  And there is the phasing quests, like Wrath Gate and the DK Starting Area.   I'm not sure what you're looking for.  Completely solo dungeons?

[Malakili]

The way the content is split up is fine.

Yeah, it's true. I love not doing dungeons or having interesting encounters like gimmick raids. I love trying to finish off a quest line 10 levels after it greys out and still struggling with some of the mobs. IT'S FUCKING GREAT!

Are 5-man dungeons really that much of a chore?  At least with Lich King, Blizzard did a decent job of making most of the 5-mans interesting, I'd think.  And there is the phasing quests, like Wrath Gate and the DK Starting Area.   I'm not sure what you're looking for.  Completely solo dungeons?

Sounds to me like he doesn't like the fact that some quest lines require a group (not instanced stuff even), and that if he wants to finish the quest lines he has to come back at a higher level, or not do them at all.  Personally, when I played WoW, I generally just skipped quest lines that weren't trivially easy, as it was less efficient for leveling.  But then again, when I played that game I was way into efficiency, spreadsheeting, optimization, etc.

[Sky]

What I'm looking for is to not have this conversation AGAIN. I only made an additional comment to be snarky to DQ, who's been in on the last hundred times we've talked about this.

Also, I've heard there are games other than WoW.

[SnakeCharmer]

All that's needed now is for someone to bring up SWG and twitch and NGE and sandbox.








Fuck.

[AutomaticZen]

Also, I've heard there are games other than WoW.

Eh.  A Diku MUD is a DikuMUD.  WoW just polishes the shit to a shine.

[Bunk]

Using WoW as an example, here's what I want:

I want my weenie little level 11 rogue to be able to get a full set of Defias gear without either: A) begging a buddy to twink me though multiple times, B) Having to run the dungeon with pickup groups only interested in doing it at 100 mph in the most optimum fashion, or C) having to pay 5 Gold each for FUCKING LEVEL 10 items!!!1! on the auction hall.

Why? Becuase it looked cool to run around in. And because the only way for a low level character to get matching gear in that game is to either run instances, or twink the hell out of tailoring.

[Merusk]

Also, I've heard there are games other than WoW.

Eh.  A Diku MUD is a DikuMUD.  WoW just polishes the shit to a shine.

Since he won't say it, I will. Sky's not talking about DikuMUDs.  He wants another UO, where you didn't have any of the ever-scaling items or only-doable-in-a-group dungeons.  Different game type entirely.

[Jobu]

Bioware is new to the MMO scene, but I have the utmost faith in that company.

You sonofa. You're gonna make me repeat myself again, aren't you? Just because you don't want to read the thread.

As retired gaming press, you should really be more informed.

Edit: Look, this is how it is, unfortunately. Right now, Bioware Austin is like a bunch of griefers who got their names changed in an MMOG to avoid being noticed on sight as griefers. Now, they may or may not have changed and they may or may not have gotten themselves together, but until they PROVE otherwise, they are not "new to the MMO scene" or deserving of any amount of "faith." Remember, people don't really change, companies even less so.

I just couldn't resist.

"No one's claming they expect god's gift to MMOGs out of them. You just have a lot of sand in your vagina. There's nothing wrong with WANTING a company to make something good. Because generally, when something fails, it kills that setting for other companies. The INDUSTRY should want them to do TSW SWTOR right, and so should you. So quit your bitching and go play some Peggle or something."

[schild]

I'm not sure anyone in the industry wants an MMOG made by the ex-SB  and SWG guys over the course of 3 years to do well. In fact, I'm pretty sure people just want them to stop making games. I know a lot of people that want them to stop. I'm also not entirely sure anyone IN the industry wants to see another Star Wars MMO succeed OR crash and burn. Quoting that bit is completely out of context compared to what I was saying. You should go play Peggle or something.

itt I mention I'd have preferred a Baldur's Gate MMOG.

[UnSub]

IMO, I'm happy for ex-anyone to make a good MMO. To show that they've learned the right lessons and applied them in their next title. I'm certainly not going to kick Wizard101 just because it has ex-SB people involved in it.

At the end I only care about it being fun. Hell, I'll be lining up to play John Romero's Marvel Universe Wars if it turns out to be fun.

[Ratman_tf]

Also, to me this isn't about solo content v. group content in an MMO and its relation to getting gear. To me SWTOR is about persistent world v. instanced gameplay.  Nothing I've seen about SWTOR so far leads me to believe this is going to be anything but a single player game with a co-op mode and a vs. mode..  That fine in itself, but say its an MMO and charge me 15 bucks a month, and suddenly i'm a lot less interested.

 

[DLRiley]

Also, to me this isn't about solo content v. group content in an MMO and its relation to getting gear. To me SWTOR is about persistent world v. instanced gameplay.  Nothing I've seen about SWTOR so far leads me to believe this is going to be anything but a single player game with a co-op mode and a vs. mode..  That fine in itself, but say its an MMO and charge me 15 bucks a month, and suddenly i'm a lot less interested.

 

Instance World of Warcraft at iits finest.

[Triforcer]

Refusing to play things because you have some idiosyncratic grudge against the guy doing terrain modeling because of bugs in other games from 10 years ago is retarded.  I'll play a game if it is fun, and if its fun I don't care if John Romero and Hitler's brain corroborated to make it.

[schild]

Refusing to play things because you have some idiosyncratic grudge against the guy doing terrain modeling because of bugs in other games from 10 years ago is retarded.  I'll play a game if it is fun, and if its fun I don't care if John Romero and Hitler's brain corroborated to make it.

This isn't about refusing to play something, this is about refusing to hype something (or in our case, letting the hype get out of hand).

[Malakili]

Refusing to play things because you have some idiosyncratic grudge against the guy doing terrain modeling because of bugs in other games from 10 years ago is retarded.  I'll play a game if it is fun, and if its fun I don't care if John Romero and Hitler's brain corroborated to make it.

This isn't about refusing to play something, this is about refusing to hype something (or in our case, letting the hype get out of hand).

Agreed.  For all my bitching, I might give this game a shot if it looks somewhat fun.  It has the structure of MMOs that have historically not kept me interested past a month or two though, which is why I wish these sorts of things would not be MMOs.  I want to play them long term, not pay 80 bucks for 2 months of a game.  When you play long term, the initial 50 bucks for the game seems like less and less, but if you aren't going to play it for a long time, its a fair amount of money for not all that much time.

In any event, has anyone gone on the SWTOR forums lately?  What a clusterfuck.

[justdave]

Instance World of Warcraft at iits finest.

Hey, I understand that axe needs grinding, but don't piss away a perfectly good joke for it!

[Triforcer]

Refusing to play things because you have some idiosyncratic grudge against the guy doing terrain modeling because of bugs in other games from 10 years ago is retarded.  I'll play a game if it is fun, and if its fun I don't care if John Romero and Hitler's brain corroborated to make it.

This isn't about refusing to play something, this is about refusing to hype something (or in our case, letting the hype get out of hand).

Well, I understand that.  And I understand not buying something until good reviews come out if you were burned by the producer/developer/etc.'s past work.  I was just addressing the tendency to reflexively dismiss certain things with no analysis whatsoever if it comes from a certain source. 

[schild]

In any event, has anyone gone on the SWTOR forums lately?  What a clusterfuck.

Does this shock you?

Well, I understand that.  And I understand not buying something until good reviews come out if you were burned by the producer/developer/etc.'s past work.  I was just addressing the tendency to reflexively dismiss certain things with no analysis whatsoever if it comes from a certain source.

It doesn't need analysis. We'll judge the final product and prove right or wrong. Why worry about analyzing anything said before release? It's either cool or it isn't, it means nothing when it comes to the final game. Same goes for TSW, Black Prophecy, etc. etc.

[UnSub]

In any event, has anyone gone on the SWTOR forums lately?  What a clusterfuck.

For those of us who haven't, how so (not that I'm surprised)?

[Lucas]

In any event, has anyone gone on the SWTOR forums lately?  What a clusterfuck.

For those of us who haven't, how so (not that I'm surprised)?

They remind me of the SWG pre-release boards (and many other pre-release boards, ok). Err, need I say more?   

[Lantyssa]

I liked the SWG pre-release boards...

[Malakili]

In any event, has anyone gone on the SWTOR forums lately?  What a clusterfuck.

For those of us who haven't, how so (not that I'm surprised)?

Its essentially a constant flame war between people who think a KOTOR MMO is the greatest thing in history and that bioware can do no wrong and people who want the game to be pre-NGE Galaxies. 

[Ratman_tf]

Its essentially a constant flame war between people who think a KOTOR MMO is the greatest thing in history and that bioware can do no wrong and people who want the game to be pre-NGE Galaxies. 

SOE's legacy to MMOGs is the eternal flame of the NGE argument. 

[koro]

itt I mention I'd have preferred a Baldur's Gate MMOG.

I would've been just dandy with a Jade Empire MMO instead.

[VainEldritch]

I liked the SWG pre-release boards...

Yup that was pretty awesome... but the immediate post-NGE boards were the biggest flame-fest I've ever witnessed on any boards. Glad I was there, really.

[Miguel]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  they should have just acquired and re-skinned Planetside with Rebellion, Empire, and Bounty Hunter factions.  Reaver? You are now an X-wing figther.  AI Max? You are a Dark Trooper now!  Cloaker?  You are a Jedi.  BFR? Imperial Walker.  Rinse, repeat...success!

Forget the unfolding story-line:  people really just want to slice each other up with light sabers and blow shit up with heavy equipment. ;)

[Sky]

That's change I can believe in.

[Hindenburg]

Ahm, Star Wars: Battlefront with a monthly fee?

[Miguel]

Ahm, Star Wars: Battlefront with a monthly fee?

Well, SW: B with > than 32 players, and (hopefully) better balance (assuming Lucasarts wasn't in charge of said balancing).

 

[Sky]

And a larger persistent world.

[Ratman_tf]

And a larger persistent world.

And puppies!

[Merusk]

I liked the SWG pre-release boards...

Man, I hated the pre-release SWG boards.  There was this asshole named Triforce or something like that... always going on and on about pvp.. and ragging on this poor girl named Callista or sommat.  If only some white knights had come to her defense!

 

[schild]

Guys. Let's lay the cards on the table, because why not.

I applied for the Bioware job.

I got through a number of interviews. (3 I think).

I applied on a lark and had sent them a resume that was absolutely fucking insane (anyone who has seen it can attest to it), it's like Pandemonium in paper form.

I told them that what is happening is EXACTLY what would happen if X got the job. X being all but about 3 people who I knew in the CRM circle. And it's a small circle.

I told them what software to use (because what they ended up using, is, well, SHIT) and how to go about dealing with all of this.

We know who got the job. We know what happened afterwards. This is all exactly as I said in the interview.  We can talk about me being a dick and burning bridges til the cows come home, but the writing is on the wall over there. I'm not omniscient, it was just bloody obvious the moment I saw a fanfiction forum where this was headed - straight down the path I laid out. A road littered with no intentions and no idea of how to manage that god-forsaken community (I love that community, but calling it anything other than god-forsaken is a misnomer).

This is a case of reaping what they sow.

Edit: tl;dr - You can blame this entire clusterfuck on nepotism. Much like nearly every other clusterfuck in the industry.